My Timeline for Planet Earth

[Bobby Jo]

... Don't follow Walvoord's citations of Young, or Keil & Kliefoth. ...

I guess you're right. There's an interpretation for the Prophecies of Daniel, albeit a DIFFERENT "interpretation" for each of the hundreds of Commentators:

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”[1]

[1] Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699​

But of course History can confirm each of these "interpretations":

Per Montgomery:
The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

And of course your "Translation" is perfectly correct:

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE
by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281
Daniel and the Apocalypse

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

And the commentators find contradictions in Scripture (Dan. 1:21 vs 10:1):

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom24.vii.xx.html?bcb=right

Expositors are puzzled with this verse, because, as we shall afterwards see, the Vision occurred to Daniel in the third year of Cyrus’s reign. Some explain the word היה, haiah,by to be “broken;” but this is by no means in accordance with the history. Their opinion is right who say that Daniel continued to the first year of the reign of Cyrus in the discharge of the prophetic office, although expositors do not openly say so; but I state openly what they say obscurely. For since he afterwards set out into Media, they say this change is denoted here. But we may understand the words better in the sense of Daniel’s flourishing among the Chaldeans and Assyrians, and being acknowledged as a celebrated Prophet; because he is known to have interpreted King Belshszzar’s vision, on the very night on which he was slain. The word here is simple and complete — he was — but it depends on the succeeding ones, since he always obtained the confidence and authority of a Prophet with the kings of Babylon. This, then, is the true sense.​

Yep, just go along with what comes from the pulpit. THEY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS! :)


Good Job,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Some of these conversations be like....

Actually, that seems to a poor analogy. A BETTER analogy would be GOD pouring his anointing oil over a person, but that person is holding an umbrella. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I knew that before we had this conversation.

Bobby Jo

The scriptures tell us to not listen to men's philosophy and men such as walvoord and others who graduate from these seminaries do combine their philosophy with scripture. You scan disagree with that all you want but I want listen to men who combine their philosophy with scripture.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The scriptures tell us to not listen ...

You're on the right track. Don't deviate, no matter WHAT the evidence. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Dave Watchman]

Newton certainly observed that the Commentators are LIARS. Furthermore he REFUSED TO PUBLISH HIS OWN RESEARCH for good reason. -- Newton didn't want to be listed among the LIARS.

Newton sure was a different kind of dude.

Seems what he didn't want to do is to try to interpret an unfulfilled prophecy:

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing​

IF, 1535 AND 1969, turn out to be a secondary fulfillment of Daniel 9, it's probably OK to be talking about them now. These end time 62 and 7 weeks, that might be lining up with the biggest fulfillment of all time, until Messiah the Prince.

By the Same Liberty of Interpretation.

"The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming.

If divers of the antients, as [g] Irenaeus, [h] Julius Africanus, Hippolytus the martyr, and Apollinaris Bishop of Laodicea, applied the half week to the times of Antichrist; why may not we, by the same liberty of interpretation, apply the seven weeks to the time when Antichrist shall be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming? - Isaac Newton​

So you are not only uninformed on the most simple of concepts pertaining to Daniel 9, but ascribe your FALSE interpretation to a man who actually HAS integrity.

"Let time be the interpreter.

It's all too common an occurrence in the "church",
Bobby Jo

It all sounds a bit harsh Bobby Jo.

Especially if the Lord IS at hand, let my reasonableness be known to all men.

I don't think Isaac was correct about everything he said, like i think Daniel 7 was the 1260 years during the Foxe Book days, and the last heptad from Daniel 9 was 27 to 34 AD.

But i wouldn't label an erroneous interpreter as a LIAR. Isaac himself said let TIME be the interpreter. Newton described it as ATTEMPTING a particular interpretation of it. We see through the glass darkly, right now i know in part.

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with
observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept:
and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem,
precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not
from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them,
and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it; and
lastly, that this rebuilding of Jerusalem and the waste places of Judah
is predicted in Micah 7:11, Amos 9:11, 14, Ezek. 36:33, 35, 36, 38, Isa. 54:3, 11, 12; 55:12, 61:4; 65:18, 21, 22, and Tobit 14:5 and that the return from captivity and coming of the Messiah and his kingdom are described in Daniel 7, Rev. 19, Acts 1, Matt. 24, Joel
3, Ezek. 36, 37, Isa. 60, 62, 63, 65 and 66 and many other places of scripture. The manner I know not. Let time be the Interpreter.​

But 1535 did happen, i didn't make up Suleiman's walls of Jerusalem. Without these things actually happening, i wouldn't be here writing a note on it.

So 1535 + 62 weeks of years (434) = 1969.

1,535
434 +
--------------------------
1,969 =

And you saw this:

areas of activity - The Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem

This is the organization which rebuilt the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, and turned it from a pile of rubble into a modern residential neighborhood in one of the worlds' oldest cities, even while preserving the immense archaeological site it is built on, and serving millions of tourists annually.​

And the PDF from this:

Israel's Documented Story: June 2013

"In July 1968, the government decided to create the Company for the Reconstruction and Development of the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem Ltd., and in January 1969 the Company was established.​

Doesn't it seem too coincidental? Were the Jews orchestrating this on purpose in 1969? Did they have 1535 in mind? I doubt it. I doubt that they would have been able to plan the 6 day war just in time to make a decree to restore Jerusalem that would line up with 1535 and the possible second coming of Messiah the Prince.

So 1535 + 62 weeks of years (434) = 1969.

1,535
434 +
--------------------------
1,969 =

And 1969 + 7 weeks of years (49) = 2018.

1,969
49 +
--------------------------
2,018 =

So if these final 49 years ARE the "compass of a Jubilee", as Newton put it, pointing to the 50th year, i can say that something apocalyptic MIGHT happen on or BEFORE some unknown date in January 2020.

That isn't how it worked in the primary fulfillment. 457BC + 7 and 62 weeks until they were looking Jesus in the eye as He read the Isaiah 61 scroll in the Temple. I see this as 27AD. This time it's the mirror image, 62 weeks and 7 weeks. The 50th year after the last 49.

I would not be a LIAR here unless it could be proved that i made the above statements, with the knowledge that they are false, AND with the INTENTION that someone else shall be led to believe them (Isenberg 1973, 248). (cf. “[lying is] making a statement believed to be false, with the intention of getting another to accept it as true” (Primoratz 1984, 54n2)).

Like Isaac said: "Let time be the Interpreter."

This might be right up your alley, good read:

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy​

The Definition of Lying and Deception
First published Thu Feb 21, 2008; substantive revision Fri Dec 25, 2015

Questions central to the philosophical discussion of lying to others and other-deception (interpersonal deceiving) may be divided into two kinds. Questions of the first kind are definitional or conceptual. They include the questions of how lying is to be defined, how deceiving is to be defined, and whether lying is always a form of deceiving. Questions of the second kind are normative — more particularly, moral. They include the questions of whether lying and deceiving are either defeasibly or non-defeasibly morally wrong, whether lying is morally worse than deceiving, and whether, if lying and deception are defeasibly morally wrong, they are merely morally optional on certain occasions, or are sometimes morally obligatory. In this entry, we only consider questions of the first kind.

1. Traditional Definition of Lying
1.1 Statement Condition
1.2 Untruthfulness Condition
1.3 Addressee Condition
1.4 Intention to Deceive the Addressee Condition
1.5 Objections to the Traditional Definition of Lying
2. Deceptionism vs. Non-Deceptionism About Lying
2.1 Simple Deceptionism
2.2 Complex Deceptionism
2.3 Moral Deceptionism
2.4 Non-Deceptionism
3. Traditional Definition of Deception
3.1 Objections to the Traditional Definition of Deception
Bibliography
Academic Tools
Other Internet Resources
Related Entries

1. Traditional Definition of Lying

There is no universally accepted definition of lying to others. The dictionary definition of lying is “to make a false statement with the intention to deceive” (OED 1989) but there are numerous problems with this definition. It is both too narrow, since it requires falsity, and too broad, since it allows for lying about something other than what is being stated, and lying to someone who is believed to be listening in but who is not being addressed.

The most widely accepted definition of lying is the following: “A lie is a statement made by one who does not believe it with the intention that someone else shall be led to believe it” (Isenberg 1973, 248) (cf. “[lying is] making a statement believed to be false, with the intention of getting another to accept it as true” (Primoratz 1984, 54n2)). This definition does not specify the addressee, however. It may be restated as follows:

(L1) To lie =df to make a believed-false statement to another person with the intention that the other person believe that statement to be true.

"According to the statement condition, lying requires that a person make a statement. Making a statement requires the use of conventional signs, or symbols. Conventional signs, such as “WOMEN” on the door to a restroom, are opposed to natural or causal signs, or indices, such as women coming in and out of a restroom, as well as signs that signify by resemblance, or icons, such as a figure with a triangular dress on the door to a restroom (cf. Grotius 2005, 2001; Pierce 1955; Grice 1989).
​

The Definition of Lying and Deception (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I hope this can help.

Let God be True,
And i am a liar.

 

[Davy]

The issue of whether to trust our Bible translations or not, is crazy and just detracts from what we should be concentrating on. That is: what does God Plan for His people in these end times?

It is obvious that the KJV is rife with error and is written in an archaic form of English with the mindset of 400 years ago. It and several other Bibles, like the Jehovah's Witness Bible, should be avoided and a good modern translation, based on all the many sources available today, used as our trusted guide.

If we can't trust the Word as received, then is God a God of confusion? NO!
Arguing that we must learn how to read Hebrew, or to question the scriptures, is a fruitless exercise.
Try to address the OP of this thread; time periods ARE important to God. He uses 7 and 40 frequently and His decreed time for mankind is 7- 1000 year periods. From simple addition of the given times in the Bible, we are now very close to the 6000th year. This should be a huge wake up call for everyone!

Your bias against the 1611 KJV Bible is unfounded. It is still the most accurate English translation to date. No other English Bible translation follows the manuscripts as accurately. And more modern New Testament Bibles based on Westcott and Hort's Alexandrian manuscript are from a seldom used manuscript while the KJV used the Textus Receptus which was widely used and make up the majority of NT manuscripts.

There is no such thing as a perfect Bible translation. There are translation errors in ALL... of them. So that kind of argument went down the drain a long... time ago.

 

[Keraz]

There is no such thing as a perfect Bible translation. There are translation errors in ALL... of them. So that kind of argument went down the drain a long... time ago.

Right, but to rely solely on the KJV is a bad mistake.
Most modern translations make a better effort to convey the basic meaning of the scriptures and in our modern language.

Interpreting what the Bible tells us:
Most Bible scholars say that the Bible should be understood literally, if possible. Differences arise when people allegorize passages or just think it all happened long ago. In a lot of prophecy there has been a partial fulfilment; the full and final event awaits completion, as we are told by Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:11. The common and incorrect seminary and Bible College teaching that says all the wrath of God, so comprehensively prophesied throughout the scriptures, has been abrogated and nullified by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and this leads pastors today to preach only personal salvation. Any mention of a judgement and punishment of peoples and nations is taboo and likely to lose them their tenure. But Jesus Himself will instigate this punishment. Psalms 2:9, Luke 3:16-17

Because Bible prophecy is written ‘a little here, a little there’, Isaiah 28:9-10 and also a spirit of misunderstanding prevails among those who don’t make a serious attempt to understand the prophetic Word, Isaiah 6:9b-10, then the end time events will surprise most people. God’s Word has not been given to us so that no one can truly understand - the prophets Daniel 12:10 and Amos 3:7, say that we can know God’s plan for our future.


Here are some examples of prophecies that can and will be fulfilled in the near future:

Ezekiel 6:7-10 As the dead fall around you, you will know that the Lord has carried out His judgement against His enemies. Jeremiah 9:22 But My people, living amongst the nations who survive My punishment will remember Me from their places of exile. Then I will remove their wayward hearts and wanton eyes that look to idols, then they will loath themselves for all the evil they have done and the abominations they have committed. Ezekiel 37:14 They will know that, I the Lord, was not issuing vain threats about a punishment to come. Deut. 32:34-43

Daniel 12:1 At the time of the end of the age, Michael will appear, that great Captain who guards your kinsmen. There will be a time of anguish such has never been known until that moment. Joel 2:1-11. But at that time, your people will be delivered, everyone whose name is entered into the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16

Hosea 14:4-9 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for My anger is turned away from them. They will flourish once again in My shadow and will grow vigorously in the holy Land. Ephraim, [the Western peoples] you will no longer look to any idols and I declare that I will shelter and prosper you.
Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. Jeremiah 9:12 The ways of the Lord are right and the righteous follow them, but the rebellious will stumble. James 1:21 Ref: REB, NIV.


The prophesied Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath by fire will happen, He has done it before with a flood, in Noah’s time. This time, it will be a terrifying and shocking event, a worldwide “time of anguish”, a terrible strike on the earth by fire, graphically described in over 100 prophesies throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, etc.
It will happen before the Return of Jesus in His glory, proved by how the Lord’s faithful Christian believers will “dwell in His shadow and under the Lord’s shelter”. This is the completion of the prophecies of how the Lord’s people will live in peace and security in the Holy Land and the fulfilment of His promises to the Patriarchs.
Ezekiel 34:11-16...I will rescue My people scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness and bring them to their own country.

 

[Davy]

Right, but to rely solely on the KJV is a bad mistake.
Most modern translations make a better effort to convey the basic meaning of the scriptures and in our modern language.

I don't think any serious Bible student relies only on the KJV.

And no, modern translations don't make a better effort to convey the basic meaning of the scriptures, stop. Modern translations often leave out much of His Word that is in the manuscripts. And the modern New Testament translations use the corrupt Wescott & Hort texts they claimed to have discovered in the 1800s, their own words expressed hatred towards the Majority Texts used for the KJV.

Understanding God's Word isn't about adapting it to modern culture. Understanding is about heeding His Word in the simplicity that it is written. And that cannot be done without The Holy Spirit guiding us. If the English speaking people want to allow themselves to be dumbed down by false one-world globalist teachers so they can't understand enough English to comprehend the simple 1611 KJV, then that is not God's fault.

Amos 8:11-12
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
KJV

There is absolutely nothing difficult about the above passage reading it in English. There God showed for the latter days there would be a famine of hearing the words of the LORD, people looking for it but not finding it. The idea of hearing there is about comprehending intelligently.

Interpreting what the Bible tells us:
Most Bible scholars say that the Bible should be understood literally, if possible. Differences arise when people allegorize passages or just think it all happened long ago. In a lot of prophecy there has been a partial fulfilment; the full and final event awaits completion, as we are told by Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:11. The common and incorrect seminary and Bible College teaching that says all the wrath of God, so comprehensively prophesied throughout the scriptures, has been abrogated and nullified by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and this leads pastors today to preach only personal salvation. Any mention of a judgement and punishment of peoples and nations is taboo and likely to lose them their tenure. But Jesus Himself will instigate this punishment. Psalms 2:9, Luke 3:16-17

Scholars, seminary school, those are only helps. The Holy Spirit is Who gives us the true meaning of Scripture, not man. Those learned in God's Word called by Him are helpers, but they are not there to do our own Bible study for us. Remember Paul commending those at Berea for verifying in Holy Writ what he was preaching.

God's Word includes Scripture that is meant literally, and also Scripture that is meant metaphorically about something that is literal. Spiritualizing is a better word I think you mean, which is about taking a Scripture meant literally and making some mystical treatise out of it until the original meaning is lost; this is actually what many of the more modern Bible translations do. It is also a sign of those whom God did not call, thus they are not given to understand His Word, even in its simplicity. That is the real reason for so many later translations. It's because some men are scholars of the letter only, and not of the meaning in accordance with The Holy Spirit.

Because Bible prophecy is written ‘a little here, a little there’, Isaiah 28:9-10 and also a spirit of misunderstanding prevails among those who don’t make a serious attempt to understand the prophetic Word, Isaiah 6:9b-10, then the end time events will surprise most people. God’s Word has not been given to us so that no one can truly understand - the prophets Daniel 12:10 and Amos 3:7, say that we can know God’s plan for our future.

In Isaiah 28, God was pointing to the stupor of blindness upon the leaders of Judah. He did reveal the proper method of study of His Word, but they rejected it, just as many do today and teach their own word instead (a la Ezek.13). And for this cause, they would stumble at The Word, and eventually will make a covenant with death. In those Isaiah chapters, especially from Isaiah 24 thru Isaiah 34, it's about events to come upon the whole earth on the final day of this world. The "day of the Lord" is pointed to early on in Isaiah to reveal this. So I agree it is not all history. Some Isaiah chapters parallel Revelation for the end of this world, and future. I am not a new babe to all this.

Your gathering idea simply doesn't have a correlation in God's Word, mainly because the 2 Peter 3:10 event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth is to occur on the final... day of this present world. It is linked with the "day of the Lord". The Isaiah 13 "day of the Lord" events some think was history with the Medes since they are mentioned along with that. So they confuse the actual time of the "day of the Lord", not understanding that is for the last day of this world, sometime in our near future. Why? Because other Scripture about that day is linked to it, especially in the New Testament, like 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3.

The Bible order is set in stone, the coming time of "great tribulation" will be a time of world peace like our Lord Jesus showed in His Word (Matthew 24:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:3; Daniel 8:25; Daniel 11:21). The event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the surface of this earth is set for the day when Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord".

The order of events you propose is not following that simple Bible evidence.

 

[Keraz]

The order of events you propose is not following that simple Bible evidence.

What you believe does not relate to the actual Bible evidence.
What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather - Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2

They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2

They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14 [this is the situation today]

Soon to happen:
At the moment of attack, God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire - Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5, , Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

The sun will explode with an extremely bright flash and the moon will reflect bright red - Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Habakkuk 3:4-5

The Lord will make their weapons recoil upon themselves, the EMP hit will cause them to explode - Psalms 7:13-16, Joel 3:4, Obadiah 15

Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection - Psalms 18:11-12, Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Amos 8:9

A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Everyone on earth will be shocked and terrified - Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Revelation 6:15-17

The atmosphere will be pushed aside – Revelation 6:14, 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:4

The whole earth will be enveloped by fire - Isaiah 66:15, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

Only a remnant will survive in the Holy Land - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13

He will judge the nations, the wicked will die - Isaiah 63:1-6, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27

His enemies will become ashes - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 49:2, Matthew 3:12b

Millions will die around the world - Psalms 97:3-5, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 13:12

The Lord will protect those who call to Him - Isaiah 43:2, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

But most people will take shelter until it passes. Isaiah 2:19, Revelation 6:15

The survivors form a One World Govt. - Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12

The Holy Land will be regenerated - Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35:1-10, Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 33:12-14

And the Lord's faithful Christian people will gather there. - Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9-14

They will become the new nation of Beulah - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jer. 31

They will build a new Temple – Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48

The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord – Ezekiel 38:22, Joel 2:20

The leaders of Beulah will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:15

At the mid point he will break it and conquer Beulah -Daniel 9:27, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5-8

This commences the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation - Rev 8:2-

Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them - Jeremiah 4:28

There are plenty more prophesies and details to prove this scenario.

Believe it or not; up to everyone to decide! Psalms 19:11-12, Isaiah 48:6

 

[Dave Watchman]

What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather - Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2

They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2

They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14 [this is the situation today]


Only a remnant will survive in the Holy Land - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13



Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

I think it's going to be something different.

I think that you're mixing Judaic prophecy from the OT with the Day of the Lord prophecy and the end time apocalyptic prophecy from Revelation.

I think many of the things, the two witnesses, the 144,000, John measuring the Temple with a measuring rod and the composite beast has already opened it's mouth to blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. That means the Antichrist is here now, giving it his power and his throne and his great authority. It's like a trbulum of the Matrix where everyone is walking around like things are normal, but they're not.

That means the 6th seal is open now. We froze in time after the "darkened sun" when the 7th seal was opened in the midst of the sixth. The opening of the seventh, in the midst of the sixth, has put us into lock-down mode. Freeze frame mode. Suspended animation. However you want to describe it. Heaven has gone silent. The prophetic voice has gone silent, for about the space of half an hour. Half a "hora". Where the half an hour, half a "hora", means a time, a season or half a year.

The Calvinists have this part covered somewhere in their Westminster Confession of Faith when they talk about the elect infantry, or the infantry of the elect. They had to be right and the Devil knew it. The Devil has been able to push the timing of this further out into the future, working through the composite beast, by popularizing abortion around the world. He's doing a similar thing to what he was doing when Jesus was a baby, the slaughter of the innocents. We are waiting for the train to fill up, because it's not coming back for another load.

And he couldn't kill them all. While we wait for our brothers and fellow servants to enter into the world. Jesus will not lose any that the Father gives Him. But this is one specification that only the Father knows, no man can know, not even the angels of heaven.

Time in Bible Times
By Charles Francis Potter

The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, meaning Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly succession of the processes of nature.

"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use.

Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."
Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length.

There were astronomers then, to be sure, who had carefully worked out the exact length of the day from their observation of the stars and the equinoxes, and had divided the day into 24 equal parts or hours, like the ones we use today. These they measured by a clever mechanical device which they called the clepsydra, literally the water-stealer, a primitive forerunner of the clock.

But the common people of New Testament times, in their homes and in business, knew nothing of the day of 24 equal hours. To them the day was the period between sunrise and sunset, and that was divided into 12 equal parts called hours. Of course, the hours were therefore much longer in summer than in winter. In mid- winter their hour was equal to only three-fourths of one of our hours and in midsummer was as long as our hour and a quarter. But in their leisurely method of living, they did not worry about such small matters.

Practically, too, Jesus' contemporaries did not even bother very much with separate hours. They used mostly the third, sixth and ninth hours, meaning mid-forenoon, noon and mid-afternoon. As a matter of fact, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth and 12th hours are never mentioned in the New Testament at all. The 11th hour is referred to twice, but in the same story; and the seventh and tenth hours are mentioned but once each. And in half the places where any hour is mentioned, it is prefaced by the word "about." "About the ninth hour" is a common phrase, and meant evidently "along some time in the afternoon."
​

1941JRASC..35..163P Page 163

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
I would not be a LIAR here unless it could be proved that i made the above statements, with the knowledge that they are false, ....

When someone proves another person wrong, and they refuse to validate their position and continue with their assertions, then they BECOME a liar.

Now if you're interested in validating the TRUTH, -- I'm MORE than willing to have that discussion. But it will START with SCRIPTURE, not what you assert is "scripture" ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

What you believe does not relate to the actual Bible evidence.
What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather - Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2

They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2

They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14 [this is the situation today]
....

All you're doing is providing unrelated Scripture and trying to make it fit your own order of events for the end.

All I need show is this, the time pulling from the Old Testament prophets...

2 Peter 3:10-11
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
KJV

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

Three things happen on that "day of the Lord", which is the very LAST DAY of this present world:

1. Jesus returns on that day
2. God's consuming fire burns man's works off the surface of this earth, on that day
3. A sudden destruction is that result upon the wicked on that day

Those 3 events will happen very quickly, on the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial. It will end... this present world, and Satan's reign over it.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... that "day of the Lord", which is the very LAST DAY of this present world ...

Words based upon a human expectation, -- not Scripture ...


There's a LOT of human expectations in the church, and very little Scriptural basis,
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

Words based upon a human expectation, -- not Scripture ...


There's a LOT of human expectations in the church, and very little Scriptural basis,
Bobby Jo

The truth is not in you. When presented with the very Scripture of Truth, you deny it when it's right in front of you.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The truth is not in you. When presented with the very Scripture of Truth, you deny it when it's right in front of you.

Spit it out. You defy the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, and ascribe ancient fulfillments for Dan. 11. And you can't arrive to your assertions, but instead jump over those verses which you can't explain. So in your words: The truth is not in YOU! :)

If you had any TRUTH, you'd start at 11:2, and then see where you arrive at from the rest of the Chapter. But people like you discredit others without cause, so that nobody will look at your prevarications/distortions/misrepresentations. -- Are you perchance a DEMOCRAT? ( ... Look everyone, Trump is conspiring with Ukraine ... )

Bobby Jo

 

[Philip James]

We love because he first loved us.

If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God 5 whom he has not seen.

This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar ...

"Get thee behind me Satan"; "Peter, you're a hypocrite"; "Jesus rebuked them".

Was that "hate", or was that "love"? -- You seem to think that life is like frosting, all sugary and sweet, but that ain't how it is. WE ARE REQUIRED to judge the Prophets, (and thereby the Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers), -- AND EACH OTHER.


That's the difference between christianity (small "c") and Christianity (capital "C").
Bobby Jo

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

"Get thee behind me Satan"; "Peter, you're a hypocrite"; "Jesus rebuked them".

Was that "hate", or was that "love"? -- You seem to think that life is like frosting, all sugary and sweet, but that ain't how it is. WE ARE REQUIRED to judge the Prophets, (and thereby the Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers), -- AND EACH OTHER.


That's the difference between christianity (small "c") and Christianity (capital "C").
Bobby Jo

I can understand Jesus judging, which is the one who said that to Peter. I however don't think any of us to be equal to Jesus so I don't think any of us should be judging. We can disagree without judging or name calling.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I can understand Jesus judging, ...

... but PAUL WAS WRONG in calling a DISCIPLE a HYPOCRITE?!? -- WHAT?


Yeah, there's a lot of hypocrisy/dishonesty/religiosity and ignorance in christianity (small "c"). Please don't add to it.
Bobby Jo

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

... but PAUL WAS WRONG in calling a DISCIPLE a HYPOCRITE?!? -- WHAT?


Yeah, there's a lot of hypocrisy/dishonesty/religiosity and ignorance in christianity (small "c"). Please don't add to it.
Bobby Jo

Seem to me you're doing all the adding. You need no help from anyone else to add the ignorance or hypocrisy, you're doing an excellent job in that department.