My agnostic friend says: "I don't need it." - How would you respond?

[Wrangler]

My agnostic friend acknowledges that some people need something, like religion, to help them get along in life.
He considers himself to be in the group that doesn't need something, like religion, to help him get along in life.

how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?

Some people are called and some are not.

I'd plant a seed then quickly shake off the dust from my feet.

The seed planting would be to ask if he ever feels empty, inside? Does he ever wonder if this material world is all there is? Does he ever consider helping those less fortunate than himself?

 

[Wrangler]

saw a Christian forum topic some time back that asked the question:
If there were no afterlife, would you still follow Jesus?

I was shocked that the overwhelming majority of respondents said "No!"
Which I interpreted to mean that they saw NO VALUE in following Jesus in the here and now.
I was ill at the thought. And argued for the value.

Odd because Paul agrees that is there was no after life, Christ followers are worse off.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

My agnostic friend acknowledges that some people need something, like religion, to help them get along in life.
He considers himself to be in the group that doesn't need something, like religion, to help him get along in life.

I think this is his polite way of saying, crutches are fine for those who need them, but he doesn't need one.
Ironically, he walks using a cane. - LOL

Humor aside, how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?
Or, more to the point, why does he need a relationship with God? Remember, he is agnostic,
so appeals to the existence of God and the reliability of the Bible have little bearing.

He was raised Lutheran, baptized and confirmed in the church.
Stopped going to church at some point. Married a Catholic woman that was also estranged from the church.
Which ended in a nasty divorce which nearly destroyed my friend. I have been an important support for him.
He is now remarried to a Protestant Christian who is also estranged from the church, but has a relationship with God.

/ cc: @ChristisGod @mailmandan @Lizbeth @quietthinker @amadeus @David in NJ @Hillsage @Lambano @Peterlag @marks @1stCenturyLady @St. SteVen

There is a need for God in everyone's life.
>> People just can't identify it.<<

Point out that there is a void in us that can't be filled with anything on earth. I am sure he is working on filling that void, it's that something that is missing. He can't figure it out. Typically these folks aren't the happiest, they lack joy and peace and are also dissatisfied in another areas.
They typically go down the list and work on getting the things that they think will make them happy. "If I get that job ...", "make this much money ...", "buy this house ...", "marry a beautiful woman ...", "start a family ...", "complete my bucket list"... then I will be happy". But when they finally get those things, still something is missing. So explain that those things are wants and needs but in the end don't fully satisfy. God made us this way, with this emptiness/hunger and yearning desire for a relationship with Him, unbeknownst to us -- that we just aren't able to get our hands on.
Some will tell you they are happy and fulfilled just to argue and disprove your assumption - but they aren't being honest.
Solomon wrote that under the sun, life is "vanity of vanities and chasing after the wind without God in our lives". He did it all and none of it satisfied him. 700 wife's didn't. He was the richest man who ever lived and had everything he could dream of, still all pursuits came up with the same void. Well, he gained wisdom from it - to pass it on to us.
The pursuit of happiness is a long road leading to a dead end without God.

The need for God may not be so pressing now, but typically when people are close to death, they wonder what it all meant, what was their purpose? To leave something behind for the next generation? They don't care, they forget their history and are always looking for the next new trend.
Close to death, a need for God will surely come, not to get through life, but to get through death!
But death comes unannounced sometimes, suddenly. Hopefully for his sake he will realize his need.
My brother is an atheist, stubborn and pushing 70 years old. I always thought the only way he would bow a knee to God is if he experienced the Great Tribulation, saw Jesus descending on a cloud and enacting judgment. It may be too late to make a decision at that time?

 

[St. SteVen]

My brother is an atheist, stubborn and pushing 70 years old. I always thought the only way he would bow a knee to God is if he experienced the Great Tribulation, saw Jesus descending on a cloud and enacting judgment.

Yes, makes you wonder what it will take for some.

It may be too late to make a decision at that time?

That's an interesting question.
We know that we can't come to God unless the Spirit draws us.
With some that may not be until the afterlife. (ultimate Redemption)

/

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes, make you wonder what it will take for some.


That's an interesting question.
We know that we can't come to God unless the Spirit draws us.
With some that may not be until the afterlife. (ultimate Redemption)

/

There is no second chance opportunity after death! Your fate is fixed. You either believe in Jesus or not. Obviously if someone died and found themselves in Hades, they would change their tune, but it is too late. Jesus tells you a true story ( not a parable) of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. We have this life to make a decision. And yes God draws all men to Himself - but some resist and reject Him even to their death.
We are saved by grace though faith _ in this life. When death comes, it's either an open door to Heaven or Hades. There is no Purgatory ... but if you are a Catholic, well ... no sense in arguing about that.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no second chance opportunity after death! Your fate is fixed. You either believe in Jesus or not.

That assumes that everyone had a chance. Is that true?

In my view, nothing is left to chance. Ultimate Redemption. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess...

/

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That assumes that everyone had a chance. Is that true?

In my view, nothing is left to chance. Ultimate Redemption. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess...

/

Well the Bible says that God draws all men to Himself. That implies that some must resist and reject Him.

By chance I meant opportunity. Every knee will bow means all who believed, all who were saved.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3:18

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36


I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins. John 8:24


Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16


But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12


If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. John 15:6

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matt. 7:13-14

 

[Jack]

1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

 

[Rockerduck]

Take the science approach and tell your agnostic friend to prove you wrong. Tell him God created him different from anybody who ever lived. Then tell him that he can be identified by any part of his body. His voice, iris, face, teeth, nose, ears, hands, feet, hair, chin, elbows, dna, and I mean every part is identifiable only to him and not only him, everyone that has ever lived. Explain that, because only an infinite God could accomplish this and Jesus was the author.

 

[St. SteVen]

Take the science approach and tell your agnostic friend to prove you wrong.

Thanks for your post.

I think he would apply the same principle as agnosticism to science as well.
We can't know for sure. Nothing can be proved either way. Which is true.
Hard to argue with that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is why faith is required, in BOTH science and religion.

Tell him God created him different from anybody who ever lived. Then tell him that he can be identified by any part of his body. His voice, iris, face, teeth, nose, ears, hands, feet, hair, chin, elbows, dna, and I mean every part is identifiable only to him and not only him, everyone that has ever lived. Explain that, because only an infinite God could accomplish this and Jesus was the author.

That makes total sense to you and I. My friend puts his faith in science.

/

 

[amigo de christo]

I would just say "Okay" and continue on with life. If times occurred of sharing and allowance of sharing things pertaining to the bible, then so be it.

What did the apostels say and do to those who refused to follow Christ .
Exactly what JESUS had told them to do . shake the dust off as testimony against them and MOVE ON .
Jesus never told his desciples , OH if they refuse me , JUST FIND COMMON GROUND and GET ALONG ANWAY .
MOVE ON and shake the dust off those feet , it will be worse for even them than it was for sodom on the day of judgemnt .
And i sure seemed to notice paul and others DID just that . just a friendly reminder .

 

[Berserk]

Other than prayer, the only hope is the right what if game.
What would it take to ignite a burning spiritual quest in your friend?
Ask your agnostic friend questions like these:
(1) What if you could be convinced by the paranormal evidence of NDEs that they contain authentic contact with life beyond death?
(2) What if someone you know experienced a healing miracle through prayer?
(3) What if you could be convinced that Jesus' resurrection can be connected with eyewitness testimony?
Using questions like these, I have seen intelligent unbelievers on chat boards either become Christians or become obsessed with spiritual questions in a way that had never been the case previously.

 

[Jack]

My agnostic friend acknowledges that some people need something, like religion, to help them get along in life.
He considers himself to be in the group that doesn't need something, like religion, to help him get along in life.

I think this is his polite way of saying, crutches are fine for those who need them, but he doesn't need one.
Ironically, he walks using a cane. - LOL

Humor aside, how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?
Or, more to the point, why does he need a relationship with God? Remember, he is agnostic,
so appeals to the existence of God and the reliability of the Bible have little bearing.

He was raised Lutheran, baptized and confirmed in the church.
Stopped going to church at some point. Married a Catholic woman that was also estranged from the church.
Which ended in a nasty divorce which nearly destroyed my friend. I have been an important support for him.
He is now remarried to a Protestant Christian who is also estranged from the church, but has a relationship with God.

/ cc: @ChristisGod @mailmandan @Lizbeth @quietthinker @amadeus @David in NJ @Hillsage @Lambano @Peterlag @marks @1stCenturyLady @St. SteVen

Does God answer your prayers? Pray for them!

 

[Lambano]

Does God answer your prayers? Pray for them!

One of my favorite verses:

15 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Why are you crying out to Me? Tell the sons of Israel to go forward! (Exodus 14:15)​

Meaning, there is a time to pray, and a time to move forward in faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

One of my favorite verses:

15 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Why are you crying out to Me? Tell the sons of Israel to go forward! (Exodus 14:15)​

Meaning, there is a time to pray, and a time to move forward in faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic. (shameless promotion)

Thoughts on Invocation and Benediction

Recent discussions on the forum got me to thinking about this. I was a bit bothered by the use of Matthew 18:20 as either an apologetic, or invocation. "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20 NIV The problem being contextual. Not what Matthew 18:18-20...

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/

 

[amigo de christo]

An Agnostic is different from an atheist. Among atheists there are strong atheists,those who are certain no thing like a god exists due to lack of evidence. While weak atheists,so called,are much like A gnostics. They don't believe there to be a god however,they are open to proof there is.

For the OP question,why argue with the Agnostic? When life isn't providing proof of a power higher than their consciousness,what means is available to convince them? Only God calls them out of their autotheism. (seeing self as god)

An agnostic , an atheist , a buddist , a muslim , a hindu and those of other religoins have one thing in common .
THEY FOLLOW THE DEVIL NOT GOD . Just wanted to remind us about this .
TRUTH is all who believe not that JESUS is the CHRIST , well they are still in the darkness .
Just wanted to remind us of this . In other words its time to preach JESUS CHRIST .
New age though even it uses the name of JESUS is still of the devil .
SO do beware that even many within the realm of what is known as christendom , can still preach another jesus
and thus still do the the work of the dragon . YES my friend , i do keep things very real , very clear , very black and white .
EITHER WE LOVE JESUS CHRIST and thus we LOVE GOD , or we DONT and are in darkness .

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 38204

Tell that to the overwhemling large number within the protestant realm and to the RCC . cause the car they try and steer
is wrecked in the ditch .

 

[amigo de christo]

Religion is frightening.

The concept of God is terrifying.

The idea of Someone knowing every thought in your head and emotion in your heart who will someday hold you accountable for every choice you make and judge you accordingly can be paralyzing.

There is a reason I never try to convert anyone.

Its too much responsibility for me, unless I feel strongly called to do it.

(Which I do not)

And yet PAUL knowing the TERROR OF GOD did all to PERSAUDE MEN , aka CONVERT MEN TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
can you imagine if paul had been so terrified that he had said nothing about JESUS CHRIST
or the other apostels . can you imagine what would have become of THE GOSPEL if they had NOT WITNESSED .
OH YEAH , NOTHING , the world would have been left in darkness . Exactly .
TIME WE PREACH THE DIRE NEED to believe on JESUS THE CHRIST and be reminding all , about ALL THINGS HE DID TEACH
and later the apostels did . PS , you cant CONVERT , nor CAN I , but what we can do IS SPEAK AND LIVE TRUTH
proclaim the gospel . LET GOD ADD who he ADDS . that is our duty , it is our call . WE cannot give the increase
but we CAN GIVE THE GOSPEL that can save .

 

[Space_Karen]

And yet PAUL knowing the TERROR OF GOD did all to PERSAUDE MEN , aka CONVERT MEN TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
can you imagine if paul had been so terrified that he had said nothing about JESUS CHRIST
or the other apostels . can you imagine what would have become of THE GOSPEL if they had NOT WITNESSED .
OH YEAH , NOTHING , the world would have been left in darkness . Exactly .
TIME WE PREACH THE DIRE NEED to believe on JESUS THE CHRIST and be reminding all , about ALL THINGS HE DID TEACH
and later the apostels did . PS , you cant CONVERT , nor CAN I , but what we can do IS SPEAK AND LIVE TRUTH
proclaim the gospel . LET GOD ADD who he ADDS . that is our duty , it is our call . WE cannot give the increase
but we CAN GIVE THE GOSPEL that can save .

If the goal is take action on things that do good for our fellow man and further God's will.

It may become pointless to preach the word in today's era where people have no love for truth and no appreciation or respect for wisdom.

Many today hate the Truth that is God, and love Lies that come from Satan the Father of Lies.

There is no good that can be done for them by sharing the Word.

Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

-Matthew 7:6