No Law, No Christ

[bbyrd009]

Jesus came to be fulfill the law, not destroy it, and certainly not to condemn them keeping it

well, i could Quote some Jesus condemning others for keeping the law, i think

There are christ now that condemn His people for keeping His law

for example?

The New Covenant is not lawless.

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but within the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

i guess not, but it might appear to be from someone outside an interaction i guess, as the last v there even states

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law by ministering the Spirit with the law, and we are likewise to minister the law with the Spirit, not minister the Spirit without the law.

The lawless spiritualists seek another christ:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The law keepers in letter only, without spiritual purity within, need to purify themselves first, but the lawless just need to get saved.

if your right eye offends you, pluck it and toss it might deserve a hearing here too though

 

[bbyrd009]

The law was established for our benefit - to keep us out of trouble - here on earth.

funny thing, i note in a search of “holy” that the law is, while the Bible is not; yet there is this thing known as “under the law” that imo we like saying that we are not, while at the same time showing that we are, unawares.

i could…have posted examples in the past, but that just makes believers uncomfortable

 

[amadeus]

i guess spiritually dead people do? But how much more often is sin just a perception of someone elses right eye, i wonder

All of the unbelievers are dead. What if most of those calling themselves Christians
are also dead in the eyes of God?

Consider how many were dead in Sodom when Lot was led out with his family... And then consider what happened to Lot's wife and then his two daughters. Aren't the best of people really good examples?

 

[Bob Estey]

funny thing, i note in a search of “holy” that the law is, while the Bible is not; yet there is this thing known as “under the law” that imo we like saying that we are not, while at the same time showing that we are, unawares.

i could…have posted examples in the past, but that just makes believers uncomfortable

[97] Oh, how I love thy law!
It is my meditation all the day.
[98] Thy commandment makes me wiser than my enemies,
for it is ever with me.
[99] I have more understanding than all my teachers,
for thy testimonies are my meditation.
[100] I understand more than the aged,
for I keep thy precepts. Psalm 119:97-100

 

[bbyrd009]

What if most of those calling themselves Christians
are also dead in the eyes of God?

yeh, it is sad to me how thoroughly the cult of sol has taken over Christianity...how its meant to be tho i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

[97] Oh, how I love thy law!
It is my meditation all the day.
[98] Thy commandment makes me wiser than my enemies,
for it is ever with me.
[99] I have more understanding than all my teachers,
for thy testimonies are my meditation.
[100] I understand more than the aged,
for I keep thy precepts. Psalm 119:97-100

nice...dunno if learning the law from the OT exactly puts paid to the concept, but its a good start i guess

 

[amigo de christo]

All of the unbelievers are dead. What if most of those calling themselves Christians
are also dead in the eyes of God?

Consider how many were dead in Sodom when Lot was led out with his family... And then consider what happened to Lot's wife and then his two daughters. Aren't the best of people really good examples?

There are many dead . Lets allow paul to sum it up . SHE is DEAD while she liveth . So long as they living it up in sin they are dead my friend .
As dead as the prodigal son . We are in serious trouble these days my friend . Its gonna take true lambs standing up
and procliaming the truth and correcting the erring to churches . The more paul corrected , the more he loved the less he was loved .
But CORRECTION is DIRE and the lambs must stand on the truth . Do all for the sake of others . We cant let this church age
drown in the deception and sin .

 

[Bob Estey]

nice...dunno if learning the law from the OT exactly puts paid to the concept, but its a good start i guess

The Word of God is the Word of God, no matter which Testament you find it in:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33 RSV

 

[bbyrd009]

The Word of God is the Word of God, no matter which Testament you find it in:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33 RSV

the Bible isnt Word, Bob...i mean unless you have a Quote for that i missed maybe

 

[Bob Estey]

the Bible isnt Word, Bob...i mean unless you have a Quote for that i missed maybe

But when God or Jesus are quoted, that is the Word of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

But when God or Jesus are quoted, that is the Word of God.

well imo that aint the worst idea, but id keep an open mind there ok
The Word was God is prolly different than that eh

 

[Bob Estey]

well imo that aint the worst idea, but id keep an open mind there ok
The Word was God is prolly different than that eh

There are only a very few things I take completely on faith. One is that God is motivated only by love (even when he disciplines us), all-powerful, and all knowing. Another is that the Bible doesn't lie. If the Bible says God said something, then he said it.

 

[bbyrd009]

There are only a very few things I take completely on faith. One is that God is motivated only by love (even when he disciplines us), all-powerful, and all knowing. Another is that the Bible doesn't lie. If the Bible says God said something, then he said it.

well, not disagreeing with you necessarily bob, but imo there are a bunch of caveats to that? Number one, that still would not necessarily make it Word, and what translation do you mean by "Bible" there anyway? Or do you mean the orig Greek/Hebrew? Lotta ppl think they can read "Jesus, returning" in the Bible, see; doesnt make it true though.

Also, you might often hear "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" even though that is not written anywhere; so, to diff ways to misunderstand. Are those ways Word too? And what do you mean by "God said," anyway? Do you imagine an audible Voice there? Or more like an inspiration, posssibly with witnesses (to either)?

 

[Bob Estey]

well, not disagreeing with you necessarily bob, but imo there are a bunch of caveats to that? Number one, that still would not necessarily make it Word, and what translation do you mean by "Bible" there anyway? Or do you mean the orig Greek/Hebrew? Lotta ppl think they can read "Jesus, returning" in the Bible, see; doesnt make it true though.

Also, you might often hear "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" even though that is not written anywhere; so, to diff ways to misunderstand. Are those ways Word too? And what do you mean by "God said," anyway? Do you imagine an audible Voice there? Or more like an inspiration, posssibly with witnesses (to either)?

Certainly, when God or Jesus are quoted, that it the Word.

 

[bbyrd009]

Certainly, when God or Jesus are quoted, that it the Word.

well, you might think so right now, but what if Word is something else? “Certainly” will preclude you ever hearing it, see

 

[Bob Estey]

well, you might think so right now, but what if Word is something else? “Certainly” will preclude you ever hearing it, see

We have the Bible, which tells us what God and Jesus instructed us to do. I wouldn't look anywhere else, if I were you.

That said, we are to pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17), and in doing so we enter into a personal relationship with the Lord, and he guides us.

 

[bbyrd009]

We have the Bible, which tells us what God and Jesus instructed us to do. I wouldn't look anywhere else, if I were you

well Bob, you might believe that God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses, right? But half of them came from Hammurabi, king of Babylon, see, and they were likely inherited from older sources. And Jesus, and particularly Paul, imported much from other schools of thought, Dao, Stoicism, Epicureanism, Essene, etc so while i agree that the Bible is a good, even great source, that usually even goes a step further with a concept, i would not limit myself to any one book tbh; wisdom is where you find it, i think.

I am mostly compelled by the fact that the Bible Itself tells us that we will no longer need It at a certain point…and i might point out the “kjv only” crowd, who seem so completely blind to the message of the Bible, that you might be dangerously close to there, wadr

 

[1stCenturyLady]

""""Christ is the end of the law for everyone who believes"""

That just means that Christ is the end of the LETTER OF THE LAW, and enters in the SPIRIT OF THE SAME LAW, which is deeper and part of those who are born again.

 

[Behold]

That just means that Christ is the end of the LETTER OF THE LAW, and enters in the SPIRIT OF THE SAME LAW, which is deeper and part of those who are born again.

The letter killeth, but the Spirit makes alive, brings life.

The spirit of the law would be the intent of the law.
So, I'd have to read your commentary to try to find out what they are telling you, , as you are only posting a part of it.

The born again are not under any Law. They are "under Grace"
The born again exist in GOD, and IN CHRIST, and there is no Law there..
There are heretics who try to teach that God saved you in the NT, so that you can keep the law in the OT.
Ever met one of those?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The born again are not under any Law. They are "under Grace"

You must have a deformed definition of Grace. Grace is not 'do as you please and the blood of Jesus covers you if you commit willful sin.' But that is a common definition in many denominations! E-Gad! God's grace is the power of God to be righteous. In other words, to keep God's laws of fervent Love.

The born again exist in GOD, and IN CHRIST, and there is no Law there..

Yes there is. "And this is His Commandment: To believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another." 1 John 3:23

There are heretics who try to teach that God saved you in the NT, so that you can keep the law in the OT.

Correct. But that does not mean that the OT is useless. There is more there than the Ten Commandments, the first covenant, Exodus 34:28.