No authority!

[Amazed@grace]

No one has authority to read or study scripture for himself and form his own doctrine!

We must be taught by the church of Christ!
Lk 1:4 instructed:
Matt 28:19 church of apostles commanded to teach all nations:

Who would be the church of Christ?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Who would be the church of Christ?

Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells inb you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, brimming with knowledge, and able to instruct one another. Romans 15:14​

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells inb you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, brimming with knowledge, and able to instruct one another. Romans 15:14​

Have you ever wondered why men would teach that we cannot discern the scriptures on our own
and need Their so church . Watchtower , ROME , and many others have done this .
Any guesses why a man would ever teach that we must heed them , their church and that we cannot truly discern the scrips
without them .
A HINT , ITS CALLED KEEPING FOLKS IN SUBJECTION UNTO THEIR OWN WAYS , SO as THEY CAN KEEP THE CONTROL .
Exactly .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello jim jones . only let no man drink of the koolaide of leaders who would say we cannot discern Truth .
Its a way to simply maintain control . Folks do love to have the pre eminence .
But i say , TEST all leaders and test all who do speak . TO learn your bibles well .
GOD inspired the BIBLE . THUS if one has the SPIRIT and are HIS , THE SPIRIT can and does
give us wisdom , understanding and knowledge .
Test those leaders . Get in those bibles and make sure your churches are not being led
by men who can appear as men of righteousness , yet are deceivers cloaked in wool .
For we have many who now lead even the churches , and yet they are not leading
them to the true JESUS CHRIST , they are not leading them BUT TO DESTRUCTION and PERDITION of ungodly men .
GOD is with the lambs . Read those bibles and examine yourselves and any who does speak or teach .
For many decievers do abound , and no marvel for as satan can appear as an angel of light
His workers , his men sure can appear as though they are one of us . BUT They are NOT . they are there to decieve
and they have one common goal . TO JUST gather the faiths and all religons and even the world to be as ONE .
ITS all a sham . WE must learn JESUS and that means , LEARN THOSE BIBLES .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Have you ever wondered why men would teach that we cannot discern the scriptures on our own
and need Their so church . Watchtower , ROME , and many others have done this .
Any guesses why a man would ever teach that we must heed them , their church and that we cannot truly discern the scrips
without them .
A HINT , ITS CALLED KEEPING FOLKS IN SUBJECTION UNTO THEIR OWN WAYS , SO as THEY CAN KEEP THE CONTROL .
Exactly .

That's why I detest the way we 'do' church. It attracts those who love power and wealth. Until we get rid of the business model of doing church we will continue to be victims of these godless creeps who ruin the church on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant divide.

 

[Illuminator]

Who would be the church of Christ?

All who are baptized in Christ can rightly be called Christians. In that sense, it's the church of Christ. Even with varying degrees of separation from the historic Church, it's still one church by virtue of baptism. With that perspective, in your case, the church of Christ is the one you attend.

 

[Philip James]

That's why I detest the way we 'do' church. It attracts those who love power and wealth. Until we get rid of the business model of doing church we will continue to be victims of these godless creeps who ruin the church on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant divide.

Hmm.. Can't think of anyone I know who layed down his life for Christ and His Church seeking power and wealth..

Happy Easter!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[amigo de christo]

Hmm.. Can't think of anyone I know who layed down his life for Christ and His Church seeking power and wealth..

Happy Easter!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

You wont . the prosperity gospel is false as well . As is the emergent , the liberal theology , the pope francis leader ,
okay , i will stop at that cause i just dont have the time to write this list .
Folks , lets learn the true JESUS , which means open bibles and start learning , we have so many decievers in these days
And many of them also lead many , and i do say many churches who even claim to be christain . ITS a war all right and its for the souls of men .
LEARN that biblical JESUS , learn those bibles well and test all who do speak and or teach .

 

[Illuminator]

Joseph of Arimathea goes home and tells his wife he requested, and has been given, the Body of Jesus after the crucifixion.

Well, the Mrs. goes nuts for hours and is on a major rampage. She says, "How could you, we just had that hewn? Do you remember how long it took us to save up for that plot? Not one of our family members has even used it yet! You hardly knew him. Why would you use this new tomb for him?"
And on and on . . .

Exasperated, Joseph finally turns to her and says, “Take it easy, already! He’s only using it for the weekend.”

H/t Fr. Donald Calloway, MIC

(20+) Scott Hahn | Facebook

 

[CadyandZoe]

No one has authority to read or study scripture for himself and form his own doctrine!

We must be taught by the church of Christ!
Lk 1:4 instructed:
Matt 28:19 church of apostles commanded to teach all nations:

You fail to understand that we are all the church of Christ. And we are all taught of Jesus Christ through the writings of the apostles and prophets. In those writings we read such verses as,

Matthew 23:8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Take a closer look at the great commission passage.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

In this context Jesus specifies the only teachers we are to obey: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I will not listen to any Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, Preacher, Teacher, Pastor, or minister who teaches anything other than what these three teach.

Is it fear that keeps you in bondage? Do you not see the irony in your use of the scriptures to support your claims concerning authoritarianism?

 

[theefaith]

Who would be the church of Christ?

The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) same power mission and authority as Christ!

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one true church founded by Jesus christ! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

 

[theefaith]

You fail to understand that we are all the church of Christ. And we are all taught of Jesus Christ through the writings of the apostles and prophets. In those writings we read such verses as,

Matthew 23:8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Take a closer look at the great commission passage.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

In this context Jesus specifies the only teachers we are to obey: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I will not listen to any Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, Preacher, Teacher, Pastor, or minister who teaches anything other than what these three teach.

Is it fear that keeps you in bondage? Do you not see the irony in your use of the scriptures to support your claims concerning authoritarianism?

so you have the keys of the kingdom?
You have power to bind and loose, and feed the sheep?

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one true church founded by Jesus christ! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

 

[CadyandZoe]

so you have the keys of the kingdom?
You have power to bind and loose, and feed the sheep?

No. Why does this matter?

We discussed this before. Jesus gave the keys to the twelve apostles. No one else.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

There exists more than one kind of authority. You tend to confuse them.

1. the power or right to give orders
2. the power to influence others, especially because of one's recognized knowledge about something.

You think the Apostles had the first kind of authority. They did not. They had the second kind of authority, based on several qualifications: a. they were eyewitnesses to Jesus' walk, his teaching, and his miracles; b. they were personally sent by Jesus to speak in his name, and c. Jesus promised them that the Holy Spirit would help them remember what he taught, and he would authentic their message with miracles.

No body in the Catholic church has that. End of story.

 

[theefaith]

No. Why does this matter?

We discussed this before. Jesus gave the keys to the twelve apostles. No one else.

There exists more than one kind of authority. You tend to confuse them.

1. the power or right to give orders
2. the power to influence others, especially because of one's recognized knowledge about something.

You think the Apostles had the first kind of authority. They did not. They had the second kind of authority, based on several qualifications: a. they were eyewitnesses to Jesus' walk, his teaching, and his miracles; b. they were personally sent by Jesus to speak in his name, and c. Jesus promised them that the Holy Spirit would help them remember what he taught, and he would authentic their message with miracles.

No body in the Catholic church has that. End of story.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one true church founded by Jesus christ! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16


Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4
Why persecute thou me?

 

[theefaith]

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

 

[Illuminator]

No body in the Catholic church has that. End of story.

Who had the authority to compile the Holy Books into a Bible in 397 A.D.? This is the point where we go in circles refuting Bible origin fantasies and man made traditions.

The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.
Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels.

We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries,

We then take that and together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy.

Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as merely a historical book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, teaching authority, and, as a consequence of the last, infallibility.

Christ’s Church, to do what he said it would do, had to have the character of doctrinal infallibility.

We have thus taken purely historical material and concluded that a Church exists, namely, the Catholic Church, which is divinely protected against teaching doctrinal error. Now we are at the last premise of the argument.

This Catholic Church tells us the

(2)Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the
(1)Church is infallible.

Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—(1)that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—(2)that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.

 

[Marvelloustime]

You wont . the prosperity gospel is false as well . As is the emergent , the liberal theology , the pope francis leader ,
okay , i will stop at that cause i just dont have the time to write this list .
Folks , lets learn the true JESUS , which means open bibles and start learning , we have so many decievers in these days
And many of them also lead many , and i do say many churches who even claim to be christain . ITS a war all right and its for the souls of men .
LEARN that biblical JESUS , learn those bibles well and test all who do speak and or teach .

Amen brother. A big Amen to that.
Let us keep our eyes glued on the biblical Lord Jesus.
Get those bibles open. Noses in them and learn them well.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Who had the authority to compile the Holy Books into a Bible in 397 A.D.? This is the point where we go in circles refuting Bible origin fantasies and man made traditions.

The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.
Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels.

We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries,

We then take that and together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy.

Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as merely a historical book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, teaching authority, and, as a consequence of the last, infallibility.

Christ’s Church, to do what he said it would do, had to have the character of doctrinal infallibility.

We have thus taken purely historical material and concluded that a Church exists, namely, the Catholic Church, which is divinely protected against teaching doctrinal error. Now we are at the last premise of the argument.

This Catholic Church tells us the

(2)Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the
(1)Church is infallible.

Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—(1)that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—(2)that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.

I'm not sure how your post relates to mine?

 

[Illuminator]

I'm not sure how your post relates to mine?

c. Jesus promised them that the Holy Spirit would help them remember what he taught, and he would authentic their message with miracles.

The Apostles had been dead for 2 centuries before before the inspired books were compiled and made binding on all Christians. The authority you describe makes "remembering what He taught" into a mere historical event, not perpetual.

So, for example, when Jesus tells His disciples to preach the gospel or to baptize, virtually all Christians today think that this applies to all Christians in perpetuity. Yet when Jesus tells the same disciples to “bind and loose” (Matt 18:18; Jn 20:23; also to St. Peter individually in Matt 16:19), somehow that is not seen as a thing that is perpetually relevant through history, and is relegated to their time only.

This makes no sense. For one to take such a position, they have to establish a solid reason why they regard one instance as perpetual and the other as temporary. I contend that it can’t be done; that any such criterion would be completely arbitrary. Often, sadly, it comes down to merely a contra-Catholic mentality and rationale: “Catholics believe thus-and-so, and so we must oppose it, no matter what the Bible may state on the subject.”​

Biblical Arguments for Apostolic Succession

 

[Illuminator]

Fundamentalism is right to insist on the divine inspiration of the Bible, the inerrancy of the Word of God and other biblical truths included in its five fundamental points.

But their way of presenting these truths is rooted in an ideology which is not biblical, whatever the proponents of his approach might say.

For it demands an unshakable adherence to rigid doctrinal points of view and imposes, as the only source of teaching for Christian life and salvation, a reading of the Bible which rejects all questioning and any kind of critical research.
The basic problem with Fundamentalist interpretation of this kind is that, refusing to take into account the historical character of biblical revelation, it makes itself incapable of accepting the full truth of the Incarnation itself.

As regards relationships with God, Fundamentalism seeks to escape any closeness of the divine and the human. It refuses to admit that the inspired Word of God has been expressed in human language and that this Word has been expressed, under divine inspiration, by human authors possessed of limited capacities and resources.

For this reason, Fundamentalism tends to treat the biblical text as if it had been dictated word for word by the Spirit. It fails to recognize that the Word of God has been formulated in language and expression conditioned by various periods.

It pays no attention to the literary norms and to the human ways of thinking to be found in the biblical texts, many of which are the result of a process extending over long periods of time and bearing the mark of very diverse historical situations.

Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth.

Fundamentalism often historicizes material which from the start never claimed to be historical. It considers historical everything that is reported or recounted with verbs in the past tense, failing to take the necessary account of the possibility of symbolic or figurative meaning.
Fundamentalists often shows a tendency to ignore or to deny the problems presented by the biblical text in its original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek form. It is often narrowly bound to one fixed translation, whether old or present-day.

By the same token, it fails to take account of the "re-readings" (relectures) of certain texts which are found within the Bible itself.
In what concerns the Gospels, Fundamentalism does not take into account the development of the gospel tradition, but naively confuses the final stage of this tradition (what the evangelists have written) with the initial (the words and deeds of the historical Jesus).

At the same time Fundamentalism neglects an important fact: the way in which the first Christian communities themselves understood the impact produced by Jesus of Nazareth and his message.

But it is precisely there that we find a witness to the apostolic origin of the Christian faith and its direct expression. Fundamentalism thus misrepresents the call voiced by the gospel itself.
Fundamentalism likewise tends to adopt very narrow points of view. They accept the literal reality of an ancient, out-of-date cosmology, simply because it is found expressed in the Bible; this blocks any dialogue with a broader way of seeing the relationship between culture and faith.

Its relying upon a non-critical reading of certain texts of the Bible serves to reinforce political ideas and social attitudes that are marked by prejudices-racism, for example-quite contrary to the Christian gospel.

Finally, in its attachment to the principle "Scripture alone," Fundamentalism separates the interpretation of the Bible from the Tradition, which, guided by the Spirit, has authentically developed in union with Scripture in the heart of the community of faith.

It fails to realize that the New Testament took form within the Christian Church and that it is the Holy Scripture of this Church, the existence of which preceded the composition of the texts.

Because of this, fundamentalism is often anti-Church; it considers of little importance the creeds, the doctrines and liturgical practices which have become part of Church tradition, as well as the teaching function of the Church itself.

It presents itself as a form of private interpretation which does not acknowledge that the Church is founded on the Bible and draws its life and inspiration from Scripture.

The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem.

Without saying as much in so many words, Fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. They injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.