Nation born in a day in 1948?
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Not really sure what you are trying to say. The chapter cited shows when. If when doesn't matter why bring up 1948? 1948 sure is not when the things I posted from your chapter happened. If you don't like when, then what is your issue? How, why, what..etc? Keep us posted. When we see this stuff it is obviously in the future after He comes.
Not only was 1948 the fulfillment of prophesy, but there continued existence has seen one miracle after another, especially right off the bat in 1948 when they had virtually no military and were attacked by six Arab nations who’s goal was their complete destruction, and Israel won - with repeated instances of miraculous events in each war they’ve had since then.
Maranatha
Maranatha
Chapter and verse?
That does not mean God slew their enemies, their enemies are very much here today. Nor is Israel repentant and saved. Far from it. When God brings them back, they will have no more enemies they will all be dead.
The re-establishment of the Jewish state in 1948 has not only thrown a wrench in amillennial thinking, but it has also thrown a chink in much of premillennial thinking. Amazingly, some premillennialists have concluded that the present state of Israel has nothing to do with the fulfillment of prophecy. For some reason the present state some how does not fit their scheme of things, and so the present state becomes merely an accident of history.
On what grounds is the present state of Israel so dismissed? The issue that bothers so many premillennialists is the fact that not only have the Jews returned in unbelief with regard to the person of Jesus, but the majority of the ones who have returned are not even Orthodox Jews.
In fact the majority are atheists or agnostics. Certainly, then, Israel does not fit in with all those biblical passages dealing with the return. For it is a regenerated nation that the Bible speaks of, and the present state of Israel hardly fits that picture. So on these grounds, the present state is dismissed as not being a fulfillment of prophecy.
However, the real problem is the failure to see that the prophets spoke of two international returns. First, there was to be a regathering in unbelief in preparation for judgment, namely the judgment of the tribulation. This was to be followed by a second world-wide regathering in faith in preparation for blessing, namely the blessings of the messianic age. Once it is recognized that the Bible speaks of two such regatherings, it is easy to see how the present state of Israel fits into prophecy.
First World-Wide Gathering in Unbelief -
In 1948 when the modern state of Israel was born, it not only became an important stage setting development but began an actual fulfillment of specific Bible prophecies about an international regathering of the Jews in unbelief before the judgment of the tribulation. Such a prediction is found in the following Old Testament passages: Ezekiel 2:20:33-38; 22:17-22; 36:22-24; 37:1–14; Isa. 11:11-12; Zeph. 2:1-2 and Ezek. 38–39 presupposes such a setting.
Zephaniah 1:14-18 is one of the most colorful descriptions of “The Day of the LORD,” which we commonly call the tribulation period.
Zephaniah 2:1-2 says that there will be a world-wide regathering of Israel before the day of the LORD. “Gather yourselves together, yes, gather, O nation without shame, before the decree takes effect—the day passes like the chaff—before the burning anger of the LORD comes upon you, before the day of the LORD’s anger comes upon you.”
Ezekiel 20:33–38 speaks of a regathering, which must take place before the tribulation. The passage speaks of bringing the nation of Israel back “from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm and with wrath poured out” (Ezek. 20:34). “With wrath poured out” is a descriptive reference to the tribulation.
Thus, in order this to occur in history, Israel must be back in the land before the tribulation. This passage clearly says that it is the Lord who is bringing them back. The current nation of Israel is in the process of fulfilling this passage.
Two chapters later, Ezekiel receives another revelation about a future regathering of national Israel (Ezek. 22:17–22). This time, the Lord is “going to gather you into the midst of Jerusalem” (Ezek. 22:19). Like the metallurgist, the Lord will use the fire of the tribulation to purge out the unfaithful. The Lord is going to “gather you [Israel] and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted in the midst of it” (Ezek. 22:21). Once again, “My wrath” depicts the time of the tribulation. It also follows here that the nation must be regathered before that event can take place. The outcome of this event will be that the nation “will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath on you” (Ezek. 22:22). For this to occur, there must be a regathering by the Lord of Israel to the land, just like we see happening with the modern state of Israel. God is at work through the current state of Israel.
Surely, anyone who claims to believe in a national future for Israel would have to say that the valley of dry bones prophecy in some way, shape, or form relates to modern Israel (Ezek. 37:1–14). The prophet describes a future process through which the nation of Israel will come to be reconstituted and (when the process is complete) enter into a faithful spiritual relationship with the Lord. This multi stage process must surely include the current nation of Israel, in unbelief, that is being prepared to go through a time that will lead to her conversion to Jesus as their Messiah. This is said by Ezekiel to be a work of the Lord (Ezek. 37:14). Thus, the modern state of Israel is a work of God and biblically significant.
Second World-Wide Gathering in Belief -
Many passages in the Bible speak of Israel’s regathering, in belief, at the end of the tribulation, in conjunction with Christ’s second coming, in preparation for commencement of the millennium. These references are not being fulfilled by the modern state of Israel. Some of the citations include: Deut. 4:29-31; 30:1-10; Isa. 27:12-13; 43:5-7; Jer. 16:14- 15; 31:7-10; Ezek. 11:14-18; Amos 9:14-15; Zech. 10:8-12; Matt. 24:31 and many more.
Matthew 24:31, records a future regathering of Israel, this time in belief. “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Matt. 24:31). This is said to take place after the tribulation (Matt. 24:29), which would be the second coming.
It did not perturb bible prophesy one little bit.
Israel has to be there to get invaded, and etc. So it fulfills prophesy. It does not fulfill prophesy about how God will bring them back after they repent and wipe out their enemies etc.
Strawman argument. It is not that 'either God has brought them back, or it is all a fluke'. He knew they would be here. When He brings them back it is after He comes and they repent.
No. They are unbelievers and a secular state. A remnant will be saved, and that will be 'all Israel' that is left alive basically. That was not in 1948. Jesus is not ruling from Jerusalem now if you notice.
Also on the grounds that when God wipes out all their enemies it will be no secret and no one will be able to deny it! When they repent we will also know it. When He rules we will also know it. Etc. 1948 was not even remotely close.
Chapter and verse?
So let's see the evidence, chapter and verse that GOD gathers them for the trib?
Chap 2 has only 10 verses, try again.
Ezekiel 33:28
For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through.
Nothing to do with some gathering before the Great Tribulation.
Earlier in this chapter we see who it is talking to..
And it came to pass in the twelfth year of our captivity, in the tenth month, in the fifth day of the month, that one that had escaped out of Jerusalem came unto me, saying, The city is smitten.
That was not 1948!
Nothing in there about the end time, sorry. This commentary for example
Verses 1-31
Ezekiel 22:1-31 God Reveals to Ezekiel the Bloody City of Jerusalem - The leaders of God’s children (prophets, priests, princes in this passage of Scripture) are held in heavy responsibility for not fulfilling their offices.
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/ghe/ezekiel-22.html
Once again, a misapplication.
Ezekiel 36:24
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Ezekiel 36:25
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
When HE takes them out of nations to that land they are clean! That was not 1948 by any stretch of the imagination.
Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Ezekiel 37:13
And ye shall know that I am the Lord , when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Ezekiel 37:14
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord .
That is not 1948! It is after they repent and He makes them clean and then brings them to the land.
Isaiah 11:10
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Jesus is the Root of Jesse. That was not 1948.
Zephaniah 2:3
Seek ye the Lord , all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord 's anger.
1948 was not the day of His anger. Nor did Israel seek Jesus.
No. He talks to the enemies of Israel about how they will invade. Prophesy does acknowldge that a nation will exist in the end, yes of course. God only brings them there after that, when they face all that time of Jacob's trouble and the remnant repent at last. That was sure not 1948!
Yes and it says nothing at all about God bringing them back till after that time.
As this commentary explains, this is basically God begging them to repent before all these things happen. They won't. They only do late in the very end.
"Verse Zephaniah 2:1. Gather yourselves — Others, sift yourselves. Separate the chaff from the wheat, before the judgments of God fall upon you. O nation not desired - unlovely, not delighted in; hated because of your sin. The Israelites are addressed."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/acc/zephaniah-2.html#verse-1
Look at verse 33!
Ezekiel 20:33
As I live, saith the Lord God , surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
He will one day. Surely you do not claim that was 1948!!? He explains the things that will happen before they get to that place. They will suffer, etc. Right after this He makes it clear!
Ezekiel 20:41
I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
At that time ALL the world and every one alive will see that God did it.
Ezekiel 20:48
And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it: it shall not be quenched.
Yes it must. They bring their little selves back there, unrepentant. Only after the time of Jacob's trouble will GOD bring them back for real and wipe out their enemies, and give them real peace etc.
This commentary does not place this in the end times, rather in history.
"Verse Ezekiel 22:19. I will gather you — Jerusalem is represented here as the fining pot; all the people are to be gathered together in it, and the Chaldean fire is to melt the whole. And God will increase thy sufferings: as the refiner blows the fire with his bellows, so God will blow upon you with the fire of his wrath, Ezekiel 22:21."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/acc/ezekiel-22.html#verse-19
You cannot take things out of time and context to mean what you like, ignoring the rest of the bible.
No. Just because God compares Israel to dead bones and shows how He will fix it all one day does not mean He brought them to the land. The work of God is Jesus and when Israel repents, they will see Him work. The mere fact that Israel exists as a nation to be judged and invaded does not mean God set that up. When He brings them back He will rule. God says He restores them one day, He does not say He blesses sin or secular nations. He deals with them in that final time, and that is largely what that period is for.
That seems to be a gathering of His people worldwide. Not just Jews. There will be many new believers. There also will be many Jewish new believers. I do not see this verse saying 'Israel' You do realize His elect mean more than Israel?
Romans 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Blindness in part has happened to WHO?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
To those who are in Christ. They see through a stained glass very dimly, as your question shows.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You don’t understand 2 different WHEN’s?
When I met my wife is not when we got married and that is not when we had children and not when we got divorced.
For some reason, you are demanding that other WHEN’s must coincide with 1948.
One saint told me he believes Jesus’ story about the fig tree ties the next WHEN to the Jews alive in 1948 die off.
Romans 11:25
blindness in part has happened to Israel
You're saying those who believe in Christ are blind, but the scripture says exactly the opposite:
John 12:39-40
Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them."
How is it that you 100% misunderstand the very verse you chose your username from?
Do you hate the Root so much, that in order to pretend Israel doesn't exist, you deny these things?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I believe the root is Christ, and when it comes to Israel, in my opinion the part of the flock of Christ which believes that there are two Israels, with one consisting of genetic seed who are not in Christ through faith in Christ, and two covenants - one for them and one for us - is partially blinded.
It's my opinion. It's what I believe the scriptures are teaching. I believe the scriptures say that when Christ had died and risen again, most of the genetic seed were broken off, but the remnant remained, and Gentiles who believe are grafted into Israel among them (because Israel did not cease to exist).
Yes, Paul is calling the Jews who do not believe in Christ "Israel" when he says that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in - but that is not = "Paul is speaking of two Israels in Romans chapters 9-11". There is and always remains one Israel, and I don't buy the Replacement Theology slur invented by those who replace one Israel with another by saying that those who are not in Christ are nevertheless Israel in God's eyes.
That's my understanding of the scriptures and I do not hold it against you if you believe I'm wrong - but your believing I'm wrong does not change my understanding of who Israel is.
The when is when Jesus returns and brings them back and keeps them safe. That has nothing to do with your anniversary or any time in history such as 1948.
Off base twistings and contortions of verses that do not show God restoring or gathering Israel in this end time actually. I pointed out clearly how. Read it. When He brings them from the nations we will know it, and He will be right there as their Shepherd in Person. Just because Israel will be there to be invaded does not mean He gathered and called them there. Those who claim that must think that bombing the King David hotel and etc etc etc is cool and what He wanted.
