Need some help on this verse...binding things on earth

[bbyrd009]

More importantly it is evidence for or against us.

so then how can works be irrelevant?

 

[bbyrd009]

The questions was: has not Satan already been bound from having any power or dominion over their "life" in Christ?

yes, and it appeared that the answer was becoming an unqualified "yes," despite all of the evidence to the contrary

Are you saying that all those countless believers that speak faith over an illness are wrong and Satan still holds power over the flesh?

do any believers do this, and yet do not get healed? then yes, at least sometimes. Often. whatever

Isaiah 53:5 KJV
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

so then satan has no power over our flesh, yet believers pray for healing and often do not get it. hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

A kingdom that is GREATER overcomes the kingdom of this world.

i totally agree, therefore i suggest that the "believer" who prays and does not receive should pause and reflect

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yes, and it appeared that the answer was becoming an unqualified "yes," despite all of the evidence to the contrary

do any believers do this, and yet do not get healed? then yes, at least sometimes. Often. whatever
so then satan has no power over our flesh, yet believers pray for healing and often do not get it. hmm

The flesh is not top priority but I am not sure many want to hear that. More importantly.:.what Job gained through the trial. Satan's broken power becomes our praise of God...in the midst of pain(flesh)

 

[bbyrd009]

Romans 8:37-39 KJV
[37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to

hmm, "shall be able to," rather than a simple "will." This might be a crux, but i am not scholar enough to extract the tense of the phrase--perhaps you are? why not just "will" there, iow?

 

[bbyrd009]

Was what happened to Job....for good or for evil?

hmm. imo from our vantage point, "good," but i would say that that is because we have the advantage of hindsight there. Iow if what happened to Job had manifested in his cursing God, would it have been perceived as "for evil?" but see that i am using satan's dialectic now, strictly because to most believers' perceptions of Job, "evil" was done to him for no discernable reason, "Job is a story about why bad (evil) things happen to 'good' people."

so iow ignore this post, i changed the subject

 

[bbyrd009]

Job 42:5-6 KJV
[5] I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. [6] Wherefore I abhor myself , and repent in dust and ashes.

what did Job even repent of, do you think?

 

[bbyrd009]

The questions was: has not Satan already been bound from having any power or dominion over their "life" in Christ?

just to keep it on top for a minute. seems the Q remains

 

[twinc]

Matthew 18:18,19 - "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth
shall have been bound in heaven;
and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

I have read diff explanations but I still don't get what it means, exactly.

here as elsewhere you will get many and different and confusing interpretations and answers and this is the major problem of and with a divided Christianity - a big mistake and major cause of division and confusion is applying to ourselves or others what does not apply- what does or does not apply is obvious but the problem arises with whatn is not really so obvious and is applied instead of disregarded - here is an example of what does not apply to us imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

ah

 

[Richard_oti]

hmm, "shall be able to," rather than a simple "will." This might be a crux, but i am not scholar enough to extract the tense of the phrase--perhaps you are? why not just "will" there, iow?

It is future tense. No different though than speaking of the next minute. Shall we go to the store? And to the store we go.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is future tense. No different though than speaking of the next minute. Shall we go to the store? And to the store we go.

ok then. Figure it applies to us?

 

[jimd]

ok then. Figure it applies to us?

For those who have the attention span and intelligence to absorb it, John Gill does as good a job of explaining this as any I have heard: The sense of the words is this, that Peter, and so the rest of the apostles, should be empowered with authority from him, and so directed by his Holy Spirit, that whatever they bound, that is, declared to be forbidden, and unlawful, should be so: and that whatever they loosed, that is, declared to be lawful, and free of use, should be so; and accordingly they bound some things which before were loosed, and loosed some things which before were bound; for instance, they bound, that is, prohibited, or declared unlawful, the use of circumcision, which before, and until the death of Christ, was enjoined the natural seed of Abraham; but that, and all ceremonies, being abolished by the death of Christ, they declared it to be nothing, and of no avail, yea, hurtful and pernicious; that whoever was circumcised, Christ profited him nothing, and that he was a debtor to do the whole law: they affirmed, that the believing Gentiles were not to be troubled with it; that it was a yoke not fit to be put upon their necks, which they, and their fathers, were not able to bear, #Ga 5:1,3,6 Ac 15:10,19. They bound, or forbid the observance of days, months, times, and years; the keeping holy days, new moons, and sabbaths, which had been used in the Jewish church for ages past; such as the first day of the new year, and of every month, the day of atonement, the feasts of the passover, pentecost, and tabernacles, the jubilee year, the sabbatical year, and seventh day sabbath, #Ga 4:9,10 Col 2:16,17. They loosed, or declared lawful and free, both civil and religious conversation between Jews and Gentiles; whereas, before, the Jews had no dealings with the Gentiles, nor would not enter into their houses, nor keep company with them, would have no conversation with them; neither eat, nor drink with them; but now it was determined and declared, that no man should be called common, or unclean; and that in Christ Jesus, and in his church, there is no distinction of Jew and Gentile, #Ac 10:28 11:2,3,18 Ga 3:28. They also loosed, or pronounced lawful, the eating of any sort of food, without distinction, even that which was before counted common and unclean, being persuaded by the Lord Jesus Christ, by the words he said, #Mt 15:11. They asserted, that there is nothing unclean of itself; and that the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; or that true religion does not lie in the observance of those things; that every creature of God is good, and fit for food, and nothing to be refused, or abstained from, on a religious account, provided it be received with thanksgiving, #Ro 14:14,17 1Ti 4:4. And these things now being by them bound or loosed, pronounced unlawful or lawful, are confirmed as such by the authority of God, and are so to be considered by us

 

[jimd]

And yes it probably applies to us insomuch as we are able proclaim the Gospel and the truth of the scriptures, be it by word or actions.

 

[bbyrd009]

And yes it probably applies to us insomuch as we are able proclaim the Gospel and the truth of the scriptures, be it by word or actions.

i might even suggest that the passage applies to anyone, not just those we deem "saved." Only it is kind of hard to verbalize. That the last 5 of the decalogue predate Moses comes to mind; iow "don't do murder" was bound on earth, by those we would deem "pagan" now, and also in heaven

 

[Helen]

what did Job even repent of, do you think?

whoops...posted without adding my comment.

My guess is...Job 13 15 "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before Him."
We always see Job complimented on His great faith...but until we get to the end of the book of Job...he also had faith in his own actions for righteousness.
He all know the first half of this verse...but who quotes the second half? :)

I believe he repented from that.

 

[bbyrd009]

whoops...posted without adding my comment.

My guess is...Job 13 15 "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before Him."
We always see Job complimented on His great faith...but until we get to the end of the book of Job...he also had faith in his own actions for righteousness.
He all know the first half of this verse...but who quotes the second half? :)

hmm. do you perceive that Job was condemned anywhere for his "ways" then?

 

[Helen]

hmm. do you perceive that Job was condemned anywhere for his "ways" then?

Haha! You asked, I answered...I stand by that. :)

 

[Richard_oti]

ok then. Figure it applies to us?

Indubitably.

 

[Richard_oti]

<snip>
whatever they bound, that is, declared to be forbidden, and unlawful, should be so: and that whatever they loosed, that is, declared to be lawful, and free of use, should be so;
<snip>

From my perspective, I must disagree with what Gill had to say there. For IF that were to be the case, whereever two or three should be gathered, could they not also change nearly anything they so chose? Inclusive of the doctrines of whatever church? And in so doing, attempt to start a "religion" of their own choosing and making. Let us learn the lesson of Jeroboam:

1Ki 12:32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he went up unto the altar; so did he in Beth-el, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Beth-el the priests of the high places that he had made. 33 And he went up unto the altar which he had made in Beth-el on the fifteenth day in the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart: and he ordained a feast for the children of Israel, and went up unto the altar, to burn incense.

If we look at Matthew 18:

Mat 18:17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

If we remove the authority of the TaNaKh, we also remove the foundation upon which the NT stands. If we remove enough of the authority, we are left basically with a form of Mithricism. Yes, I am using hyperbole.


Have we not learned:

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law;

If this "little horn" speaks against the Most High and "think" to attempt to change the set times and law, how would we discern this IF other(s) may change them by "binding and loosing"?