My Agnostic friend asks: "Does anyone believe in God before they 'need' him?"

[Ziggy]

My dad used to play a record when I was very young. Jesus Loves me.
Jesus loves me this I know, because the bible tells me so.
My parents weren't religious. We didn't talk about God.
My family was somewhat violent. 2 brothers always fighting, parents always fighting.
I was always looking for a way to be a peacemaker. Ofcourse being the youngest no one paid much attention.
I don't remember when the "realization" of God entered my life. I've had a lot of low points in my life and for some reason that song was always present.
I was baptised when I was 17. Went to church and heard all about fire and damnation. Some years after I took a correspondence course through the mail with the Church of God by Armstrong. They were sabbath keepers and very much into prophecy.
I have always loved trying to figure out parables and riddles. It caught my attention.
God has always been in my life but I don't think I knew him like I do today.
I'll be 58 soon and it's been an interesting journey.
And I still hear the song in my heart...
And this I know not just because the bible tells me so. I just know.
New version... I like it.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Perhaps we should deconstruct the question to address the built-in presumptions about God.

My Agnostic friend asks: "Does anyone believe in God before they 'need' him?"​

I just went back to find the email with the exact quote of the offered question. Here it is below.

"Ok, Q for you for the forum.

Do you have to have a “need” to believe in God before you “can” believe in him?"

I believe everyone needs God, we just don't know it until he reveals himself to us.
Sometimes you have to hit the bottom of the barrel before you're willing to reach out for help.
Others may already have their heart inclined to believe.
As the saying goes: God works in mysterious ways.
He meets you wherever you are in your life when He knows it will have the greatest impact on your life.
Sometimes even as simple as a song.

Hugs

 

[dev553344]

Thanks for your post.
Can you explain what it means to be "baptized into the church" and have the "Holy Spirit communion"?

I was raised in a church setting and was properly baptized at age 8. Then afterwards the priests laid their hands on my head and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to members as part of the comforter of God.

I didn't really know too much about God before that. But we get to know him when he talks to us thru the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

Then afterwards the priests laid their hands on my head and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to members as part of the comforter of God.

Thanks.
I have heard some refer to that as Chrismation.

I have a Charismatic/Pentecostal background, though raised evangelical.
Evangelicalism, in general, doesn't accept the idea of the Holy Spirit given as a subsequent experience. (sacrament)

In the world of Charismatic/Pentecostalism we call it the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. And encourage tongue-speaking as an evidence.
Although I would add ANY manifestation of a spiritual gift as evidence. See first Corinthians chapter twelve for thew full list.

 

[Ziggy]

1Co 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Edifying:
The act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness
οἰκοδομή oikodomḗ, oy-kod-om-ay'; feminine (abstract) of a compound of G3624 and the base of G1430; architecture, i.e. (concretely) a structure; figuratively, confirmation:—building, edify(-ication, -ing).

Ecc 10:18
By much slothfulness the building decayeth; and through idleness of the hands the house droppeth through.

I think there are a lot of Agnostics in the world today because the structure of the building is in want and need of edification.
Sometimes we put more energy into tearing things down (just to be right) than using that same energy to make each other stronger.
And if one on the outside is looking in, where there is already much anger and strife and suffering,
What solace or comfort do they believe they would find in a building that is leaking in the roof, holes in the walls, plumbing with no water, and a very unstable foundation?

Some people require a miracle to believe. But it's not always sustainable. Because over time they can forget or question if what they saw was real. Like the seed sown upon rocky ground. It has nothing substantial and lasting to root into.

This building or church needs more care, so those on the outside looking in have a desire to enter.
And Love is the greatest spiritual gift of all.
We should share this gift more often.

Just thinking

Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

Sometimes we put more energy into tearing things down (just to be right) than using that same energy to make each other stronger.

Exactly.
I apply this to everyone, whether they are a believer, or not.
There is already too much negativity in the world.
I want to fuel the solution, not the problem.

Build bridges, not walls.

 

[St. SteVen]

I had further discussion on this with my agnostic friend yesterday.

I posited that a person doesn't suddenly believe in a God they never knew of before when their "need" arises.
A "need" being defined as a life event that drives a person to seek divine help.

Seems to me that in that situation a person reaches for something they trust for help.
A person with a Christian upbringing, or with some knowledge of Christianity, will reach out to God.
Someone raised in another religion or culture would reach out to what they trust.

The other issue I raised with my friend was about definitions.
What did he mean by "believe"? What did he mean by "God"? What did he mean by "need"?
He has a completely different view of these things than I did.

 

[St. SteVen]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

 

[Ziggy]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

God is calling.

Hugs

 

[Deborah_]

"Does anyone believe in God before they 'need' him?"​

I did.

How old were you?
Were you raised in the church?
Or, who introduced you to God, or the gospel?

I was 17, and I had grown up in a religiously apathetic/atheistic family. My only Bible knowledge was what I had gleaned from school RE lessons (which wasn't very helpful).
I had no personal interest in religion, but I had a modern version of the New Testament on my bookshelf, and one day I was desperately bored and needed something to read to pass the time. The only book I had that I didn't already know almost by heart was that NT, so I picked it off the shelf and started reading it. About an hour later (in the middle of Matthews Gospel), I had a sudden overwhelming sensation of the presence and love of God - and I was immediately hooked.

 

[Lambano]

 

[St. SteVen]

I was 17, and I had grown up in a religiously apathetic/atheistic family. My only Bible knowledge was what I had gleaned from school RE lessons (which wasn't very helpful).
I had no personal interest in religion, but I had a modern version of the New Testament on my bookshelf, and one day I was desperately bored and needed something to read to pass the time. The only book I had that I didn't already know almost by heart was that NT, so I picked it off the shelf and started reading it. About an hour later (in the middle of Matthews Gospel), I had a sudden overwhelming sensation of the presence and love of God - and I was immediately hooked.

Awesome testimony, thanks.
Yesterday I heard a testimony (like yours) of the presence of God showing up in person to draw someone in.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

There's more to the story about the invitations.

My friend's wife is a Christian non-attender. (doesn't go to church anymore)
My Easter invitation to them (through him) was due to my Pastor asking us to invite people.
The other two invitations were divine appointments with his wife.

Both divine appointments came with a prophetic word of knowledge/wisdom for her.
And concluded with an invitation to church and assurances that their church
is not like the ones she had a problem with in the past.

Imagine my amazement as my agnostic friend shared these encounters with me.
He remembered exactly what his wife had reported to him. I think this had quite an impact on them.

- Three invitations in two days.
- Two divine encounters.
- Two prophetic words of wisdom/direction.

They accepted my Easter invitation.
I encouraged them to visit the other churches at some point as well.

Thanks to everyone who has already offered prayers.
Let's pray for what is next for this couple.
Hopefully an encounter with the loving presence of God.

/

 

[Behold]

Interesting question. How would you answer?

I'll tell you how I responded when we get to page two of this topic.

If I can wait until then. - LOL

Every unbeliever needs Jesus, whether they believe in Him or not.

Everyone Needs The Lord.

Even if you set aside the fact that you can't go to Heaven without Him in you....

Just the fact that there is no HOPE for anyone, in this world, without Him, as He is HOPE, itself.

Unbelievers have no HOPE in this world,........while all born again Believers are eternally joined to The Holy Risen One who Himself is HOPE.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic. Link below.

Is the Good News actual news? - No longer news to most

/

 

[Jack]

Tough question, but Christians realized without God they have ZERO!

 

[lforrest]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

Gets em thinking.

 

[Pearl]

I've always believed in God but I haven't always been a Christian.

 

[lforrest]

When I think of belief, there are levels. Like I can believe God exists. And that was the state I was in growing up going to church on Sunday. I held a fear of dying without being baptized but it wasn't substantial.

Then I heard the gospel of Jesus and believed in his redemptive work on the cross. That belief was deeper, a confidence that can only be from knowing with certainly and not with confusion that normally plagues my mind concerning something new. This was confirmed by the imparting of the Holy Spirit, which had immediate and noticable effects on the state of my soul. The gospel presents us with our need for a savior due to sin. It also tells us who that saviour is.

Superficial belief turns into trust.

 

[Pearl]

When I think of belief, there are levels. Like I can believe God exists. And that was the state I was in growing up going to church on Sunday. I held a fear of dying without being baptized but it wasn't substantial.

Then I heard the gospel of Jesus and believed in his redemptive work on the cross. That belief was deeper, a confidence that can only be from knowing with certainly and not with confusion that normally plagues my mind concerning something new. This was confirmed by the imparting of the Holy Spirit, which had immediate and noticable effects on the state of my soul. The gospel presents us with our need for a savior due to sin. It also tells us who that saviour is.

Superficial belief turns into trust.

Also my experience but I couldn't have said it better.