My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

[reformed1689]

So was I.

Obviously not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's why I keep saying they believe God owes everyone salvation, but they only get what is owed them if they vote themselves into heaven. Just think about that: God owes it to everyone, so Jesus HAD to be crucified...

"You owe us salvation God!!!!" SMH!

And yet He said And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]

Then Paul reinforces it when he wrote What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:14-18]

Notice how Paul starts out in verse 14 by saying What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! By Paul saying that, God being merciful(and also gracious) to some and hardening the rest is not injustice to those He hardens. He will never be unjust to any person.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

And yet He said And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]

Then Paul reinforces it when he wrote What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:14-18]

Notice how Paul starts out in verse 14 by saying What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! By Paul saying that, God being merciful(and also gracious) to some and hardening the rest is not injustice to those He hardens. He will never be unjust to any person.

Exactly, so when God does just that, hardening, "mercying" whom he wills, obviously not extending it to some others, he is not unjust (literally unfair) for sovereignly doing so.

Yet people on here are blaspheming God saying he is unfair (unjust) for doing just that.

He has to do this for everyone or he can't be God, or is charged as being an unfair God. He has to save a certain percentage or the devil wins according to @Helen. These people have drawn up their own criteria for God to meet in order to be God. In other words they are God.

 

[Renniks]

And even belief is a gift of God my friend [John 6:29 & Philippians 1:29].

You read that verse wrong.
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

What he is saying is that God require you to believe instead of trying to work your way to him.
Jesus calls them to a work they never thought of; believing on him to be the true Messiah; receiving him, and trusting in him for salvation, and eternal life.

As far as the Philippians verse:

"Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

This is about God granting the privilege of believing in Him and suffering for Him, which is also reminiscent of God granting repentance to the Gentiles (Acts 11:17-18), and God granting repentance to those in opposition. (2nd Timothy 2:24-26)
It's amusing that you try and use this verse when it says right before it that one has to strive for the faith.

 

[Renniks]

And it is His sheep who hear His voice and follow Him[John 10:27]. They are the ones who enter through the gate and are saved.

So? Anyone can become a sheep by doing those things. Which is clear from what I already quoted.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The question shouldn’t be why does God not call all, but why should he call any.

”...but why should he call any” John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Why would God not want more of His fruit to bear? Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And less: Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Renniks]

Obviously not.

Wow, how informative. As usual, nothing but insults.

 

[SovereignGrace]

”...but why should he call any” John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Why would God not want more of His fruit to bear? Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And less: Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

My point is that instead of ppl grumbling about God not calling everybody w/o exception, why not rejoice in Him saving a multitude that no man can # who were deserving of His divine wrath being poured out on them?

 

[reformed1689]

Wow, how informative. As usual, nothing but insults.

As usual? Hmmm

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And it is His sheep who hear His voice and follow Him[John 10:27]. They are the ones who enter through the gate and are saved.

how is it they knew Him not nor yet the voice of the prophets even though they read the OT? Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Exactly, so when God does just that, hardening, "mercying" whom he wills, obviously not extending it to some others, he is not unjust (literally unfair) for sovereignly doing so.

Yet people on here are blaspheming God saying he is unfair (unjust) for doing just that.

He has to do this for everyone or he can't be God, or is charged as being an unfair God. He has to save a certain percentage or the devil wins according to @Helen. These people have drawn up their own criteria for God to meet in order to be God. In other words they are God.

One thing ppl don’t want is for God to be fair. If He is fair, then He gives us what we deserve. I don’t what His fairness, I want His mercy.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My point is that instead of ppl grumbling about God not calling everybody w/o exception, why not rejoice in Him saving a multitude that no man can # who were deserving of His divine wrath being poured out on them?

They can be numbered...He was numbered with them. Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

 

[SovereignGrace]

how is it they knew Him not nor yet the voice of the prophets even though they read the OT? Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Because they were not His sheep. :)

 

[Renniks]

My point is that instead of ppl grumbling about God not calling everybody w/o exception, why not rejoice in Him saving a multitude that no man can # who were deserving of His divine wrath being poured out on them?

Well, for one thing, no one can know they are saved under your system, since no one can know if he's one of the chosen few or not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They can be numbered...He was numbered with them. Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

That # is settled my friend. This is not an arbitrary number. If it is, then God doesn’t know exactly how many are to be saved and open theism reigns supreme.

Arminians also agree the number is settled. Granted, they come to their conclusions differently than we do, both camps agree that God knows exactly who and how many will be saved. And conversely, how many will be damned.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That # is settled my friend. This is not an arbitrary number. If it is, then God doesn’t know exactly how many are to be saved and open theism reigns supreme.

Arminians also agree the number is settled. Granted, they come to their conclusions differently than we do, both camps agree that God knows exactly who and how many will be saved. And conversely, how many will be damned.

Isaiah 65:2-6 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, (Romans 3:12-18) ...after their own thoughts; [3] A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; [4] Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; [5] Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. [6] Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,


Isaiah 58:9-11 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; [10] And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: [11] And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Romans 2:8-11
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [11] For there is no respect of persons with God.

do not see how Calvinism Fares well with “stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.” and “if thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity.” He is “in the midst” of His people,
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 65:2-6 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, (Romans 3:12-18) ...after their own thoughts; [3] A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; [4] Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; [5] Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. [6] Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,


Isaiah 58:9-11 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; [10] And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: [11] And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Romans 2:8-11
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [11] For there is no respect of persons with God.

do not see how Calvinism Fares well with “stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.” and “if thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity.” He is “in the midst” of His people,
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Seems as if He’s looking for meekness, and not a finger putter forther?

 

[reformed1689]

According to your belief, as I understand it, when a person intentionally continues in error after supposedly having received his salvation, it means that he was never really saved in the first place.

That depends on the error.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Seems as if He’s looking for meekness, and not a finger putter forther?

even going as far as “take away from the midst of thee the yoke” and Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Matthew 18:20-35For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. [21] Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? [22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. [23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. [25] But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. [28] But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. [29] And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. [31] So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: [33] Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? [34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Seems as if He’s looking for meekness,

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

1 Corinthians 4:20-21 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?