Must Separate.

[aspen]

Christians and the Christian right, must understand, that we cannot exist with the athiestic left. Trump is finding that out in not being able to do what he wants to do. We must forgo this so-called idea of being 'united'. We are not united. The good and the evil divide us. We are divided. We must recognize it and try and separate for the good of our people. Our people being the God fearing Christians. The 'United states' is over, it is done. We haven't been united since 1865.

Both groups, the left and the right, need to acknowledge this and allow for secession so as to maintain the peace. Give each state a place it wants to go. And then honor that.

Our country, the US, is an embarrassment, because it is built on the facade of unity. And there is no unity.

Stranger

In order to hold this view, one must ignore the evil on parade within the Republican platform . It is a misuse of dualism to employ black and white thinking in politics

 

[ScottA]

No need to make anyone go where they don't want. If a nation wants to remain without God, then they can. But there needs to be a nation whose God is God and Christ. Your only alternative is to let the nation go and be a nation without God.

We don't "need to be a nation"...we are a body.

Well, the division of the sheep and goat nations is by geography. And, it was done solely on the basis of how a people believed God concerning the Jews during the tribulation. So, God is much concerned over a people allowing their nation to become an unGodly nation.

Stranger

Perhaps the geographic "nation under God" analogy is not working - perhaps it would be better to remember that we are (intentionally) "wheat among the tares."

"He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11

 

[Stranger]

In order to hold this view, one must ignore the evil on parade within the Republican platform . It is a misuse of dualism to employ black and white thinking in politics

There is evil all around. I don't believe I ever said anything about the 'republican platform'. Thus, no dualism.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

We don't "need to be a nation"...we are a body.

Perhaps the geographic "nation under God" analogy is not working - perhaps it would be better to remember that we are (intentionally) "wheat among the tares."

"He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11

If we don't need to be a Christian nation, then why did God create it? Did He make a mistake? Or is the mistake ours in thinking we should keep it that way?

Though Christians are wheat among the tares, doesn't mean God did not create the U.S. as a Christian nation.

Why quote (Rev.22:11)? What is that supposed to mean concerning what has been said? Turn your head and look the other way?

Stranger

 

[aspen]

There is evil all around. I don't believe I ever said anything about the 'republican platform'. Thus, no dualism.

Stranger

So, I am misunderstanding the OP? Your statement, "Trump is finding that [evil] out in not being able to do what he wants" seems to support the idea that his agenda is good and the opposition is evil......since Trumps executive orders and attempts at pushing through laws are shared by Republicans and he ran on the republican ticket......it suggests that republicans are good and democrats are evil. If my understanding needs correcting let me know; as it stands right now, your OP is promoting dualism

 

[Stranger]

So, I am misunderstanding the OP? Your statement, "Trump is finding that [evil] out in not being able to do what he wants" seems to support the idea that his agenda is good and the opposition is evil......since Trumps executive orders and attempts at pushing through laws are shared by Republicans and he ran on the republican ticket......it suggests that republicans are good and democrats are evil. If my understanding needs correcting let me know; as it stands right now, your OP is promoting dualism

Is there good and evil?

Stranger

 

[aspen]

There is Good. Evil is not a force or an opposite of goodness......it is merely an incomplete or misuse of goodness

 

[Stranger]

There is Good. Evil is not a force or an opposite of goodness......it is merely an incomplete or misuse of goodness

Who says?

Stranger

 

[aspen]

Augustine, actually

 

[Stranger]

Augustine, actually

(Gen.2:9) "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Stranger

 

[aspen]

(Gen.2:9) "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Stranger

Indeed. The Tree of Dualistic Thinking - the Tree that sidetracked humanity from our primary purpose, which is to love. Now, we are cursed to randomly label God's Good Creation 'good' (a benefit to ourselves) or 'evil' (harmful to our self interest). We are cursed to forsake loving others and instead misuse God's Good Creation to satisfy our false self. There is good reason Jesus told the Pharisees they had no idea what is good because only God knows Good. We need Jesus in order to get back to loving others.

 

[ScottA]

If we don't need to be a Christian nation, then why did God create it? Did He make a mistake? Or is the mistake ours in thinking we should keep it that way?

Though Christians are wheat among the tares, doesn't mean God did not create the U.S. as a Christian nation.

Why quote (Rev.22:11)? What is that supposed to mean concerning what has been said? Turn your head and look the other way?

Stranger

No...the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Like your own question, then... Why did God send Jesus to his own who did not receive him? The answer is, being wrong about Jesus was and is not, a death sentence...a shame and a sin, yes, but not unto death. Those who "believed" in his coming, simply did not recognize him.

But that was then, this is now. Now the light has come into the world in the form of the Holy Spirit, and the harvest is on in spite of there being tares among the wheat. So, your question would have to more appropriately be modified to ask: Why did God create the tares if he really wanted wheat? And here, the answer is that both are harvested in one harvest, some unto life everlasting, and some unto death.

So, then, it is the notion of us needing to be a nation, that is not accurate for our time. These are not the times of the nation...but the times of the nations (plural) - meaning the gentiles. There is no need for a nation to lead in service to God. That time passed with Christ being "the Last" of those born under the old covenant. That is why I quote Revelations. This is not the time for what you suggest.

But don't misunderstand me. Your instincts are correct...it's just not the time yet for such a divide. That only comes in the judgement, the end of times. During the entire history of the world, we shall not see such a divide (for and against God). But rather, it is personal, "each in his own order" (in his own time).

This is the time of nation rising against nation, and wars and rumors of wars - but not of dividing, as in the judgement... Meaning, that if such a separation came, it would accomplish nothing of what you hope. Our hope, rather, is in continuing to shine our Light into this darkness...not separate the light from the darkness. That can only be done by God.

 

[Stranger]

Indeed. The Tree of Dualistic Thinking - the Tree that sidetracked humanity from our primary purpose, which is to love. Now, we are cursed to randomly label God's Good Creation 'good' (a benefit to ourselves) or 'evil' (harmful to our self interest). We are cursed to forsake loving others and instead misuse God's Good Creation to satisfy our false self. There is good reason Jesus told the Pharisees they had no idea what is good because only God knows Good. We need Jesus in order to get back to loving others.

So, you blame God for planting the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

God is the one who said it. Not me. And you are upset.

Much else of what you say makes no sense. Who said our primary purpose is to love?

You fail to show that there is no good and evil. And that is what you were trying to say when you said evil is just the absence of good. Thus your claim of dualism is really immaterial.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

No...the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Like your own question, then... Why did God send Jesus to his own who did not receive him? The answer is, being wrong about Jesus was and is not, a death sentence...a shame and a sin, yes, but not unto death. Those who "believed" in his coming, simply did not recognize him.

But that was then, this is now. Now the light has come into the world in the form of the Holy Spirit, and the harvest is on in spite of there being tares among the wheat. So, your question would have to more appropriately be modified to ask: Why did God create the tares if he really wanted wheat? And here, the answer is that both are harvested in one harvest, some unto life everlasting, and some unto death.

So, then, it is the notion of us needing to be a nation, that is not accurate for our time. These are not the times of the nation...but the times of the nations (plural) - meaning the gentiles. There is no need for a nation to lead in service to God. That time passed with Christ being "the Last" of those born under the old covenant. That is why I quote Revelations. This is not the time for what you suggest.

But don't misunderstand me. Your instincts are correct...it's just not the time yet for such a divide. That only comes in the judgement, the end of times. During the entire history of the world, we shall not see such a divide (for and against God). But rather, it is personal, "each in his own order" (in his own time).

This is the time of nation rising against nation, and wars and rumors of wars - but not of dividing, as in the judgement... Meaning, that if such a separation came, it would accomplish nothing of what you hope. Our hope, rather, is in continuing to shine our Light into this darkness...not separate the light from the darkness. That can only be done by God.

Apparently you can't answer the questions.

Quit with this pseudo spiritual speak, and answer, if we don't need to be a Christian nation, then why did God create it? Did He make a mistake? Or is the mistake ours in that we should keep it that way?

There are always going to be wheat and tares, so what? I'm saying there needs to be the political body that is favorable if not Christian, for Christians to live under.

Christians will be a light shining out of darkness no matter if they are in a Christian nation or not.

Quit telling me my instincts are correct when you don't believe it. I do not need your approval. Especially when you are wrong in what you are saying.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

So, you blame God for planting the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

God is the one who said it. Not me. And you are upset.

Much else of what you say makes no sense. Who said our primary purpose is to love?

You fail to show that there is no good and evil. And that is what you were trying to say when you said evil is just the absence of good. Thus your claim of dualism is really immaterial.

Stranger

I am not blaming anyone. I am providing an interpretation of the fall of humanity. The Tree was not magic - it taught us nothing. Adam and Eve misused it. The very act of eating from it was a misuse of creation. We have continued to misuse Creation for our own gratification, ever since.

Not sure how you have determined I am upset. Actually, I am enjoying the conversation.

I am sorry you are not understanding what I am writing.

As far as proving there is no good or evil......it is a strawman. I have defined good as God's Creation and Evil as humanities misuse of God's Creation. Evil has the same relationship to Good as Cold does to Heat. Heat is energy.....cold is a lack of energy.

Jesus told us that our primary purpose is to love God and love our neighbor

 

[Stranger]

I am not blaming anyone. I am providing an interpretation of the fall of humanity. The Tree was not magic - it taught us nothing. Adam and Eve misused it. The very act of eating from it was a misuse of creation. We have continued to misuse Creation for our own gratification, ever since.

Not sure how you have determined I am upset. Actually, I am enjoying the conversation.

I am sorry you are not understanding what I am writing.

As far as proving there is no good or evil......it is a strawman. I have defined good as God's Creation and Evil as humanities misuse of God's Creation. Evil has the same relationship to Good as Cold does to Heat. Heat is energy.....cold is a lack of energy.

The tree taught that there was the knowledge of good and evil. And that is what you said didn't exist. Remember? Proves you are wrong. There is good and evil.

You said the tree sidetracked humanity and now we are cursed. Again, you are in error. The tree didn't sidetrack humanity. Satan, Eve, and Adam, sidetracked humanity. Nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So your error indicates you are upset.

But, we are not talking about cold and heat. We are talking about good and evil. And Scripture is clear. Yet you are foggy. And, I understand perfectly what you are saying. And I have showed you that Scripture is against what you are saying.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

Apparently you can't answer the questions.

Quit with this pseudo spiritual speak, and answer, if we don't need to be a Christian nation, then why did God create it? Did He make a mistake? Or is the mistake ours in that we should keep it that way?

There are always going to be wheat and tares, so what? I'm saying there needs to be the political body that is favorable if not Christian, for Christians to live under.

Christians will be a light shining out of darkness no matter if they are in a Christian nation or not.

Quit telling me my instincts are correct when you don't believe it. I do not need your approval. Especially when you are wrong in what you are saying.

Stranger

I guess you missed it. The answer is, God did not create America to be a godly nation, any more than he created Israel to receive him when he came. The point being...he did just the opposite. A reality you don't seem to be grasping.

There is no mistake in God making America the way he has. Nor is there a mistake in keeping it Christian. The mistake is, to think that we need to do any such thing to fulfill God's will.

A Christian favoring nation would be nice.

As for your instincts, I am not against what you are saying, but for it. I'm just being honest. But you are wrong about your idea of us needing a Christian nation being any need of God's - it's not. He has already overcome the world. All we are seeing now, is just what he said: "nation rising up against nation."

 

[aspen]

The tree taught that there was the knowledge of good and evil. And that is what you said didn't exist. Remember? Proves you are wrong. There is good and evil.

You said the tree sidetracked humanity and now we are cursed. Again, you are in error. The tree didn't sidetrack humanity. Satan, Eve, and Adam, sidetracked humanity. Nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So your error indicates you are upset.

But, we are not talking about cold and heat. We are talking about good and evil. And Scripture is clear. Yet you are foggy. And, I understand perfectly what you are saying. And I have showed you that Scripture is against what you are saying.

Stranger

My words are clear and my posts speak for themselves. We simply disagree.

I ceased getting upset about errors a long time ago.

Thanks for the conversation

 

[aspen]

Actually, I have one more question for anyone who is interested.....

Why did we have to know the difference between Good and Evil if we lived in a perfect relationship with God?

 

[ScottA]

Actually, I have one more question for anyone who is interested.....

Why did we have to know the difference between Good and Evil if we lived in a perfect relationship with God?

Sorry, I have not been following along with your part of the thread, and that's a big "if"...

We didn't live in a perfect relationship with God. We only need to know the difference between good and evil if we intend to change.