No Kisses among the brethren today?

[amadeus]

we now greet each other with a kiss which being autistic makes me quite oogey but i am doing it anyway, and i suspect there will be consequences too

"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." Rom 16:16

"All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss." I Cor 16:20

"Greet one another with an holy kiss." II Cor 13:12

"Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." I Thess 5:26

"Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen." I Peter 5:14

Many years ago I had an online friend who sincerely believed that brothers and sister in the Lord should be physically kissing each other in greetings. He had his own website in those days, which I visited a time or two to boost him a little bit, as he never had many visitors. How do people who are such strict Bible believers get past the kisses in places like the USA? Both Paul and Peter seems to be in support of it...

Was not Jesus rebuking this man for not giving him a kiss?

"Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet." Luke 7:45

 

[Joseph77]

How do people who are such strict Bible believers get past the kisses in places like the USA?

"Strict discipline" (almost NEVER seen in the usa) is required for life according to God.
Since even the thoughts of the heart make one guilty at once of sin if adultery, divorce, harming another, defiling the body (with tats or drugs), coveting, evil thoughts (like "I can get away with this, God won't care") ...
even the thoughts
the desires of the flesh and carnal mind of man
brings judgment,
how much more the acts thereof, including even those supposedly 'excused' by any religious (or so-called "Christian") group...
and worse perhaps still, the young, new-borns, small little children, are taught evil by their own family and churches and teachers and priests and pastors and tv and schools... all along - they have no chance to learn the truth,
so God must take action,
God must step in,
if there is to be any help/ healing/ salvation/ training in the way someone should live.

 

[theophilus]

The Bible was written in a culture where kissing others was a common practice. In out culture the equivalent would be shaking hands.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." Rom 16:16

"All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss." I Cor 16:20

"Greet one another with an holy kiss." II Cor 13:12

"Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." I Thess 5:26

"Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen." I Peter 5:14

Many years ago I had an online friend who sincerely believed that brothers and sister in the Lord should be physically kissing each other in greetings. He had his own website in those days, which I visited a time or two to boost him a little bit, as he never had many visitors. How do people who are such strict Bible believers get past the kisses in places like the USA? Both Paul and Peter seems to be in support of it...

Was not Jesus rebuking this man for not giving him a kiss?

"Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet." Luke 7:45

Have to ask. Does it mean physically kissing each other? Can’t that sometimes be for show when you don’t see them again until next Sunday’s service? Psalm 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

her not ceasing to kiss his feet seems significant in...how glorious are the feet. Ephesians 6:14-15 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

I would feel awkward going around kissing people. Hugs are difficult enough now ...to hug or not. You never know if you are encroaching someone’s personal space.

 

[Enoch111]

Salute one another with an holy kiss.

A "holy kiss" is exactly what it means. In the Middle East -- to this day -- people greet each other with kisses on the cheeks. But men and women worshiped separately so this would apply greetings between men and men or women and women only. Nothing unseemly.

 

[amadeus]

"Strict discipline" (almost NEVER seen in the usa) is required for life according to God.

"Is required", but while men especially in other countries with different cultures have progressed more in the physical control, how can any follower of Christ manage such control... and even if they can, can they be certain that their proper kiss would be acceptable to the recipient or to any observers? Consider what Paul wrote here:

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." I Thess 5:22

Even if to you alone it might not appear evil, consider the others...

Since even the thoughts of the heart make one guilty at once of sin if adultery, divorce, harming another, defiling the body (with tats or drugs), coveting, evil thoughts (like "I can get away with this, God won't care") ...
even the thoughts
the desires of the flesh and carnal mind of man
brings judgment,

Even so... and judgement begins where?

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" I Peter 4:17

how much more the acts thereof, including even those supposedly 'excused' by any religious (or so-called "Christian") group...
and worse perhaps still, the young, new-borns, small little children, are taught evil by their own family and churches and teachers and priests and pastors and tv and schools... all along - they have no chance to learn the truth,
so God must take action,
God must step in,
if there is to be any help/ healing/ salvation/ training in the way someone should live.

Who are the children?

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

 

[Joseph77]

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

This is truth, and is rarely seen, perhaps never seen by most visitors/ members/ posters ?

 

[amadeus]

The Bible was written in a culture where kissing others was a common practice. In out culture the equivalent would be shaking hands.

Yes, when I knew this friend, I carefully avoided too much involvement in a direct conversation on the subject with him, but I was naive in the ways of the world, and very unknowledgeable in the things of God. My improvement in the former is only scarcely and in the latter more in that I understand better my ignorance than I did then. Fortunately we have a God who knows in every situation just exactly what our next step should be. Have we learned to listen and obey?

 

[Joseph77]

"Is required", but while men especially in other countries with different cultures have progressed more in the physical control, how can any follower of Christ manage such control... and even if they can, can they be certain that their proper kiss would be acceptable to the recipient or to any observers? Consider what Paul wrote here:

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." I Thess 5:22

Even if to you alone it might not appear evil, consider the others...

The usual translations are inadequate to convey the meaning, and usually in error.
I do not 'know' enough perhaps to describe it properly, but the abstain from all appearance of evil is
better said : never do evil. (even when others accuse you of evil, (what THEY see, in their carnalness, even when they see the same thing the true disciples see, (or hear), to them, to the carnal, it is appearing and they say it is evil )

Next, The "strict discipline" is unchanging consistent training in DOing what is told, what is right, always, and also may be nothing physical/ no physical pain/ rather strict training, as GOD DOES for us His little children - DAILY, discipline always doing what is right, no lies, no adultery, no coveting, no idols, (this already rules out most visitors and most of the world ) .....

 

[amadeus]

Have to ask. Does it mean physically kissing each other? Can’t that sometimes be for show when you don’t see them again until next Sunday’s service? Psalm 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

her not ceasing to kiss his feet seems significant in...how glorious are the feet. Ephesians 6:14-15 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

I would feel awkward going around kissing people. Hugs are difficult enough now ...to hug or not. You never know if you are encroaching someone’s personal space.

When I first began attending a Pentecostal Church service in 1976 I knew nothing at all. I had never read a Bible and I was only just starting to learn some things about people. They were a hugging congregation, but no kissing. However, they did make it clear that hugging of persons of the opposite sex [immediate family excepted] was not allowed.

I remember one church group I enjoyed visiting periodically... with one important exception. The exception was that they had no restrictions against the hugging of unrelated persons of the opposite sex. I was middle aged already but my wife did not visit all of the places I did. The first time a young woman grabbed me and hugged me, without a mirror I knew that I believe my face must have resembled a tomato. I continued to visit the church occasionally, but I had learned more or less the order of their services and was able to leave so as to avoid a repeated embarrassment. I could never be a member of such a church. to my knowledge they did not kiss. I have never attended a church service where they did.

In my first Pentecostal congregation they would have foot washing service once in a while. Those were always segregated according to gender. The first time was difficult for both myself and my wife to really wash the feet of people who were still strangers to us, but God blessed us in it. That is the only place where I have seen it done. Washing another person's person's feet physically is a humbling thing and probably that it the best message we should receive from it:

"Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." John 13:8-15

We are to wash away our ways and to help others wash away their ways so that only His Way remains, the highway of holiness:

"And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein." Isaiah 35:8

One more thing I would share here is about kissing which seems to lean in another direction, or does it? The following psalm is from the KJV, but of the several versions I checked, including both Spanish and German, the word "kiss" seems to be the most prevalent and maybe the best translation although I don't read Hebrew.

"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Psalm 2:12

 

[historyb]

The Bible was written in a culture where kissing others was a common practice. In out culture the equivalent would be shaking hands.

Exactly. Not everything in the Bible should be taken extremely literal

 

[Joseph77]

mUCH, Much different than just shaking hands,
totally different than as if two in the same category / rank/ status were meeting - greeting one another -
absolutely not the same by far !

RSVCE
kiss his feet, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

MSG
So, rebel-kings, use your heads; Upstart-judges, learn your lesson: Worship God in adoring embrace, Celebrate in trembling awe. Kiss Messiah! Your very lives are in danger, you know; His anger is about to explode, But if you make a run for God—you won’t regret it!
MEV
Kiss the son, lest He become angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath kindles in a flash. Blessed are all who seek refuge in Him.
NOG
Kiss the Son, or he will become angry and you will die on your way because his anger will burst into flames. Blessed is everyone who takes refuge in him.

WEB
Give sincere homage to the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish on the way, for his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all those who take refuge in him.
WYC
Take ye lore of chastising; lest the Lord be wroth sometime, and ye perish from the just way. When his wrath shall burn out in short time; blessed be all they, that trust in him. (Kiss ye the King, that is, worship and serve him; lest sometime, the Lord be angry. And then, ye perish on the way; when, in a moment of time, his anger flareth up. Happy be all they, who trust in him.)
YLT
Kiss the Chosen One, lest He be angry, And ye lose the way, When His anger burneth but a little, O the happiness of all trusting in Him!

 

[Enoch111]

Not everything in the Bible should be taken extremely literal

On the contrary, most of what is in the Bible must be taken literally, no matter how difficult it is to grasp with the human mind. Christianity is essentially supernatural, and there are spiritual truths that exist which may not be understood rationally, yet they are to be take literally by faith.

 

[historyb]

On the contrary, most of what is in the Bible must be taken literally, no matter how difficult it is to grasp with the human mind. Christianity is essentially supernatural, and there are spiritual truths that exist which may not be understood rationally, yet they are to be take literally by faith.

We will disagree than

 

[Joseph77]

On the contrary, most of what is in the Bible must be taken literally, no matter how difficult it is to grasp with the human mind. Christianity is essentially supernatural, and there are spiritual truths that exist which may not be understood rationally, yet they are to be take literally by faith.

This requires trusting Jesus.
And whoever trusts Jesus, has life. Whoever trusts not, has not life.

 

[amadeus]

The usual translations are inadequate to convey the meaning, and usually in error.
I do not 'know' enough perhaps to describe it properly, but the abstain from all appearance of evil is
better said : never do evil. (even when others accuse you of evil, (what THEY see, in their carnalness, even when they see the same thing the true disciples see, (or hear), to them, to the carnal, it is appearing and they say it is evil )

What is not evil to me may well be evil to someone else as when comes to drinking alcoholic beverages. My old pastor (turned 95 day before yesterday) told a true story about himself on this point. [He was a tea-totally minister just about all of his life.]

His car broke down or he ran out of gas in a town where he was going to visit a church before he arrived. This was before cell phones. Before he had to stop he had seen a sign showing that a place of business had a public telephone inside so he walked back less than a block to the place. He hadn't realize it was a bar, a retail place for consumption of alcoholic beverages. As he started to enter to use the phone, he was checked by the Spirit. He was a well known man among all of the assemblies with a certain group of fellowshipping assemblies all over the United States. He would not drink alcohol at all, but if anyone who knew him were to see him enter that place...? Even though he knew his intentions were faultless, he hanged his mind and walked down the street. He had to walk several blocks before finding a public phone not located in a bar. To him it was important. He not would not purposely do anything that he considered evil nor would he even do anything that might give someone else the idea that he might.

Next, The "strict discipline" is unchanging consistent training in DOing what is told, what is right, always, and also may be nothing physical/ no physical pain/ rather strict training, as GOD DOES for us His little children - DAILY, discipline always doing what is right, no lies, no adultery, no coveting, no idols, (this already rules out most visitors and most of the world ) .....

On this strict discipline thing, we can work hard at it, but we really need to be leaning heavily on God and asking for His help with it. Alone, doing our best, we may still get into trouble. Walking with God may not be completely trouble free, but it certainly can be worry free.

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

A "holy kiss" is exactly what it means. In the Middle East -- to this day -- people greet each other with kisses on the cheeks. But men and women worshiped separately so this would apply greetings between men and men or women and women only. Nothing unseemly.

And for those of us not living in the Middle East today who find ourselves in a society where an innocent well intentioned kiss might cause problems for someone, should we go ahead with it anyway because that is what Paul and Peter wrote? Can we be led away from such a kiss by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Joseph77]

A "holy kiss" is exactly what it means. In the Middle East -- to this day -- people greet each other with kisses on the cheeks. But men and women worshiped separately so this would apply greetings between men and men or women and women only. Nothing unseemly.

And for those of us not living in the Middle East today who find ourselves in a society where an innocent well intentioned kiss might cause problems for someone, should we go ahead with it anyway because that is what Paul and Peter wrote? Can we be led away from such a kiss by the Holy Spirit?

Enoch got it correct. Those not living in the Middle East today, those living in sinful society anywhere else,
have no such thing as an "innocent well intentioned kill", let alone even such thoughts !

Jesus never leads us to sin, nor tells us to sin, ever, no, never.

Follow Jesus always - never do what He does not say to do.

 

[Joseph77]

His car broke down or he ran out of gas in a town where he was going to visit a church before he arrived. This was before cell phones. Before he had to stop he had seen a sign showing that a place of business had a public telephone inside so he walked back less than a block to the place. He hadn't realize it was a bar, a retail place for consumption of alcoholic beverages. As he started to enter to use the phone, he was checked by the Spirit. He was a well known man among all of the assemblies with a certain group of fellowshipping assemblies all over the United States. He would not drink alcohol at all, but if anyone who knew him were to see him enter that place...? Even though he knew his intentions were faultless, he hanged his mind and walked down the street. He had to walk several blocks before finding a public phone not located in a bar. To him it was important. He not would not purposely do anything that he considered evil nor would he even do anything that might give someone else the idea that he might.

Jesus well could have walked into the bar, not only to use the phone, but also to talk with prostitutes there.

Religious leaders often called Jesus a wine-bibber, maybe a glutton, and exclaimed against Jesus because He ate with tax collectors (known sinners publicly), and other sinners, and Jesus even talked openly with sinful women ! (AGHAST!) ....

 

[amadeus]

Jesus well could have walked into the bar, not only to use the phone, but also to talk with prostitutes there.

Religious leaders often called Jesus a wine-bibber, maybe a glutton, and exclaimed against Jesus because He ate with tax collectors (known sinners publicly), and other sinners, and Jesus even talked openly with sinful women ! (AGHAST!) ....

My pastor's point was that he was 'checked by the Spirit', not to go in there. To enter in anyway would have been to tempt God. Consider the natural children of Israel who decided to go ahead and enter Canaanland after God had told them through Moses, not to do it.