No More Death

[ewq1938]

Rev. 20:1-15 According to the "Progressive Amillennial view", the understanding is
that "a thousand years" IS NOW

We cannot be in the thousand years right now or any time in the past for this very simple reason:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Verse 4 says there are people that were beheaded in the tribulation because they refused to worship the beast and take the mark of the beast. That is found in Rev 13 so by Rev 20, the tribulation is over. That means before the thousand years even begins the tribulation found in Rev 13 is over. We therefore cannot be in the thousand years now because the beast did not rise up, the Antichrist did not rise up, and the mark of the beast does not exist yet nor is anyone being beheaded for refusing to worship the beast or take his mark.

If the tribulation found in Rev 13 has not yet happened, then the thousand years has not yet begun. That alone proves the Amil position to be false.

The second thing this proves is that the first resurrection has not yet occurred because it also only comes after the tribulation has ended.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: (this is the first of two throne judgments found in the chapter) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (these died in the great tribulation) and they lived (same word Christ used about his own resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (this proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time) This is the first resurrection. (John revisits what the first resurrection is in the next verse)

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God (verb is in the future tense) and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (verb is in the future tense).



Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So, the mark only exists when the second beast, the false prophet, gives life to the image of the first beast and then causes all to receive a mark. If they already had the mark these verses would be untrue. This is the first time the mark of the beast is given to anyone. And it only happens during the 42 month tribulation.

The thousand years doesn't even begin until the saints refuse the mark and are beheaded either by the false prophet or those loyal to him during those 42 months. After that period ends, Christ returns and will resurrect those who were beheaded. That's all before Satan is bound in the pit and before the thousand years starts.

As the OP shows, Amil is a false doctrine because it teaches the thousand years is happening since the cross yet ignores all the things that have to happen before the thousand years even begins which are:

All things that must happen before the thousand years even begins

The rise of the first beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The rise of the second beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The creation of the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The second beast giving life to the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
People given the mark of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The full 1260 days ministry of the two witnesses. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The public murdering of the two prophets. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
Their bodies lying in the street of Jerusalem. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The resurrection of the two prophets and ascending into heaven. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe which is when the second coming occurs. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The battle of Rev 19 and defeat of the beast and army. (Rev 19)
Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20)
The resurrection of the beheaded dead of Rev 20. (Rev 20)
Casting Satan into the pit. (Rev 20)

THEN AND ONLY then does the thousand years begin. (Rev 20)

All those things must happen first before the thousand years is said to start and it is all because of one verse:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These saints who were beheaded in the tribulation are brought back to life before the thousand years begins which means the tribulation period they died in had to happen first and there are a huge list of major events that happen in that tribulation period and just after it ends. All of the list happens before the thousand years begins.

 

[WPM]

We cannot be in the thousand years right now or any time in the past for this very simple reason:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Verse 4 says there are people that were beheaded in the tribulation because they refused to worship the beast and take the mark of the beast. That is found in Rev 13 so by Rev 20, the tribulation is over. That means before the thousand years even begins the tribulation found in Rev 13 is over. We therefore cannot be in the thousand years now because the beast did not rise up, the Antichrist did not rise up, and the mark of the beast does not exist yet nor is anyone being beheaded for refusing to worship the beast or take his mark.

If the tribulation found in Rev 13 has not yet happened, then the thousand years has not yet begun. That alone proves the Amil position to be false.

The second thing this proves is that the first resurrection has not yet occurred because it also only comes after the tribulation has ended.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: (this is the first of two throne judgments found in the chapter) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (these died in the great tribulation) and they lived (same word Christ used about his own resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (this proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time) This is the first resurrection. (John revisits what the first resurrection is in the next verse)

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God (verb is in the future tense) and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (verb is in the future tense).



Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So, the mark only exists when the second beast, the false prophet, gives life to the image of the first beast and then causes all to receive a mark. If they already had the mark these verses would be untrue. This is the first time the mark of the beast is given to anyone. And it only happens during the 42 month tribulation.

The thousand years doesn't even begin until the saints refuse the mark and are beheaded either by the false prophet or those loyal to him during those 42 months. After that period ends, Christ returns and will resurrect those who were beheaded. That's all before Satan is bound in the pit and before the thousand years starts.

As the OP shows, Amil is a false doctrine because it teaches the thousand years is happening since the cross yet ignores all the things that have to happen before the thousand years even begins which are:

All things that must happen before the thousand years even begins

The rise of the first beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The rise of the second beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The creation of the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The second beast giving life to the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
People given the mark of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The full 1260 days ministry of the two witnesses. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The public murdering of the two prophets. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
Their bodies lying in the street of Jerusalem. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The resurrection of the two prophets and ascending into heaven. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe which is when the second coming occurs. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The battle of Rev 19 and defeat of the beast and army. (Rev 19)
Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20)
The resurrection of the beheaded dead of Rev 20. (Rev 20)
Casting Satan into the pit. (Rev 20)

THEN AND ONLY then does the thousand years begin. (Rev 20)

All those things must happen first before the thousand years is said to start and it is all because of one verse:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These saints who were beheaded in the tribulation are brought back to life before the thousand years begins which means the tribulation period they died in had to happen first and there are a huge list of major events that happen in that tribulation period and just after it ends. All of the list happens before the thousand years begins.

You make it up as you go! Where in verse 4 does it even mention your future great tribulation? Nowhere! You force it into the text. The beast has been on the go for a long time. Way before John even put Revelation into writing the beast was on the go. Believers have been suffering from that wicked spirit from OT times. This totally demolishes your whole thesis.

The reality is, Revelation 20 has been ongoing since the first resurrection (Christ's resurrection). Nothing will ever change that. Revelation 20 finishes with a general resurrection and a general judgment. There is only one day that that will happen. That will occur at the glorious climatic future common of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Gottservant]

Rev. 21[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[...]

So there you have it, there shall be no more death,....ever again, for both the saved and the unsaved. Death will have been completely vanquished, upon that day, "when He shall come to be glorified in His saints"

Death will be delayed, sorrow will be lifted up and crying will be little spent.

Because of these things, death will be no more, sorrow will exhaust itself and crying will find comfort in Earth.

Delay kills death, upholding sorrow dries it up and not spending enough of on crying brings it to an end.

These are all things, you can practice in meditation (now).

 

[Earburner]

We cannot be in the thousand years right now or any time in the past for this very simple reason:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Verse 4 says there are people that were beheaded in the tribulation because they refused to worship the beast and take the mark of the beast. That is found in Rev 13 so by Rev 20, the tribulation is over. That means before the thousand years even begins the tribulation found in Rev 13 is over. We therefore cannot be in the thousand years now because the beast did not rise up, the Antichrist did not rise up, and the mark of the beast does not exist yet nor is anyone being beheaded for refusing to worship the beast or take his mark.

If the tribulation found in Rev 13 has not yet happened, then the thousand years has not yet begun. That alone proves the Amil position to be false.

The second thing this proves is that the first resurrection has not yet occurred because it also only comes after the tribulation has ended.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: (this is the first of two throne judgments found in the chapter) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (these died in the great tribulation) and they lived (same word Christ used about his own resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (this proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time) This is the first resurrection. (John revisits what the first resurrection is in the next verse)

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God (verb is in the future tense) and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (verb is in the future tense).



Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So, the mark only exists when the second beast, the false prophet, gives life to the image of the first beast and then causes all to receive a mark. If they already had the mark these verses would be untrue. This is the first time the mark of the beast is given to anyone. And it only happens during the 42 month tribulation.

The thousand years doesn't even begin until the saints refuse the mark and are beheaded either by the false prophet or those loyal to him during those 42 months. After that period ends, Christ returns and will resurrect those who were beheaded. That's all before Satan is bound in the pit and before the thousand years starts.

As the OP shows, Amil is a false doctrine because it teaches the thousand years is happening since the cross yet ignores all the things that have to happen before the thousand years even begins which are:

All things that must happen before the thousand years even begins

The rise of the first beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The rise of the second beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The creation of the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The second beast giving life to the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
People given the mark of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The full 1260 days ministry of the two witnesses. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The public murdering of the two prophets. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
Their bodies lying in the street of Jerusalem. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The resurrection of the two prophets and ascending into heaven. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe which is when the second coming occurs. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The battle of Rev 19 and defeat of the beast and army. (Rev 19)
Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20)
The resurrection of the beheaded dead of Rev 20. (Rev 20)
Casting Satan into the pit. (Rev 20)

THEN AND ONLY then does the thousand years begin. (Rev 20)

All those things must happen first before the thousand years is said to start and it is all because of one verse:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These saints who were beheaded in the tribulation are brought back to life before the thousand years begins which means the tribulation period they died in had to happen first and there are a huge list of major events that happen in that tribulation period and just after it ends. All of the list happens before the thousand years begins.

Common sense and the limitations of our minds and bodies, informs us that the book of Revelation is a collection of separate visions given to John.
It is apparent that ALL the visions were not given to him in one sitting, nor could he write them all in one sitting, with the limitations of their writing utensils at that time.

Nothing of the chapters in Revelation should be read consecutively or chronologically, according to our "natural mind", by our shallow and limited understanding of "time".
We must approach it, being engaged with "the mind of Christ", who is eternal, and therefore speaks in the past, present, future and eternity, all at the same time.
Our earthly minds simply can't keep up.
They are extremely linear in thinking, and ill equipped for the task.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them ["in heavenly places"], and judgment** was given unto them: [** John 3:18]
A. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded [martyred] for the witness of Jesus [the Early Church age].
B. and [martyred] for the word of God (the Mid- Church age),
C. and [martyred] which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [the End time Church age];

D. and they lived and reigned with Christ [in their lifetimes] a thousand years [during the Age of God's Grace].

 

[ewq1938]

Common sense and the limitations of our minds and bodies, informs us that the book of Revelation is a collection of separate visions given to John.

Common sense (and scripture) also tells us this current world does not match the world of the Millennium.

 

[Earburner]

We cannot be in the thousand years right now or any time in the past for this very simple reason:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Verse 4 says there are people that were beheaded in the tribulation because they refused to worship the beast and take the mark of the beast. That is found in Rev 13 so by Rev 20, the tribulation is over. That means before the thousand years even begins the tribulation found in Rev 13 is over. We therefore cannot be in the thousand years now because the beast did not rise up, the Antichrist did not rise up, and the mark of the beast does not exist yet nor is anyone being beheaded for refusing to worship the beast or take his mark.

If the tribulation found in Rev 13 has not yet happened, then the thousand years has not yet begun. That alone proves the Amil position to be false.

The second thing this proves is that the first resurrection has not yet occurred because it also only comes after the tribulation has ended.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: (this is the first of two throne judgments found in the chapter) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (these died in the great tribulation) and they lived (same word Christ used about his own resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (this proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time) This is the first resurrection. (John revisits what the first resurrection is in the next verse)

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God (verb is in the future tense) and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (verb is in the future tense).



Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So, the mark only exists when the second beast, the false prophet, gives life to the image of the first beast and then causes all to receive a mark. If they already had the mark these verses would be untrue. This is the first time the mark of the beast is given to anyone. And it only happens during the 42 month tribulation.

The thousand years doesn't even begin until the saints refuse the mark and are beheaded either by the false prophet or those loyal to him during those 42 months. After that period ends, Christ returns and will resurrect those who were beheaded. That's all before Satan is bound in the pit and before the thousand years starts.

As the OP shows, Amil is a false doctrine because it teaches the thousand years is happening since the cross yet ignores all the things that have to happen before the thousand years even begins which are:

All things that must happen before the thousand years even begins

The rise of the first beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The rise of the second beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The creation of the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The second beast giving life to the image of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
People given the mark of the beast. (Found in Rev 13 which shows the beginning events of the tribulation)
The full 1260 days ministry of the two witnesses. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The public murdering of the two prophets. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
Their bodies lying in the street of Jerusalem. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The resurrection of the two prophets and ascending into heaven. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe which is when the second coming occurs. (Found in Rev 11 which shows mid and ending events of the tribulation)
The battle of Rev 19 and defeat of the beast and army. (Rev 19)
Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20)
The resurrection of the beheaded dead of Rev 20. (Rev 20)
Casting Satan into the pit. (Rev 20)

THEN AND ONLY then does the thousand years begin. (Rev 20)

All those things must happen first before the thousand years is said to start and it is all because of one verse:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These saints who were beheaded in the tribulation are brought back to life before the thousand years begins which means the tribulation period they died in had to happen first and there are a huge list of major events that happen in that tribulation period and just after it ends. All of the list happens before the thousand years begins.

Let's ask this question:
Are the saints who suffered martyrdom during the Early Church age and the Mid-church age LESS WORTHY, than those who suffer martyrdom during the End Time church age?
Your answer please.

 

[Earburner]

Common sense (and scripture) also tells us this current world does not match the world of the Millennium.

The Jewish fabled 1000 years will just be an extension of this current world of unsaved people, but on a remodeled (The Great Reset) planet.
According to PM thinking, all that will be on the planet THEN, will be unsaved people, who were all unrepentant upon Jesus' Glorious return, "WHEN" (key word**) he shall come to be glorified IN his saints.

**See KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10. The word "when" is written two times.

 

[ewq1938]

The Jewish fabled 1000 years

The 1000 years is found 6 times in Rev 20, a Christian writing. It is not Jewish. They don't even believe in the Millennium, nor Rev, nor the NT, or what Christ said.

The only fabled 1000 years is the larger than a 1000 years from Amill.

 

[ewq1938]

Let's ask this question:
Are the saints who suffered martyrdom during the Early Church age and the Mid-church age LESS WORTHY, than those who suffer martyrdom during the End Time church age?
Your answer please.

The concept of saints being "less worthy" is a strawman fallacy you invented.

 

[Earburner]

The 1000 years is found 6 times in Rev 20, a Christian writing. It is not Jewish. They don't even believe in the Millennium, nor Rev, nor the NT, or what Christ said.

The only fabled 1000 years is the larger than a 1000 years from Amill.

The Jews are still looking for their messiah to come. According to their accounting of time, they see it as a few more years, and the messiah will come and usher in the 7th day of a 1000 year sabbath on earth. To some degree that is what PreMils follow also.

Year 6000 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That picture in the site I referenced, is a statue of a man "beating a sword into a plowshare".
That Statue is on the grounds of the UN, which is the "Image" of the beast.

EDIT: The last time I looked, the UN is NOT a Christian organization. Come to think of it, neither is the nation of Israel. Better yet, WHY are two "organizations" (term intended) seemingly working together for world peace, when Jesus explicitly said:
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

The UN? Supporting a quote from the Bible? Without The Lord Jesus, and then only quoting part of it from Isaiah? Let's see what's missing.

The words actually written on the staue:
"They shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
The actual scripture from the KJV:
Isa. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and** they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
** Note: please see John 3:18 about "judging" the nations "and rebuking many people".

How convenient and subtily misleading.
That which is speaking about Jesus and His born again saints, who in every generation, are the very people who DO NOT learn war anymore, has been purposely cut out of that scripture that is on the statue.

Let Us Beat Swords Into Ploughshares | United Nations Gifts

Let Us Beat Swords Into Ploughshares is a bronze sculpture by artist Evgeniy Vuchetich (1908 ¬– 1974). Vuchetich was an esteemed Soviet sculptor and artist well-known for his heroic monuments. In 1959, he was given the “People’s Artist of the USSR” award. The sculpture depicts the figure of a...

www.un.org

 

[ewq1938]

The Jews are still looking for their messiah to come.

They do not believe in a Millennium, not Amill's or Premill's Millennium.

 

[Earburner]

The 1000 years is found 6 times in Rev 20, a Christian writing. It is not Jewish. They don't even believe in the Millennium, nor Rev, nor the NT, or what Christ said.

Actually, they do believe in "the 1000 years". They call it the "Messianic Age" (and of course, without Jesus). They fabricate it by their formula of the 6 days of creation X 1000 years equals 6000 years. And then adding in the 7th day sabbath X 1000, makes it to be 7 days = 7000 years. The Jewish religion calculates that we are in the year 5783.

 

[ewq1938]

Actually, they do believe in "the 1000 years".

Here is actual info:

MILLENNIUM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also "chiliasm," designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 ("And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish"); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between

and

, although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.

There are various views regarding the duration of this kingdom, and there is considerable confusion in traditional literature on this point, one and the same opinion being often quoted as held by different authorities. According to the two baraitot in Sanh. 99a, the Messianic kingdom is to last for 40, or 70, or 365, or 400, or even for 7,000 years. In the opinion of others its period is to equal the time from the creation of the world, or else from Noah, to the "present" day. Similar statements, often merely ascribed to other authors, are found in Yalḳ. 806. Sanh. 97a quotes Abaye and an old baraita, which is found also in 'Ab. Zarah 9a, to the effect that the Messianic period comprises two of the six millenniums of the world, while R. Ḳeṭina and a baraita make the interesting statement that the 6,000 years of the world will be concluded by the seventh thousand of the Messianic kingdom. In the passage in Yalḳuṭ. already quoted, this same view is ascribed to two tannaim of the second century. Both of these chronologies are based on the calculation found in Ps. xc. 4 ("For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday"), a comparison of which with the account of Creation formed the basis for the 6,000 years of the duration of the world, while the Sabbath corresponded to the seventh thousand, that of the Messiah.

 

[Earburner]

Here is actual info:

MILLENNIUM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also "chiliasm," designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 ("And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish"); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between

and

, although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.

There are various views regarding the duration of this kingdom, and there is considerable confusion in traditional literature on this point, one and the same opinion being often quoted as held by different authorities. According to the two baraitot in Sanh. 99a, the Messianic kingdom is to last for 40, or 70, or 365, or 400, or even for 7,000 years. In the opinion of others its period is to equal the time from the creation of the world, or else from Noah, to the "present" day. Similar statements, often merely ascribed to other authors, are found in Yalḳ. 806. Sanh. 97a quotes Abaye and an old baraita, which is found also in 'Ab. Zarah 9a, to the effect that the Messianic period comprises two of the six millenniums of the world, while R. Ḳeṭina and a baraita make the interesting statement that the 6,000 years of the world will be concluded by the seventh thousand of the Messianic kingdom. In the passage in Yalḳuṭ. already quoted, this same view is ascribed to two tannaim of the second century. Both of these chronologies are based on the calculation found in Ps. xc. 4 ("For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday"), a comparison of which with the account of Creation formed the basis for the 6,000 years of the duration of the world, while the Sabbath corresponded to the seventh thousand, that of the Messiah.

Okay, so why are PreMils following the "concept" of the Jewish religion, which is "of that spirit of antichrist"?

 

[Earburner]

The concept of saints being "less worthy" is a strawman fallacy you invented.

It doesn't matter whether you think it to be a fallacy or not.
Whether it be one Christian martyr in the Early church age, or 5000 Christian martyrs in the End time Church age, all of such died under persecution, and are equal in the sight of the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

The measuring device that God is using, in order for Him to END His Age of Grace, through Jesus, is "repentance".

If in this Age, there is only one person who comes to repentance towards God, then His Age of Grace shall continue. But, should there be no more who come in repentance towards Him, after that person, He will destroy this planet, in the SAME time that He redeems ALL of his saints. Luke 17:28-30, Rom. 8:8-9,
2 Thes. 1:7-10, Gen. 18:17-33.

Now we can have a better understanding of what God meant, of what it is He wants us to know about His Grace, our repentance towards Him and His measuring gauge of us. Gen. 18:17-33.

 

[ewq1938]

It doesn't matter whether you think it to be a fallacy or not.
Whether it be one Christian martyr in the Early church age, or 5000 Christian martyrs in the End time Church age, all of such died under persecution, and are equal in the sight of the Lord.

It is a strawman fallacy because no one is claiming anything opposed to that. You are inventing something to argue against that no one believes in.

 

[ewq1938]

Okay, so why are PreMils following the "concept" of the Jewish religion, which is "of that spirit of antichrist"?

They aren't. You have a created a false accusation.

 

[Earburner]

It is a strawman fallacy because no one is claiming anything opposed to that. You are inventing something to argue against that no one believes in.

As a PreMil believer, do you discount those martyrs that died for their witness of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, and those who have been martyred for the word of God, long BEFORE the MoB is issued?

Or is it that you think that Jesus doesn't have to mention them, who have already "come out of great tribulation"?
We are not talking about your erroneous belief of a 3.5-7 year period of "THE" Great Tribulation", but rather the entire Age of God's Grace, through the Lord Jesus.

Maybe you think that the words "of great tribulation" ONLY applies to the time of the "beast" and the issuance of "the mark".
If you do, then you would be wrong.
All the saints are equal in His sight.

You might want to read about the seven churches, specifically:
Smyrna 2:10
Pergamos 2:13
Thyatira 2:22
Philadelphia 3:10

 

[ewq1938]

As a PreMil believer, do you discount those martyrs that died for their witness of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, and those who have been martyred for the word of God, long BEFORE the MoB is issued?

Or is it that you think that Jesus doesn't have to mention them, who have already "come out of great tribulation"?
We are not talking about your erroneous belief of a 3.5-7 year period of "THE" Great Tribulation", but rather the entire Age of God's Grace, through the Lord Jesus.

Maybe you think that the words "of great tribulation" ONLY applies to the time of the "beast" and the issuance of "the mark".
If you do, then you would be wrong.

I'm not wrong, nor is Christ. The GT is when the beast and the MOB exist during a 42 month period. Your Preterist beliefs are unscriptural.