quietthinker
Well-Known Member
sooooo, one is required to dismiss all logic and reason in favour of how one understands the bible? ....so I would ask, who's understanding? ...there are many of them.
My Mother Tells Me To Stop Spreading Christian Universalism
- Thread starter Harold
- Start date
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The Bible is not "logic and reason". It's about the miraculous God of everything, Jesus who drowned all on Earth but 8 "making them an example".
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
explain to me then how one who loves (has affection towards his creatures) can drown and burn his children?
....and I wonder what this text means, 'come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet I will make them white as snow' Isaiah 1:18
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
like I said, you love that idea and would be very disappointed if it wasn't the case.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Of course.
Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
Satan LOVES Universalism!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
allow me to ask this, what do you think Universalism means. Be careful, you might use reason and logic which is not inline with the bible!
According to the Universalist Patrick even the Devil will be saved.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
hear the question Jack. I'm not asking you to tell me what Patrick believes, I'm asking what you believe.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I think you get off on argument and decoy. By your own admission, the bible is not logical or reasonable (post #22)
By that measure, I think the chickens have a better chance of understanding. :)
ScottA
Well-Known Member
He is indeed, "very enthusiastic." But his Original Post here reveals the greater truth of his mental state. He is obviously very troubled (to put it nicely).
Helen's advise was right on.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Not every CU believes the devil will be reconciled to God.
This is known as Human CU. Those who do believe Satan will be saved are known mostly as Radical CU's
This is known as Human CU. Those who do believe Satan will be saved are known mostly as Radical CU's
1 Corinthians 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Harold, the human family were given a short stick because of Adam. That was not Satan's position. He deliberately rebelled and sustained it even while understanding God's glory....and by his cunning he took many angels with him.
He is not in the same position as humanity who were disadvantaged through no fault other own.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We are but dust Harold who have been around a relatively short time. Satan on the other hand is spirit, one whose existence has probably been eons. I find it hard to even measure that let alone the superior intelligence way beyond the human.
It is the dust which Jesus identified with in his sojourn so that we have the privilege of identifying with his resurrection.
Dear Cassandra: what leads us to heavenly peace and healing in the Kingdom of God is forgiveness which allows God in so all things can be corrected and restored in Christ Jesus.
What leads us to suffer in hell is unforgiveness the one blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is unforgiveable because we always have to choose and agree to ask God for forgiveness or the unforgiveness and refusal to allow God's grace in will block us from receiving.
The SOONER we agree to receive Grace Forgiveness and Healing the Sooner we break the pattern causing sins and suffering to replicate.
For example, even though murder and murderers are forgiven once they agree to come clean, the SOONER you come clean the less people die and suffer and the less restitution you owe to your fellow man you have injured.
God's grace and forgiveness are free but man's debts to each other still have to be paid.
Look at the War in Europe. The Sooner the countries and leaders make peace, the more we can reduce the loss of lives and communities to rape, killing, torture and destruction going on in genocidal tribal warfare.
All the counties that have suffered war have carried the scars of it for generations.
There is recovery over time, but the less damage done the less work it takes to recover.
So heaven and hell are like that.
Compare the testimony of people like David Berkowitz who became transformed in Christ but only after he had already killed several people. He now teaches through his own ministerial outreach that had he gotten help sooner, those people might still be alive. So he lives to reach out to others with criminal sickness, urging and teaching everyone to share this knowledge of God's healing and transformation in Christ to save lives.
The Sooner the better.
@Cassandra and @Harold
I join you in prayer that we all unite including both ways of sharing the Gospel.
Some people are more motivated to share and help others receive Jesus by perceiving a deadline , that if you die before you receive there's no way, or if the Lord comes and you're not prepared you may miss the boat. If that helps people change their ways sooner, God uses that to reach such people who this motivated and inspired. I have friends who believe this way and it makes them so concerned for others running out of time that they try harder and never take it for granted that someone else will help later or God will magically do it all without us saying anything to reach someone.
I believe God will get His way that His will not a soul would be lost.
In our world yes, people get destroyed every day. Physically and spiritually.
God's realms are greater and the workings of hell are to purge and cleanse all evil that burns in the Lake of Fire. Evil isn't sustainable, only God's love and truth brings lasting justice and peace only God can endure forever as the only thing infinite and eternal with no beginning and no end.
So even where the Lake of Fire has all evil thrown in, only the Good of God shall remain.
Heaven and Earth shall pass away but God and God's Word will prevail.
In the meantime God makes some of us Jews and some Gentiles. Some under Scriptural laws and others follow and respond to Natural laws. Some of us are Universalist in approach and others can be very exclusive like some Calvinistic, some Catholics or JW believe only their members will enter Heaven only "144,000" elders will be called etc.
I believe the first called to unity will pray for Jesus to come to save the rest.
But 2-3 of each fellowship called to unite and pray on each point will still lead first and help others to receive in turn so more people follow.
The blessings will multiply as we receive Jesus and God's truth to restore our relations overcoming conflicts and divisions otherwise blocking us from receiving more fully.
The gifts of grace and knowledge of God will multiply until every knee shall now every tongue shall confess every heart and mind receive as God manifests to each person.
Yes there will be suffering and gnashing of teeth. The deliverance process is not without deep purging of anything that is not of God and which Jesus takes on the Cross to remove and redeem that is a very painful process that broke God's heart when He had to sacrifice His own Son to end the cycle of sin enslaving humanity.
We will all come together as brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, husbands and wives, teachers and students, neighbors and servants all wanting the best for humanity sake.
When all people and Nations are Baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, all eyes ears hearts and souls will receive. The evil will be cast into the Lake of First, Jesus will govern us as God's Law and Authority of Justice made manifest, and the Holy Spirit of God's truth peace and healing grace will set us free from the past patterns of sin and strife.
May we all unite as Christian believers, and lead all others to receive and follow God's love and grace as we know it in Christ Jesus.
Let us pray that the Christians in Russia and China praying without ceasing be uplifted and united with all others so God's greater message vision and plans for humanity are magnified and received by all who are witnessed to. May this Saving grace spread through forgiving each other and confessing faults one to another that we may be healed. And this healing spread to all who witness the Holy Spirit as these relations and mindsets change to mercy compassion and peace that can only come from the Lord.
James 5:16
Matthew 18:15-20
Matthew 6:14-15
Let us pray for unity in Christ that God's will and truth are established and shared worldwide both locally and globally for the Kingdom of God is at hand. In Jesus mighty name Amen.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus name and pray in agreement in anything touching the Earth it is done by our Father in Heaven. Because only God's perfect will through Jesus can establish such unity in truth when it comes from God. If we haven't united in humble submission to God's will, that's why division remains. We must keep forgiving our local differences so that we can receive God's higher truth that is greater than man's understanding.
In Jesus name let us unite and receive God's perfect love will truth plans and vision to share with all other people tribes and nations we call to be Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen with praise and thanks.
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