"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?

[Jim B]

Post #4 quoted below.

I don't use a paper and ink Bible.

What form of God's word could be thrown away? (put in the garbage) Paper and ink.

You have avoided the ACTUAL question. Are you ready to answer now?

"What would become of your faith if you put your library on the curb on trash day?"

(I'm not asking you to do that, but to consider whether you are a Bibliolator)

You're bragging that you don't use a paper and ink Bible? Or an electronic version?

My faith is dependent solely on my Savior, Jesus Christ, my true Father in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is God's way of communicating through the written word, but it is not the only way.

I have put MaryMog on "ignore" and will do the same with you. I'm tired of wasting my time with people who have nothing of value to write.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I have put MaryMog on "ignore" and will do the same with you. I'm tired of wasting my time with people who have nothing of value to write.

 

[St. SteVen]

My faith is dependent solely on my Savior, Jesus Christ, my true Father in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is God's way of communicating through the written word, but it is not the only way.

There, now was that so difficult?

I have put MaryMog on "ignore" and will do the same with you. I'm tired of wasting my time with people who have nothing of value to write.

If you can't handle a challenge, you should put me on IGNORE.
My ratings indicate that I have something of value to offer.
What do your ratings tell us?

 

[Jim B]

There, now was that so difficult?

If you can't handle a challenge, you should put me on IGNORE.
My ratings indicate that I have something of value to offer.
What do your ratings tell us?

Okay, I will do as you wish. I'm putting you on ignore.

Your vanity and criticisms show who you really are. Hitler had high ratings too.

 

[Enoch111]

How about baptism? Do all Christians agree?
Salvation? Gifts of the Spirit? Eschatology? Eternal security? Works? The law? Shall I continue?

So before we go any further, just spell out what you believe about these doctrines. Let's see if we are in agreement.

 

[St. SteVen]

Okay, I will do as you wish. I'm putting you on ignore.

Your vanity and criticisms show who you really are. Hitler had high ratings too.

Does that strike anyone else as a cowardly act?
Toss a grenade and then run to hide.

We love you, @Jim B

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
How about baptism? Do all Christians agree?
Salvation? Gifts of the Spirit? Eschatology? Eternal security? Works? The law? Shall I continue?

So before we go any further, just spell out what you believe about these doctrines. Let's see if we are in agreement.

I thought we were trying to determine what is sound doctrine. What makes you the judge of that?
See if we are in agreement? - LOL
I'm pretty sure we aren't, based on our track record to date.
You are also assuming I will pick one side of an issue. Not always.

Baptism: Catholics practice infant baptism. Protestants, for the most part, practice "believers" baptism.
Which ones are Christians? Which method is sound doctrine? Which method is false doctrine?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Catholics practice infant baptism.

Unbiblical.

"believers" baptism.

Biblical.

 

[Taken]

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?

Say what?

Or worse...

"Who should I believe, you, or the Word of God?" (in reference to a man-made doctrinal opinion)

Basically, playing the "God card" to win a doctrinal argument. "How will you top that?"

Why do we treat each other this way?

Mens Truths Vary, carnally and spiritually....Because mens KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING Varies.

Jesus’ Doctrine is revealed in His speech, Yet observe how many will DENY His Literal speech, Because of the delivery “style/manner”(parable)...

Personally I believe men with good intentions to establish an order of conduct and organization in a Church, have gone overboard, (similar to governments), to becoming dictatorial power sitters with rules that have phased into doctrines and requirements for membership, establishing a yielding (without question) robotic congregation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Let's get real. There is sound doctrine and there is false doctrine. If you hold to sound doctrine, no one in their right mind can (or will) object. But if you promote false doctrine, then you will need to be corrected. If you refuse correction it is at your own peril. And all sound doctrine is found in the written Word of God.

This is far from true. Quite the opposite in fact.

2 Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[Episkopos]

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?

Say what?

Or worse...

"Who should I believe, you, or the Word of God?" (in reference to a man-made doctrinal opinion)

Basically, playing the "God card" to win a doctrinal argument. "How will you top that?"

Why do we treat each other this way?

How did the early church choose the bible canon for the New Testament? Did the bible fall out of the sky.?

Did the bible birth the church...or did the church birth the bible? The latter is true, of course.

So how did they choose what is scripture and what isn't? I believe it is by the testimony of those who experienced the life and power it testifies to.

The bible then can only be understood and interpreted correctly when that same life that was experienced by those who MADE the bible the bible ....is experienced the same way by modern readers/believers.

It's like finding an old recipe..but nobody remembers what the words that represent the ingredients are or the measurements represent. When those proper ingredients and measurements are discovered....you have the same meal that the original cooks had in mind.


When we EXPERIENCE the power of the gospel, and the life that is testified to therein...THEN we can understand what the bible is getting at.

Otherwise its just opinions and religious formulations that have no power or life in them.

 

[St. SteVen]

The bible then can only be understood and interpreted correctly when that same life that was experienced by those who MADE the bible the bible ....is experienced the same way by modern readers/believers.

Outstanding post! Thanks for joining the topic.

The quote above stood out to me. But...
I wonder whether the single interpretation stance has the merit we give it.
Cannot God use a single statement to mean different things (within reason) to different readers at different times?

What I am driving at here is that we need to be more open to what others may be gathering,
and not be so quick to shut others down that don't share our doctrinal opinions.

Build bridges, not walls.

 

[Episkopos]

Outstanding post! Thanks for joining the topic.

Thank you for your warm welcome! You don't see that much around here.

The quote above stood out to me. But...
I wonder whether the single interpretation stance has the merit we give it.

What I see is that one verse can mean more than one thing. The bible is written on more than one level. Hence the tendency to get mixed results when trying to "pin it down". The bible is not a book of religion or philosophy. It truly is a God-breathed manuscript.

Cannot God use a single statement to mean different things (within reason) to different readers at different times?

Yes. The bible reaches out to us where we are. There is only one truth...but that truth takes us down the ultimate path of knowing God and His ways, if we are willing and have the faith of a child. The NT in particular is a testimony written so that we might follow in their footsteps...and experience what they did...informing us to what is now available to us by grace through faith.

What I am driving at here is that we need to be more open to what others may be gathering,
and not be so quick to shut others down that don't share our doctrinal opinions.

Build bridges, not walls.

Yes. We tend to build walls where we need bridges and bridges where we need walls. That's where wisdom comes in.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The bible is written on more than one level. Hence the tendency to get mixed results when trying to "pin it down".

I don’t accept this philosophy.

Because it creates a god that unjustly punishes mankind that cannot “pin down” what god demands:

“…I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.” (Zephaniah 1:17-18)

The things that the true God demands are very clear! But they are contrary to our flesh’s very being. And men in the flesh create false doctrines and erroneous interpretations to keep their flesh in business so to speak…

These fleshly men loudly proclaim how saved and born again they are…

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t accept this philosophy.

Because it creates a god that unjustly punishes mankind that cannot “pin down” what god demands:

You are missing the point here. God punishes mankind for not receiving His word at the lowest possible resolution...that of righteousness. The fact that the same words can speak on more than one level means that God is inviting us to come up higher into fellowship with Himself.

Here is an example.

The just shall live by his faith.

Who's the "his"? Whose faith? Is that the faith of the one who is just? Or is it HIS faith...the faith of Christ?

It is both.

On the righteousness level, a person who is just (righteous) in God's eyes does not live by what he sees but by what he knows to be true. On the level of holiness it means to walk as Jesus walked.

“…I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.” (Zephaniah 1:17-18)

The things that the true God demands are very clear! But they are contrary to our flesh’s very being. And men in the flesh create false doctrines and erroneous interpretations to keep their flesh in business so to speak…

These fleshly men loudly proclaim how saved and born again they are…

Exactly. By claiming to understand and see themselves in the biblical narrative they err on the scale that Jesus corrected the Pharisees for. They said "we see" so they will be judged and live in an eternal blindness. Or again with the Laodiceans..."we are rich and in need of nothing" (having been born again and all) ...therefore those who make such empty claims will beg like paupers for ever. There will be weeping and anger.

It is wise to realize that we in the West are not a preferred people...being rich and spoiled....whereby the gospel is meant to be preached only to the poor. We see the wisdom in that by the way the gospel has been gutted through self-interest.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The just shall live by his faith.

Who's the "his"? Whose faith?

Mine’s and yours.

Saying it’s Christ’s faith is an overreach in my estimation.

 

[Episkopos]

Mine’s and yours.

Saying it’s Christ’s faith is an overreach in my estimation.

OK. Then you are to follow Christ on the level of your calling. The danger for you is to judge others whom God has called higher. There is condemnation for those who call the truth a lie...goodness as evil...light as darkness. If you can avoid that, you will be fine. God expects nothing more from you.

But to be righteous in God's eyes means that you have embraced humility, the fear of the Lord...and not judge what you know nothing about.

This is where the rich fail miserably. They are so used to being catered to, they don't know what taking on the bearing of a servant entails. They are not only NOT entering into the higher kingdom walk themselves...they attack any who do. Thus bringing the wrath down on them come judgment day.

The wise keep their noses out of trouble and are preserved into an eternal resting place.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

follow Christ on the level of your calling. The danger for you is to judge others whom God has called higher

If this is true, then warnings like this (below) are made void.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17)

He told this to all of the “brethren”, not just to those of a “higher walk” sir.

 

[Episkopos]

If this is true, then warnings like this (below) are made void.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17)

He told this to all of the “brethren”, not just to those of a “higher walk” sir.

A righteous person doesn't cause divisions. We can only operate at the level of a humble selfless discernment. Its the conflict of interest that is telling.

1. We are to judge righteously (all of us) those who bring in obvious divisions...so that any person on the street would think the person is nuts. Basic stuff here. The obvious tomfoolery of justifying sins for believers but condemnation for those outside the faith who do the same things. Basically hypocrisies. Anyone with ANY judgment can spot a hypocrite a mile away. (That's why so many mock the church). So we are to avoid such foolishness.


2. The ones who judge ALL things are the spiritual in Christ. Once we get past the obvious offenders, there are the smooth talking demonic people who seek to destroy...subtly...what the Lord is building. There is also the outer man to discern...the uncrucified...the unbroken...whom the devil uses for his designs. Even Peter was rebuked by Jesus saying "get behind Me satan". That takes a whole other level of discernment.

1 Cor. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Does this not smack of a higher walk/discernment to you?

 

[MatthewG]

opin·ion ə-ˈpin-yən

Synonyms of opinion
1
a
: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b
: APPROVAL, ESTEEM
I have no great opinion of his work.


2
a
: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
a person of rigid opinions

b
: a generally held view
news programs that shape public opinion


3
a
: a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b
: the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.