No Kisses among the brethren today?

[amadeus]

And just adding a few more kisses here:

As Samuel anointed the first King of Israel he kissed him...

"Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?" I Sam 10:1

But then we see Joab after being replaced by David his general deceiving his replacement, Amasa, with a kiss in order to kill him:

"And Joab said to Amasa, Art thou in health, my brother? And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand to kiss him.
But Amasa took no heed to the sword that was in Joab's hand: so he smote him therewith in the fifth rib, and shed out his bowels to the ground, and struck him not again; and he died..." II Sam 20:9-10

Then again a perhaps better known kiss of deception is seen here:

"Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him" Matt 26:48-49

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When I first began attending a Pentecostal Church service in 1976 I knew nothing at all. I had never read a Bible and I was only just starting to learn some things about people. They were a hugging congregation, but no kissing. However, they did make it clear that hugging of persons of the opposite sex [immediate family excepted] was not allowed.

I remember one church group I enjoyed visiting periodically... with one important exception. The exception was that they had no restrictions against the hugging of unrelated persons of the opposite sex. I was middle aged already but my wife did not visit all of the places I did. The first time a young woman grabbed me and hugged me, without a mirror I knew that I believe my face must have resembled a tomato. I continued to visit the church occasionally, but I had learned more or less the order of their services and was able to leave so as to avoid a repeated embarrassment. I could never be a member of such a church. to my knowledge they did not kiss. I have never attended a church service where they did.

In my first Pentecostal congregation they would have foot washing service once in a while. Those were always segregated according to gender. The first time was difficult for both myself and my wife to really wash the feet of people who were still strangers to us, but God blessed us in it. That is the only place where I have seen it done. Washing another person's person's feet physically is a humbling thing and probably that it the best message we should receive from it:

"Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." John 13:8-15

We are to wash away our ways and to help others wash away their ways so that only His Way remains, the highway of holiness:

"And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein." Isaiah 35:8

One more thing I would share here is about kissing which seems to lean in another direction, or does it? The following psalm is from the KJV, but of the several versions I checked, including both Spanish and German, the word "kiss" seems to be the most prevalent and maybe the best translation although I don't read Hebrew.

"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Psalm 2:12

Still been giving it some thought. There is another thread on a holy kiss. YouTube has videos on how to give a holy kiss. Was taking to our youngest daughter tonight. Her husband is in quarantine for two weeks after the guy he works with tested positive for Covid. The guy and his parents (all positive)found out their church bulletin had listed several in the congregation who tested positive. With all that, have to ask, does or can a holy kiss transfer Covid?

It is the ‘holy’ before the kiss...Similar to the ‘pure’ in Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Revelation 22:1)

And the ‘charity’ in 1 Peter 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Could it be said: though I kiss every one I come in contact with, and have not charity, it profits me nothing.

 

[marksman]

The Bible was written in a culture where kissing others was a common practice. In out culture the equivalent would be shaking hands.

That is true and still today they kiss but does the change in society mean that we have to ignore the scriptures and take on societies' understanding of greeting? Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind....

Is shaking hands transformative or is kissing?

 

[Brakelite]

Culture and the various politically correct adjustments to traditions and sometimes legal restrictions imposed on society man's we simply need to adjust sometimes... Unless those "adjustments" tend toward unrighteousness.
That said, when Jesus comes, I can say quite categorically that I would rather have Him kiss me than sick out His hand. Nuh. Sorry Boss, shaking hands won't cut it. I wanna a hug. And a kiss.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." Rom 16:16

"All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss." I Cor 16:20

"Greet one another with an holy kiss." II Cor 13:12

"Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." I Thess 5:26

"Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen." I Peter 5:14

Many years ago I had an online friend who sincerely believed that brothers and sister in the Lord should be physically kissing each other in greetings. He had his own website in those days, which I visited a time or two to boost him a little bit, as he never had many visitors. How do people who are such strict Bible believers get past the kisses in places like the USA? Both Paul and Peter seems to be in support of it...

Was not Jesus rebuking this man for not giving him a kiss?

"Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet." Luke 7:45

friend
how will people apply this kissing among brothers in this kind of era and age

people would probably came to a conclusion that people who are kissing m2m w2w m2w are homos

time gets us here where almost all truths are considered lies by this age and era if we were born like these people who are kissing each other because of the commandments of God it's not hard for us to do these but if people already told us a lot of lies just how can we just follow these without being ashamed of the lies that the tradition teaches us

 

[Joseph77]

if people already told us a lot of lies just how can we just follow these without being ashamed of the lies that the tradition teaches us

Perhaps yes, we should be on our face on the ground repenting of all the lies filling overflowing the world and history and science and medicine and politics and tradition and religion .... turn from every lie, everyone, every one of them..
turn to the Creator Who Alone Is Able to Save us....
as written, the truth will be called a lie (this happens daily , everywhere), and the lie will be called the truth (again daily; as all the fake news and religious and political leaders continue) ...

us here where almost all truths are considered lies

=======================================================

Jesus says His Commandments are not burdensome.
In Him, In Life, In Truth, after He Delivers us from all the lies .... yes >

because of the commandments of God it's not hard for us to do these

 

[amadeus]

Still been giving it some thought. There is another thread on a holy kiss. YouTube has videos on how to give a holy kiss. Was taking to our youngest daughter tonight. Her husband is in quarantine for two weeks after the guy he works with tested positive for Covid. The guy and his parents (all positive)found out their church bulletin had listed several in the congregation who tested positive. With all that, have to ask, does or can a holy kiss transfer Covid?

It is the ‘holy’ before the kiss...Similar to the ‘pure’ in Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Revelation 22:1)

And the ‘charity’ in 1 Peter 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Could it be said: though I kiss every one I come in contact with, and have not charity, it profits me nothing.

Compare it to Apostle Paul's experience with the poisonous snake that took hold of his hand [Acts 28]. He shook it off into the fire and suffered no ill effects whatsoever which greatly the surprised the natives who saw him do it. Apparently the snake was quite deadly.

Then consider this verse:

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:18

God will keep us if we are standing with Him striving to always make our purpose equal to His purpose. We should not tempt the God. I met a snake handler once some years ago here in Oklahoma. What he described to me certainly amounted to tempting God rather than what Paul did when that snake latched onto his hand. Paul did not go looking for a snake to show those around him that he was walking with God. Purposely taking hold of a poisonous snake when you knew there is no need to do so would almost certainly be tempting God. Kissing on another person even in greeting could amount to the same thing. Is it really what God wants you to do? Are you really convicted in your heart to greeting someone with a 'holy kiss? If not is could be might be tempting God.

When you decide to greet someone with a "holy kiss" you need to ask yourself and God, why you should or should not do that. I cannot answer that question precisely for you because only you really know your own heart. If you are uncertain then ask of God who always knows.

Remember what "holy" means. It means "set apart" and God is the one that does the setting apart. Normally there should be no harm in kissing someone on the cheek, but given the pros and cons that everyone seems to have these days with regard to Covid 19, be sure about where God stands on for you before moving this way or that way. That is my advice.

 

[amadeus]

friend
how will people apply this kissing among brothers in this kind of era and age

people would probably came to a conclusion that people who are kissing m2m w2w m2w are homos

time gets us here where almost all truths are considered lies by this age and era if we were born like these people who are kissing each other because of the commandments of God it's not hard for us to do these but if people already told us a lot of lies just how can we just follow these without being ashamed of the lies that the tradition teaches us

Consider all of those things and consider God. People may indeed judge us... and they often do... no matter what we do or don't do. Just be certain not to rule in favor of people and against God.

 

[amadeus]

That is true and still today they kiss but does the change in society mean that we have to ignore the scriptures and take on societies' understanding of greeting? Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind....

Is shaking hands transformative or is kissing?

Are we to take everything written in scripture as a literal command from God? A problem with 'literal' is that people have different views on what that means and different translations of the scripture may also make a difference.

It is very important, I believe, to always follow the lead of the Holy Spirit in us. Unfortunately as we can see from this forum, people have different ideas about what it means to hear and follow the Holy Spirit.

 

[marksman]

Are we to take everything written in scripture as a literal command from God? A problem with 'literal' is that people have different views on what that means and different translations of the scripture may also make a difference.

It is very important, I believe, to always follow the lead of the Holy Spirit in us. Unfortunately as we can see from this forum, people have different ideas about what it means to hear and follow the Holy Spirit.

What I understand is that we are to discern truth and follow that.

 

[amadeus]

What I understand is that we are to discern truth and follow that.

I agree with your words as I understand them, but as you already know correct discernment of truth comes from God alone. For us, once we have received the Holy Spirit, that should mean letting the Holy Spirit always be our leader. Give God the glory!

 

[Joseph77]

I agree with your words as I understand them, but as you already know correct discernment of truth comes from God alone.

Good, yes, good.

Unless God the Father grants it from heaven, no man can receive (nor grasp, nor understand) anything

 

[marksman]

I agree with your words as I understand them, but as you already know correct discernment of truth comes from God alone. For us, once we have received the Holy Spirit, that should mean letting the Holy Spirit always be our leader. Give God the glory!

I do find that some Christians are very jaundiced towards being led by the Holy Spirit. They seem to doubt that it is possible for everyday life. I cannot live without him and I need him to show me the right way even in the mundane things of life. But having said that some people have said to me that they have never heard from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Joseph77]

I do find that some Christians are very jaundiced towards being led by the Holy Spirit. They seem to doubt that it is possible for everyday life. I cannot live without him and I need him to show me the right way even in the mundane things of life. But having said that some people have said to me that they have never heard from the Holy Spirit.

Multitudes, billions, have no idea what holy is. The deception throughout the world has been growing and growing and growing and has been world wide for decades or centuries.

Thankfully, God's Promise, Jesus Says: MY sheep HEAR MY VOICE, and follow ME....

yes, with much persecution... but we will not follow another (voice) .....

 

[amadeus]

I do find that some Christians are very jaundiced towards being led by the Holy Spirit. They seem to doubt that it is possible for everyday life. I cannot live without him and I need him to show me the right way even in the mundane things of life. But having said that some people have said to me that they have never heard from the Holy Spirit.

There are many things in scripture which would might help someone understand better about hearing from the Holy Spirit directly. Perhaps the story of Elijah Not hearing from God in the wind, or the earthquake, or the fire... but hearing it rather in a "still small voice" is one of the best ones. [from I Kings 19:11-12]. God certainly can and does speak to people in any one of those elements and others, but too many people are simply not really listening or their hearing is simply too dull:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:15

 

[mjrhealth]

There are many things in scripture which would might help someone understand better about hearing from the Holy Spirit directly. Perhaps the story of Elijah Not hearing from God in the wind, or the earthquake, or the fire... but hearing it rather in a "still small voice" is one of the best ones. [from I Kings 19:11-12]. God certainly can and does speak to people in any one of those elements and others, but too many people are simply not really listening or their hearing is simply too dull:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:15

And men started building churches and religion , than we had a million voices, no wonder we are all confused.

 

[amadeus]

And men started building churches and religion , than we had a million voices, no wonder we are all confused.

Yes, the Catholics are right when they speak of the confused mess to be found in the multitude of Protestant churches that have come into existence since Martin Luther. The whole thing parallels what happened at the Tower of Babel [Gen. 11]. The whole group was building their own way to heaven, so God seeing their error helped out the few perhaps who might look to Him instead of their leaders by confounding their languages. Most of them likely were more confused than ever... but a few more like Abram/Abraham really wanted to approach God by whatever Way He provided. The similarities between the time of the Tower of Babel, the time of Martin Luther and today are readily apparent, I believe...
Who has eyes to see?

 

[Joseph77]

Who has eyes to see?

No, those who spawned evil around the earth are not right, even when they manage to state a fact, (like the enemy did in the garden? to deceive) since their spirit purpose is to bring people down everywhere to destruction.

 

[amadeus]

No, those who spawned evil around the earth are not right, even when they manage to state a fact, (like the enemy did in the garden? to deceive) since their spirit purpose is to bring people down everywhere to destruction.

Everyone was dead and therefore also blind to the things of God until and if they received a vision of Him. Early on the vision is blurry or is seen as through darkened glass, but as we decrease [which any believer should be doing] and as He increases within us, will not our vision move ever closer to the "then, face to face" about which Paul writes? For Moses to see His face was death, but Jesus brought possibilities not available to Moses.

Give God the glory!

 

[Joseph77]

Everyone was dead and therefore also blind to the things of God until and if they received a vision of Him.

Even after a vision (remember Balaam and all those who fall in the error of Balaam)
many continue on the path of destruction.
Those who embrace the false gospel with many false teachings and false doctrines that are designed to deceive
are not at all in Christ Jesus.