No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

[DNB]

Yeah, I know a lot of Christians. They are the ones I was speaking of when I said I get tired of one thing from their mouths and another thing from their behavior.

And don't get me started on the friend who goes to a church (supposedly) where they call the preacher "the apostle." I asked her had she seen him raise the dead or heal the lame. She said no, so I asked then why they called him the apostle.

I want to see the power of God, but just because I don't doesn't make me think there is no power. It just makes me think we are the church in Rev that Jesus says is almost dead.

Great point, me too, ...but then why is everyone claiming to hear divine voices, have inspired dreams, or see epiphanies?
This is the whole crux of my contention. ...but it seems that you still want to insist that your dream had some profound and inspired meaning behind it. Read the cereal box one day, tell me if you can't fine a 'divine' message from it, seriously (you know what I mean).

 

[DNB]

This was fine...until...



Then this contradiction. Why?

I'm the same guy that I've always been, before & after my conversion. Not in sin, but in wisdom and inspiration. Like every other Christian that I've ever met. Please don't say otherwise, for if you do, i want to see witness to the spirit like in the Book of Acts. Only that will I accept.

 

[amadeus]

I've had dreams where I was walking right beside God and He was talking, but for some reason, I see Him out of the corner of my eye but never see what He actually looks like. That's odd.

Not odd at all! You are seeing, even if, as Apostle Paul was seeing when he wrote I Cor 13:12, through a glass, darkly, that is already 100% better than having no vision at all:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

Too many people are afraid of what they might see, so they don't even want to look and want us to hide what we really have seen:

"And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him." Ex 34:30

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Will you please stop having dreams, shared or not, and start showing that you're endowed with something holy, by expounding on the scriptures?
For example, to this day, i still get stumped by atheists, and have a hard time explaining the atonement of Christ, in a rational manner that an unbeliever or believer can be edified.
Are any of your dreams able to help me with that?

No, my dreams cannot help you. And as for speaking with unbelievers, I don't think you will do much good without the Holy Spirit, who you say you have not met or received, because you aren't to worry about what you will say but He will give you the words to say to a particular person. Sometimes, I think to say something to someone struggling with life but no words come to me and so I just don't say anything about Jesus because I guess maybe they aren't ready.

Actually, I don't think I'm an evangelist. The people He seems to put before me sometimes have heard the gospel message but never grasped that its about trusting Him rather than worrying. But I don't ever rehearse what to say beforehand. I usually just say something without thinking, like...but all this worry is the opposite of trusting God, and they suddenly look like a fire has been lit under them.

I can hear your frustration.

 

[amadeus]

And unbelievers have shared dreams of a. Falling from a great height and b. Standing completely naked in a large crowd of people. Its sort of...our beginning and our end, where a light so bright will shine on us that nothing will be hidden...

My own recurring dream as a believer has been of me, myself, soaring through the heavens never in danger of falling any more:

"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Great point, me too, ...but then why is everyone claiming to hear divine voices, have inspired dreams, or see epiphanies?
This is the whole crux of my contention. ...but it seems that you still want to insist that your dream had some profound and inspired meaning behind it. Read the cereal box one day, tell me if you can't fine a 'divine' message from it, seriously (you know what I mean).

I didn't say those dreams I had of walking beside Him had some profound meaning. Most of the time, I would wake from them trying to remember something He said that, in my dream, I had been repeating over and over because I found it amazing and didn't want to forget it. But no matter how hard I tried to remember what the phrase was, I couldn't. So I stopped trying so hard to remember and just figured I'd let Him worry about whatever He was doing. (Shrugs shoulders).

 

[mjrhealth]

For the 5th time, tell me what God & Jesus looked like, for starters. And then, let the forum decide on how inspired that you were.

How does one describe love, when you see Jesus wheter on the cross or standing with you, all you see is the Love He has for you and the biggest smile on His face, as For God, can you find any one who can describe God... I wasnt that close to Him I guess it is because I am not as close to him as I could be, should be, but I know what Is saw and it was no "dream" as you put it, there is a big difference between dreams and visions. I was with my Ex for nearly 16 years, even though I still Love her, I cannot describe her face.

I doubt this would be enough for you either..

remember Thomas

Joh_20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 

[DNB]

No, my dreams cannot help you. And as for speaking with unbelievers, I don't think you will do much good without the Holy Spirit, who you say you have not met or received, because you aren't to worry about what you will say but He will give you the words to say to a particular person. Sometimes, I think to say something to someone struggling with life but no words come to me and so I just don't say anything about Jesus because I guess maybe they aren't ready.

Actually, I don't think I'm an evangelist. The people He seems to put before me sometimes have heard the gospel message but never grasped that its about trusting Him rather than worrying. But I don't ever rehearse what to say beforehand. I usually just say something without thinking, like...but all this worry is the opposite of trusting God, and they suddenly look like a fire has been lit under them.

I can hear your frustration.

ok, ...it's a shame, all these dreams, all these inspired people abounding with the Holy Spirit, and not one can settle an issue?
I wonder if Paul or Peter would've replied to me in the same manner?
Am I the only sound and honest one on this site, that admits that he doesn't have the Holy Spirit?

 

[mjrhealth]

ok, ...it's a shame, all these dreams, all these inspired people abounding with the Holy Spirit, and not
Am I the only sound and honest one on this site, that admits that he doesn't have the Holy Spirit?

Thats an assumption and which you will now have to take up with God, because all Gods children have His spirit, it is His gift to them, do you not therefore count yourself amongst Gods children.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

 

[DNB]

I didn't say those dreams I had of walking beside Him had some profound meaning. Most of the time, I would wake from them trying to remember something He said that, in my dream, I had been repeating over and over because I found it amazing and didn't want to forget it. But no matter how hard I tried to remember what the phrase was, I couldn't. So I stopped trying so hard to remember and just figured I'd let Him worry about whatever He was doing. (Shrugs shoulders).

I hope that you're right SBG, and I hope that you remember what you heard and that it is truly profound and edifying.
Sorry, but I'm a skeptic. For, I have had visions and dreams like that too, and I consider them absolute rubbish now. It was just my imagination repeating what i had already read in scripture. Nothing more.

 

[DNB]

How does one describe love, when you see Jesus wheter on the cross or standing with you, all you see is the Love He has for you and the biggest smile on His face, as For God, can you find any one who can describe God... I wasnt that close to Him I guess it is because I am not as close to him as I could be, should be, but I know what Is saw and it was no "dream" as you put it, there is a big difference between dreams and visions. I was with my Ex for nearly 16 years, even though I still Love her, I cannot describe her face.

I doubt this would be enough for you either..

remember Thomas

Joh_20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

My point is, it just doesn't have the power that I would expect from the Holy Spirit, that's all. A smile on Jesus' face, just doesn't do it for me. One doesn't need a vision for that.
In other words, as I just told StunnedByGrace, in my early Christian years, i too had a vision, but the one who saved me told me that it was rubbish, and he was right. I saw exactly what the scriptures described, so it was just my frivolity that made me believe that it was an epiphany.
One gets very exuberant when they're converted, and they start to feel that they're special in some way, or have a superior awareness and understanding. Most Christians do, it's called self-righteousness, or just naivete. I succumbed to it, at the time.
I want to see real power before I accept it's from God, not just a repetition from scripture.

 

[DNB]

Thats an assumption and which you will now have to take up with God, because all Gods children have His spirit, it is His gift to them, do you not therefore count yourself amongst Gods children.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

You'll have to do better than having a dream about a smiling Jesus, and him saying 'I died for you', for me to believe that God is inspiring you in any way. One doesn't need a vision for that type of basic information, it's all in the Bible, a thousand times over.

 

[mjrhealth]

You'll have to do better than having a dream about a smiling Jesus, and him saying 'I died for you', for me to believe that God is inspiring you in any way. One doesn't need a vision for that type of basic information, it's all in the Bible, a thousand times over.

Oh so Jesus telling me He dies for you is not inspring to you?? ,, but than teh devil wouldnt want you to know that, would he.

 

[mjrhealth]

I want to see real power before I accept it's from God, not just a repetition from scripture.

Shall I requote

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

or again

Luk_11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

As I said, where you believe it or not is no skin off my nose it is God Jesus and the Holy Spirit you are bringing into question

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus, I am a Christian, one that has accepted Christ as his Saviour, that is how I have the right to discern nonsense from wisdom, truth from falsehood, delusion from fact. Will you rebuke me from applying some common sense?

If I did rebuke you it was for discounting what was outside of your experience or opposed to you own beliefs as all foolishness. I don't hold much with the expression, "common sense", which usually refers to what carnal men in one region hold as correct while in another region the definition of "common sense" would be quite different. Most things held by men as "common sense" are quite often contrary to the Word of God.

Jesus was called names and rejected by the only "official" leadership of the followers of God [within for the most part the natural descendants of Jacob/Israel] supposedly basing their rejection on what was written under the inspiration of God by Moses and the prophets. To them, for the most part, rather than holding their peace about things they did not understand they criticized and condemned Him. They conspired secretly against Him. These were men who did know the scriptures and some them knew God. Where were Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus when Jesus was railroaded and killed unjustly for lies told about Him? How much tolerance should we have? How much patience? When do we decide we are right enough condemn other based on our "common sense" as if that were the Word of God?

You do have a right to hold an opinion, but go slow about equating your opinion or even your own beliefs with God's Truth. None of us, [and that certainly includes me] have it all right. Jesus did, but none of us are Jesus and all of us sometimes are in error. Jeremiah's words apply to believers today:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

When we are "in the Spirit" or led by the Spirit, we are right, but who among us is always "in the Spirit" or led by the Spirit? A look around our society consisting supposedly of a large majority of Christians raises a question about that, doe it not? The number of existing denominations using often the same Bibles also raises questions, does it not?

I am waiting for someone to have a true revelation or prophecy, where we all can be edified from it and Glorify God for it's wisdom, ...that, I will call divinely inspired.
But for the amount of times I've heard of inspiration, and the absolute nonsense that followed, would you prefer that I remain credulous, and worse, disgrace God by accepting this foolishness as being from the Holy Spirit?
This is the ramification, and why I appear vehement about it. Why give the enemy an opportunity to mock us and our God, with such pathetic wisdom and power?
I ask, were you impressed with his vision, were you inspired by it, or have you heard the same thing, in essence, a thousand times?

Be sure you know your enemy before you attack. God does! Jesus as a man did! Do we?

I have known @mjrhealth for a long time. He was on this forum a long time before you were and has only recently returned. People don't understand or believe probably a lot of what he says, but I have seldom had a problem with understanding him and more often than not I agree with him. I do not doubt his testimony.

You apparently are familiar with the Bible so you probably know how faith is defined. Do you see everything with your natural eyes? Do you see everything with your spiritual eyes? Does anyone have better natural vision than you do? Does anyone have better spiritual vision than you do?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

Sorry if I have needlessly ruffled your feathers, but please consider more carefully and pray for God's guidance before disposing of something outside of your personal experience of even against your current beliefs.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ok, ...it's a shame, all these dreams, all these inspired people abounding with the Holy Spirit, and not one can settle an issue?
I wonder if Paul or Peter would've replied to me in the same manner?
Am I the only sound and honest one on this site, that admits that he doesn't have the Holy Spirit?

What issue is it you want settled?

And to have the Holy Spirit in you, I am convinced, is not the same thing as walking in the Spirit. I have received the Holy Spirit but I do not walk in power. He abides in me but I do not abide in Him. I think it is a lack of trust in me that prevents it. So all I know to do is begin to practice trust whenever I see I am failing in it. I see some headway. I see I am getting firmer in trust when met with temptations to worry, panic, despair and agonize.

It's all I know to do, since it says, and He could not do many miracles there because of their lack of trust. I think it is the key. Trust. I think it IS the race we are in.

I think I look at it all very practically. I read, if we abide in Him we do not sin, and I think...so if I sin still, in unbelief or mistrust for provision or by murdering in anger in my heart, then I must not be abiding. Which leads me to ask, what IS abiding, I want to do it. And the answer I have come up with is it means remaining in trust and growing in trust. So every direction I go I keep coming back to trust. So I just keep stubbornly insisting on it because I think a lack of it (despite what we say) is the problem of why we are so weak.

 

[DNB]

Oh so Jesus telling me He dies for you is not inspring to you?? ,, but than teh devil wouldnt want you to know that, would he.

My point is, I already knew that, your 'revelation' wasn't much of a revelation, was it?

 

[DNB]

Shall I requote

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

or again

Luk_11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

As I said, where you believe it or not is no skin off my nose it is God Jesus and the Holy Spirit you are bringing into question

Talk is cheap!

 

[mjrhealth]

Talk is cheap!

Yes you clearly made that clear.

 

[mjrhealth]

My point is, I already knew that, your 'revelation' wasn't much of a revelation, was it?

So did I, but you dont think that hearing it from the "Masters Voice" is good enough for you, as I have stated before,

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.