No authority!

[theefaith]

If baptism MAKES you righteous then "faith means nothing and the promise is worthless"-Romans 4:14. Justification is by faith APART FROM WORKS. (Remember, I discredited your redefinition of works by citing the example of circumcision).

faith is included in baptism
Mk 16:16 believes and is baptized
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

faith and baptism
Btw: how does the eunuch know about baptism? Philip preached Jesus, obviously faith alone Christ alone grace alone??????????????????

 

[Wrangler]

Christ is the head! But He ascended to heaven so now: who’s in charge
Or who is the head on earth in His place?

This question is loaded with doublespeak, implying Christ is only theoretically head but in practice some other guy is. He be Satan.

 

[theefaith]

This question is loaded with doublespeak, implying Christ is only theoretically head but in practice some other guy is. He be Satan.

reading scripture is useless cos you also have to believe it!

Jn 15:5 what does it say???????

 

[Wrangler]

reading scripture is useless cos you also have to believe it!

Jn 15:5 what does it say???????

It doesn't say the Pope is the head of the church.

 

[Taken]

Apostles in person or else how can you comply with Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 3:
[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

 

[justbyfaith]

In other words, Einstein - it doesn't matter that I left out verses 19-20 because they were irrelevant to the point.

In the original post, which was not #1186 but a post before it (#1170)... (No authority!)... the thing that you were responding to, had relevance to verses 19-20...and you conveniently left those verses out in your reply.

Very dishonest...

You've got to get it through your head that there are no more earthly priests. Not elders, not prophets, not teachers...priests. There is no need whatsoever for a human priest to represent you before God anymore. JESUS does that now,

The Bible tells us of the priesthood of all believers....that we go to God on behalf of men, in prayer...and we go to men on behalf of God, in evangelism.

I believe that the verse that I am thinking of is 1 Peter 2:9. You...the body of Christ...all those who genuinely believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour...are a royal priesthood.

 

[theefaith]

It doesn't say the Pope is the head of the church.

Then who is? Christ is the king and no king administers his own kingdom!

do you also have a problem with Joseph administering the kingdom under pharaoh?

 

[theefaith]

Heb 3:
[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

he ascended to heaven now what?
Who’s in charge?

do you also have a problem with Joseph administering the kingdom under pharaoh?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

faith is included in baptism
Mk 16:16 believes and is baptized

Faith itself, all by itself, apart from works, is what does the justifying. Getting baptized does not solicit justification as just payment for work completed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Anybody so gifted can do this....

...because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:15-16​

There is the office of evangelist, and there are those gifted in evangelism and who serve in no particular official office. Any believer can perform the priestly duty of, for example, leading people to Christ. You don't have to be a Catholic priest to do this. We don't need the Catholic church to do this. The Catholic priesthood is not the only ones that can do this.

2 Cor. 5:18-20. isn't about evangelism - it's about the ministry of Reconciliation.

In other words - it's about the forgiveness of sins, per John 290:21-23, when Jesus breathed on the Apostles and gave them the power to FORGIVE or RETAIN sins in His name.

As I illustrated earlier - there are ony TWO ijnstances in ALL of Scripture where God "breathes" on man:
- When God breathed life into Adam.
- When Jesus breathed the Holy spirit onto the Apostles, giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Nice try . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Tell me bowing down and kissing his ring is not the prescribed way Catholics are told they must approach the Pope.

Once again, Einstein - It's a CUSTOM - not a requirement.

 

[BreadOfLife]

A gentile'S pope.

Thaks for correcting your spelling - but it's STILL untrue.
The Pope is the Pope over the WHOLE Church - not just the Gentile portion.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Bible tells us of the priesthood of all believers....that we go to God on behalf of men, in prayer...and we go to men on behalf of God, in evangelism.

I believe that the verse that I am thinking of is 1 Peter 2:9. You...the body of Christ...all those who genuinely believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour...are a royal priesthood.

I made the distinction between what it means to be in priestly service to God according to Paul and Peter and how it differs from what the Catholics say it means. Catholics say their priesthood is the only authorized way for man to approach God. You and I know Jesus is now the only authorized way for man to approach God thus nullifying the need for any man to stand as priest between man and God. The Catholics are sure we are lost without their priestly interference, I mean, intervention.

 

[Taken]

he ascended to heaven now what?
Who’s in charge?

OF me. 24-7, My High Priest, Christ Jesus..

do you also have a problem with Joseph administering the kingdom under pharaoh?

Also, in addition to what?

 

[Taken]

Thaks for correcting your spelling - but it's STILL untrue.
The Pope is the Pope over the WHOLE Church - not just the Gentile portion.

LOL.
The Church is Christ Jesus' Church.
He is in Charge. He is the High Priest.
(NOT a Bishop, and NOT a Pope.)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Once again, Einstein - It's a CUSTOM - not a requirement.

You don't seem to realize I can discern what spirit you are of by your condescending remarks. And not so much that you are doing this, but by the fact that you won't stop when called out on them. That's how I know if I'm dealing with a true brother or sister when participating in on-line forums. True brothers and sisters respond to correction. Fake believers, or extremely immature believers don't.

But anyway, what's going on here is you are showing that you are a a religionist who thinks developing and believing accurate religious doctrines and procedures and ceremonies and worship is what it means to be a true believer that is accepted and approved by God. We have them on our side of the fence too. Little knowing that character according to the fruit of the Spirit is what it means to be a true believer, accepted and approved by God...and by men. God is not looking for the religious adornment of proper worship procedures and methodologies and beliefs. He's looking for the adornment of Christ's character. As I said early on, you have failed in that regard. You think your 'religion' makes you good with God. It does not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. You claim right of succession that is not in Scripture.

Christ is the head, not Peter’s descendants.

Nonsense.

Not only did I give you three Scriptural example - here's another one that I showed you back in post #1182:
In Acts 1, we read that the Aposles and over 100 others gather to elect a successor for Judas. In verse 20, Peter quotes the Psalms when he says:
Acts 1:20
"Let another take his office."

The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay" (Bishopric). Matthias, who was chosen was a successor to Judas - not a mere "replacement". Verse 20 makes it CLEAR that Judas held an "office" - a Bishopric.
This PROVES Apostolic succession from the Bible.

The writings pof the Early Church Fathers prove Apostolc succession from History:
Clement of Rome
Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry (Letter to the Corinthians 44:1 [A.D. 95]).

Ignatius of Antioch
You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8:1 [A.D. 107]).

Irenaeus
It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who, as we have shown, HAVE SUCCESSION FROM THE APOSTLES; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion (ibid 4:26:2).
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the SUCCESSIONS OF THE BISHOPS of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).

Clement of Alexandria
After the death of the tyrant, the [Apostle John] came back again to Ephesus from the Island of Patmos; and, upon being invited, he went even to the neighboring cities of the pagans, here to appoint bishops, there to set in order whole Churches, and there to ordain to the clerical estate such as were designated by the Spirit (Who is the Rich Man that is Saved? 42:2 [inter 190-210 A.D.]).

 

[theefaith]

Faith itself, all by itself, apart from works, is what does the justifying. Getting baptized does not solicit justification as just payment for work completed.

no,
It’s grace that saves
Which proves faith and baptism
Thru faith and the sacraments we enter the new covenant and the life of grace
But none are “saved” in this life but the next matt 24:13

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't seem to realize I can discern what spirit you are of by your condescending remarks. And not so much that you are doing this, but by the fact that you won't stop when called out on them. That's how I know if I'm dealing with a true brother or sister when participating in on-line forums. True brothers and sisters respond to correction. Fake believers, or extremely immature believers don't.

But anyway, what's going on here is you are showing that you are a a religionist who thinks developing and believing accurate religious doctrines and procedures and ceremonies and worship is what it means to be a true believer that is accepted and approved by God. We have them on our side of the fence too. Little knowing that character according to the fruit of the Spirit is what it means to be a true believer, accepted and approved by God...and by men. God is not looking for the religious adornment of proper worship procedures and methodologies and beliefs. He's looking for the adornment of Christ's character. As I said early on, you have failed in that regard. You think your 'religion' makes you good with God. It does not.

Another sanctinious lecture from a dishonest guy who keeps trying to perpetuate the LIE that Catholics "worship" the Pope - even thought you've been corrected on the matter SEVERAL times now.

You are te picture of self-righteousness.
Now I know what it must have been like to endure the hypocrisy of the Pharisees . . .

 

[theefaith]

Heb 3:
[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

so the apostles themselves are the successors of f Christ good
Jn 20:21-22