My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

[Helen]

Now, tell you where you feel my theology is off. I can better articulate my belief this way. I am not trying to brainwash you, and I will go through verses and not twist them, I promise.

As I said to our friend David here...it is so often NOT what is said , but the harsh spirit it is said in. The way ( not just Calvinists ) but so many on here talk about ..they deserve hell, and phases like that...
For some of us more 'tender flowers' ... it causes us to say OUCH!!
Some seem so devoid of compassion ....
People are quick to point out that Jesus said this, and Jesus said that to the Pharisees ...but they don't bother to take into account that Jesus also wept over Jerusalem.

Maybe it is just me, could be , ... but I think not

....H

 

[Renniks]

If world means everybody w/o exception, then if you love everybody w/o exception, then the Father’s love is not in you.

That is a downright bizarre interpretation. Loving the world is not about loving people. It's about loving this material world more than God. We are supposed to love all people. 1 Corinthians 16:14 Luke 6:35 We are told to love our neighbors and our enemies, who else is there? Matthew 5:43

 

[Helen]

No, it is because the payment was not made for them. Christ did not die for every individual. He only died for the elect.

W H A T !!!

WOW!! Is that so screwed around....
Now I have heard it all...so what and who are all the other idiots ...cannon fodder! Why bother to ever allow them to exist !!

Now I have heard it all...

Your God is not my God...

I am out of this whole thread.

You are on your own now @amadeus These people are some of the most skewed people I have ever met. They have obviously never seen for themselves, into the Father Heart or the Shepherd heart, of God ...

Im out!

 

[reformed1689]

W H A T !!!

WOW!! Is that so screwed around....
Now I have heard it all...so what and who are all the other idiots ...cannon fodder! Why bother to ever allow them to exist !!

Now I have heard it all...

Your God is not my God...

I am out of this whole thread.

You are on your own now @amadeus These people are some of the most skewed people I have ever met. They have obviously never seen for themselves, into the Father Heart or the Shepherd heart, of God ...

Im out!

I'm sorry that you can't handle the truth. But this is what Scripture says. Christ even said He laid down his life for the sheep. It never says he laid down his life for all. I know you are universalist, but that is a false doctrine not found in Scripture.

 

[reformed1689]

The way ( not just Calvinists ) but so many on here talk about ..they deserve hell, and phases like that...

WE ALL DESERVE HELL! What is harsh about that?

 

[reformed1689]

People are quick to point out that Jesus said this, and Jesus said that to the Pharisees ...but they don't bother to take into account that Jesus also wept over Jerusalem.

Yet Jesus did not save all of Jerusalem...How do you reconcile that? Universalism. The problem is that is not found in Scripture.

 

[amadeus]

Then charge the individual, not the group.

If I were charging the whole group I would have stopped bothering with you as soon as I understood you were with them. I've been in some bad places myself and understand that every individual is not necessarily a willing and ready partaker of any and every evil thing that may be stated in some creed or expressed by the words and actions of their human leadership.

I always try to take people as the come, one at the time, with an open mind and heart. Sometimes I get stomped but that comes also with the territory.

Every heart is different. Some hearts will simply join a group and remain and let it be whatever it is without ever seriously considering where it is they are or are supposed to be as a follower of Jesus.

Others, in spite of the worst of rules and examples, simply are hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God. They may be found almost anywhere. God will help them. He will use us if we are in the right place and we are available. If we are not, He will accomplish His will for the hungry and thirsty heart in another way or through another person who is available.

 

[marks]

As I said to our friend David here...it is so often NOT what is said , but the harsh spirit it is said in. The way ( not just Calvinists ) but so many on here talk about ..they deserve hell, and phases like that...
For some of us more 'tender flowers' ... it causes us to say OUCH!!
Some seem so devoid of compassion ....
People are quick to point out that Jesus said this, and Jesus said that to the Pharisees ...but they don't bother to take into account that Jesus also wept over Jerusalem.

Maybe it is just me, could be , ... but I think not

....H

It's not just you.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

W H A T !!!

WOW!! Is that so screwed around....
Now I have heard it all...so what and who are all the other idiots ...cannon fodder! Why bother to ever allow them to exist !!

Now I have heard it all...

Your God is not my God...

I am out of this whole thread.

You are on your own now @amadeus These people are some of the most skewed people I have ever met. They have obviously never seen for themselves, into the Father Heart or the Shepherd heart, of God ...

Im out!

I know you're shocked, but I implore you to read Scripture and become more acquainted with God. Job may be a good place to meditate. Exodus 33:17-23 as well where Moses asks to know Gods glory. God tells him what he and all of us need to know: He does as he wills, not as we humans think he should act to be fair in our eyes. Study John 6 with an open mind, you will see the same thing in there. There are many more as it is a theme throughout Scripture and He is immutable.

I'd also invite you to read this free short book: The Sovereignty of God

 

[amadeus]

didn’t mean anything against you nor suggesting to not speak. As you have pointed to on all occasions “God gives the increase.” No, realize I don’t have to worry for you as you are not alone, yet you are a brother and an elder.

I do understand what you are saying. I know you meant only good with what you posted and I do appreciate it. There have been too many times when I needed to hear some kind supportive words and received only admonitions or curses. Presently I have no home church. By following God, I found myself on the outside, having to come out of a "her" that was better than any place I had been.

Now, I visit places but instead of looking at the doctrines too closely I am watching their hearts. Some of them I likely will never re-visit. A very few, on the other hand, have expressed a warmth and love toward an unknown brother which could only come from God. Whether God will actually give me another 'church home', I don't know. That also is not my call. The calling is His to give in His time.

 

[amadeus]

No, No, NO NO NO! We do not follow what is in our own hearts! That is the WORST thing you can do. We follow GOD.

And if God is in our hearts?

"He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live." Prov 4:4

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts" Prov 21:2

 

[Renniks]

Great! If He is drawing everyone w/o exception, then everyone w/o exception is saved. In John 6, those He draws, He will also raise on the last day.

This verse works against you but you don't choose to see it. John 6 does not say that everyone he draws will come. It says no one comes without being drawn. John 12:32 says he draws all. Logically then, there is something between the drawing and the coming. The drawing is not irresistible. A multitude of verses tell us that belief must come before regeneration and glorification.

 

[Renniks]

Again, can you resist the wind blowing up in you? If you can, you can also resist the Holy Spirit.

Sure, I can choose to fight into the wind instead of going with it. But that isn't the meaning. It's just showing that the Spirit works in ways we don't see. God is working on hearts that we would not expect to respond to him. He works even if there's no response.

 

[reformed1689]

This verse works against you but you don't choose to see it. John 6 does not say that everyone he draws will come. It says no one comes without being drawn. John 12:32 says he draws all. Logically then, there is something between the drawing and the coming. The drawing is not irresistible. A multitude of verses tell us that belief must come before regeneration and glorification.

No, John 12:32 is talking about drawing both Jew and Gentile, not individuals. As far as those being drawn come, Jesus said all the Father gives to him come to him. That doesn't leave any wiggle room.

 

[Renniks]

No, John 12:32 is talking about drawing both Jew and Gentile, not individuals. As far as those being drawn come, Jesus said all the Father gives to him come to him. That doesn't leave any wiggle room.

It doesn't say all the father draws come, but the ones the father gives. Two different things. The father gives who? He tells them clearly that the way to come is to believe on him. John 6:35
" For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Whoomp! There it is. The conditions for the father giving them to him.

 

[reformed1689]

It doesn't say all the father draws come, but the ones the father gives. Two different things. The father gives who? He tells them clearly that the way to come is to believe on him. John 6:35
" For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Whoomp! There it is. The conditions for the father giving them to him.

And nobody can come to him unless the Father draws Him. The Father draws the ones who are elect.

 

[SovereignGrace]

W H A T !!!

WOW!! Is that so screwed around....
Now I have heard it all...so what and who are all the other idiots ...cannon fodder! Why bother to ever allow them to exist !!

Now I have heard it all...

Your God is not my God...

I am out of this whole thread.

You are on your own now @amadeus These people are some of the most skewed people I have ever met. They have obviously never seen for themselves, into the Father Heart or the Shepherd heart, of God ...

Im out!

Go through John 10. Read it and see who the Christ said He was giving His life for in verses 11 and 15. Throughout that chapter there is a clear linkage of the Shepherd and His sheep. Not everyone is a sheep, as on the day of judgment we can see goats and sheep being there in Matthew 25.

Then go through John 17 and the Christ’s High Priestly prayer. When the Christ came, He came as Prophet, Priest, and King. He is now our High Priest, as this is clearly taught throughout the book of Hebrews. Then look at the role the OT high priest played. Who did this high priest intercede for. Was it for all mankind indiscriminately? No. Was it solely for the ppl of Israel? Yes. This high priest typified the High Priesthood of the Christ.

Look at Leviticus 16 and the Levitical scapegoat. When Aaron the high priest laid his hands upon that goat, he confessed all the sins of Israel, and then it was led into the wilderness and turned loose, never to return. This typified expiation, the removal of one’s guilt. We read of John the Baptist saying ”Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”[John 1:29] Now, if world means everybody whoever lived, then everybody whoever lived sins have been taken away and everybody is saved, whether they heard the gospel or not. This makes evangelism and also missions into remote area needless, as their sins have been taken from them.

Then there is Ephesians 5:25 where it says the Christ gave His life for His bride, the church. Too many places speak to a particular(limited) atonement.

 

[SovereignGrace]

As I said to our friend David here...it is so often NOT what is said , but the harsh spirit it is said in. The way ( not just Calvinists ) but so many on here talk about ..they deserve hell, and phases like that...
For some of us more 'tender flowers' ... it causes us to say OUCH!!
Some seem so devoid of compassion ....
People are quick to point out that Jesus said this, and Jesus said that to the Pharisees ...but they don't bother to take into account that Jesus also wept over Jerusalem.

Maybe it is just me, could be , ... but I think not

....H

So, do ppl deserve heaven? That’s the only alternative my Sister? If they deserve heaven, then they are not saved by grace, but by right. They would rightly be saved as they deserve it. That is not grace at all.

 

[Renniks]

And nobody can come to him unless the Father draws Him. The Father draws the ones who are elect.

That's not in there. Every one of those Jews Jesus was talking to had a real opportunity to come to him in faith. Maybe not at that time, but at some point. And I don't mean a theoretical opportunity, as in, the gospel is for all... but it really isn't, because God just drags some in and ignores the rest.
If they didn't have that opportunity, Jesus preaching to them was totally pointless.

 

[reformed1689]

That's not in there. Every one of those Jews Jesus was talking to had a real opportunity to come to him in faith. Maybe not at that time, but at some point. And I don't mean a theoretical opportunity, as in, the gospel is for all... but it really isn't, because God just drags some in and ignores the rest.
If they didn't have that opportunity, Jesus preaching to them was totally pointless.

What is not in there? Be specific.