NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

[Timtofly]

Learn the difference between Jesus taking away our sin once for all 2,000 years ago, and sin still being in the world.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

I am as confused as John is. You have totally missed John's point.

 

[Zao is life]

The verse does not state that, even if what you say is true. No one is arguing against what Jesus did at the first coming. The verse is declaring what Jesus will do at the Second Coming, after the fulness of the Gentiles is brought in.

The blindness in part is there until the Second Coming. The fulness of the Gentiles stops at the Second Coming. Israel will have her blindness removed and sin removed at the Second Coming. That was Paul's point.

You do not even realize what you are saying. You are saying that no Jewish person can be saved until Jesus comes back, and you are saying that no Jewish person has been saved and neither has anyone else been saved since the Deliverer came out of Zion and took away ungodliness from Jacob, making a covenant with them when He took away their sins.

At the second coming Jesus is coming in judgment of all unbelievers. He will not come to take away ungodliness from Jacob and make a covenant with them by taking away their sins.

Only in your and all Dispensationalists' fantasy world is Jesus (the Deliverer) going to be making a covenant with anyone and taking away anyone's sins when He comes back.​

 

[Zao is life]

The Deliver came out of Zion and took away ungodliness from Jacob (the house of Israel and the house of Judah), making a covenant with them (the new covenant) in the day he took away their (and our) sins.

Jesus will not return to die a second time for the sins of the world.

But sin is still in the world, and needs to be removed.

That is why the verse has not been fulfilled, even though you claim it cannot be ever fulfilled.

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

I did not claim it cannot ever be fulfilled. I said it has already been fulfilled, once for all, and will not be fulfilled again when Jesus come back.

Please do not misrepresent what I say. It makes you a liar and a deceiver.

Sin is still in the world but it has already been removed once for all in the blood of Christ. That's the gospel that has been preached in all the world for the last 2,000 years.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

I am as confused as John is. You have totally missed John's point.

You are indeed extremely confused Tim, because it is you who are missing John's point, because the above does not mean that the Deliverer has not yet come out of Zion, making a covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (the new covenant) in the day He took away their sins, nearly 2,000 years ago - which is what you were claiming:

But sin is still in the world, and needs to be removed.

That is why the verse has not been fulfilled, even though you claim it cannot be ever fulfilled.

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Learn the difference between Jesus taking away our sin once for all 2,000 years ago, and sin still being in the world.

Also notice that John's first point which you quoted is that if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we will have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, shed for sins nearly 2,000 ago, cleanses us from all sin.

You are not walking in the light if you claim Jesus will take away sin when He returns - because He has already done that, once for all, when He shed His blood and died, nearly 2,000 years ago. He is not coming to take away anyone's sin when He returns. He is coming in judgment of all who do not believe in Him, Jews and Gentiles alike, and to deliver all who believe in Him, Jews and Gentiles in Christ, from their tribulation at the hands of the beast's armies.

Your Dispy buddies have been liking every post of yours and your posts are becoming more coherent, albeit still contradictory. Makes it seem like you have your Dispy buddies sending you PM with posts for you to copy and paste because they know I have them on ignore

(Not saying it is the case that they are sending you stuff to post via PM but it sure makes it look like it).

Anyway, I'm going to put any more of your posts in this thread about this subject on ignore too now, because the subject has been exhausted.

 

[Timtofly]

You do not even realize what you are saying. You are saying that no Jewish person can be saved until Jesus comes back, and you are saying that no Jewish person has been saved and neither has anyone else been saved since the Deliverer came out of Zion and took away ungodliness from Jacob, making a covenant with them when He took away their sins.

At the second coming Jesus is coming in judgment of all unbelievers. He will not come to take away ungodliness from Jacob and make a covenant with them by taking away their sins.

Only in your and all Dispensationalists' fantasy world is Jesus (the Deliverer) going to be making a covenant with anyone and taking away anyone's sins when He comes back.​

That is not what I am saying at all. You are the confused one. I have repeatedly stated Paul was not talking about the first coming, and yet you insist he was. That is your argument, not mine.

Tell me how did living under the Law save anyone, yet they were saved as long as they did remain under the Law in belief? Don't you think you can loose your salvation, if you start to disbelieve? So who is saving who, you or God?

Paul is not talking about salvation, but you have hijacked Paul's whole point and made it about salvation.

The Covenent was made with Abraham. The Promise was given to Adam and Eve. Why do you think that would be a new Covenant? The Covenant was in place prior to creation. You claim there are no dispensations. Yet you still phrase your argument as if there are.

Think about who changes, because it certainly is not God. There was a change at the Cross. We as humans were no longer under the Law, but that does not mean those under the Law had no grace, nor being under grace means we can keep breaking the Law as we please. Pall says we should not continue in sin, but yet you cannot say sin has been removed, now that we are no longer under the Law. The Law is not sin, as Paul explained, because sin still existed even without the Law. But sin was not imputed. So the Law only pointed out our sin, it did not take sin away. The Cross did not remove sin, but removed the Law, as that is when the veil of the temple was torn. Now the Law has not stopped sin from happening, nor has grace stopped sin from happening. The Cross did not stop sin, it was the ultimate point of the Law, as the Lamb of God. The Cross stopped sin once and for all in place of the Law, by not needing a priest to stand between you and God over and over again. The Cross did not remove humanity from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The OT promises were not just about the Cross but the eradication of sin and the removal out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The penalty of death was removed and the second birth created a new family of life in Christ.

Israel was not redeemed because they were under the Law. Isreal was redeemed because they were natural branches despite the Law. Now that the type placed in the Law as the redemptive work, ie the blood of bulls was finished at the Cross, they could no longer be natural branches, as Jesus pointed out to Nicodemus the second birth that being of Israel under the Law typified.

The blindness in part was the removal of the Law. Not that they were spiritually blinded any more or less than those outside of Israel. Those who maintained the Law were also spiritually blinded as humans forcing one's self under spiritual blindness in maintaining the Law. They saw the Law as their birthright. You see the Law as their spiritual blindness. In asserting you are in Israel you are asserting their Law economy, because that is their birthright.

The Second Coming is not reinstating the Law as means of removing sin. The Second Coming is the total removal out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and the eradication of sin forever. Once out of Adam's flesh, one does not need redemption, as they are no longer in a state of death, but everlasting righteousness and life.

 

[Timtofly]

I did not claim it cannot ever be fulfilled. I said it has already been fulfilled, once for all, and will not be fulfilled again when Jesus come back.

How can it be fulfilled again, if it already was? I pointed out that you claim it cannot ever be fulfilled, because that is what you do exactly claim in that it was already fulfilled.

You are the one saying it cannot be fulfilled at the Second Coming, so not misrepresenting you nor lying.

Your words right there:

I said it has already been fulfilled, once for all, and will not be fulfilled again when Jesus come back.

That means it cannot ever be fulfilled.

I never claimed you said it was never fulfilled. That would be lying. My claim is it cannot ever be fulfilled is based on your point it was already fulfilled. My point does not say it cannot be fulfilled. But cannot ever, based on your own understanding that it has been.

I am not denying your point, I am adding to it that it cannot be fulfilled at the Second Coming. But you insist that sin is removed, when it has not been, as we are still born into Adam's dead corruptible flesh that constantly sins. You won't even acknowledge that point, because then you would not be consistent in your strawman fallacy you keep accusing me of.

 

[Timtofly]

Learn the difference between Jesus taking away our sin once for all 2,000 years ago, and sin still being in the world.

Learn the point that sin was removed once and for all even before creation. Who is relying on the physical place in history (dispensationalism), not understanding that sin was removed before it even entered? Enoch figured that out thousands of years before Jesus came to earth, the first time.

 

[covenantee]

In "Farewell to God", Templeton states that he became a "born again Christian" in 1936 when he asked Christ to come into his heart. He states that at that moment he felt "a radiant, overwhelming, all-pervasive happiness" as he whispered over and over "Thank you Lord. Thank you."

I think verse 14 in Hebrews 10 reiterates we can never lose salvation.
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

You're welcome to attempt to convince us that God did not save Charles Templeton.

"Eternally Grateful" failed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're welcome to attempt to convince us that God did not save Charles Templeton.

"Eternally Grateful" failed.

You won’t see it unless you want to. It’s not up for us to convince you.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

You're welcome to attempt to convince us that God did not save Charles Templeton.

"Eternally Grateful" failed.

I've attempted no such thing. Nor was that the intent of my posting. Thank you.