No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

[DNB]

When we are "in the Spirit" or led by the Spirit, we are right, but who among us is always "in the Spirit" or led by the Spirit? A look around our society consisting supposedly of a large majority of Christians raises a question about that, doe it not? The number of existing denominations using often the same Bibles also raises questions, does it not?

Well, this is my point, isn't it? Amadeus, I am not against prophecy, inspiration, epiphanies and even miracles. I have just heard too many Christians claim that they are speaking through the Holy Spirit, and that anyone that questions it, is challenging God. What more do i need to say? You just said it yourself, i.e. where in our predominantly Christian society, do we see it, ...nowhere.
I will never have the audacity to make such a claim! You are calling me stiff-necked and audacious, but truly it is the alleged beholders of the Holy Spirit that are making the boasts, and potentially insulting God. They are in the precarious position, not me.
You implied it yourself, the gift is rare, I'm leaning on the side of caution, they are not.
Like I told the others on this thread, I've had these visions too which I thought were incredible at the time, but shortly afterwards, I realized that it was just my novice Christian naivete, that led me to have these childish fantasies.

 

[DNB]

What issue is it you want settled?

And to have the Holy Spirit in you, I am convinced, is not the same thing as walking in the Spirit. I have received the Holy Spirit but I do not walk in power. He abides in me but I do not abide in Him. I think it is a lack of trust in me that prevents it. So all I know to do is begin to practice trust whenever I see I am failing in it. I see some headway. I see I am getting firmer in trust when met with temptations to worry, panic, despair and agonize.

It's all I know to do, since it says, and He could not do many miracles there because of their lack of trust. I think it is the key. Trust. I think it IS the race we are in.

I think I look at it all very practically. I read, if we abide in Him we do not sin, and I think...so if I sin still, in unbelief or mistrust for provision or by murdering in anger in my heart, then I must not be abiding. Which leads me to ask, what IS abiding, I want to do it. And the answer I have come up with is it means remaining in trust and growing in trust. So every direction I go I keep coming back to trust. So I just keep stubbornly insisting on it because I think a lack of it (despite what we say) is the problem of why we are so weak.

The issues that I asked you to address, atonement, apologetics, evangelization...
Yes, that has a lot to do with it. Faith, trust, love, wisdom. The more we know him, the more we love him, the more we trust him,...

 

[DNB]

So did I, but you dont think that hearing it from the "Masters Voice" is good enough for you, as I have stated before,

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

MJR, I hope that you're right, and I hope that if you are, God continues to inspire you.
I must remain a skeptic for now, I heard the claim too many times, and always failed to witness the power behind the revelation itself, and the person who made the claim. I just mean that in general. So much claims of inspiration, and the Church is so weak. Something's not adding up?

 

[amadeus]

Well, this is my point, isn't it? Amadeus, I am not against prophecy, inspiration, epiphanies and even miracles. I have just heard too many Christians claim that they are speaking through the Holy Spirit, and that anyone that questions it, is challenging God. What more do i need to say? You just said it yourself, i.e. where in our predominantly Christian society, do we see it, ...nowhere.
I will never have the audacity to make such a claim! You are calling me stiff-necked and audacious, but truly it is the alleged beholders of the Holy Spirit that are making the boasts, and potentially insulting God. They are in the precarious position, not me.
You implied it yourself, the gift is rare, I'm leaning on the side of caution, they are not.
Like I told the others on this thread, I've had these visions too which I thought were incredible at the time, but shortly afterwards, I realized that it was just my novice Christian naivete, that led me to have these childish fantasies.

I understand very well what you are saying. My point, is if a person is against God, no one needs to prove it. On the other hand, if a person is on God's side, it is also not necessary to prove it.

You leaning on the side of caution, not by moving cautiously, but diving with both feet. Remember the wisdom of Gamaliel, who was not a follower of Jesus:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5:38-39

What always try to do, [not always successfully] is follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. Presuming that you are always following His lead because you have received the gift of the Holy Spirit can get you into trouble.

 

[DNB]

I understand very well what you are saying. My point, is if a person is against God, no one needs to prove it. On the other hand, if a person is on God's side, it is also not necessary to prove it.

You leaning on the side of caution, not by moving cautiously, but diving with both feet. Remember the wisdom of Gamaliel, who was not a follower of Jesus:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5:38-39

What always try to do, [not always successfully] is follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. Presuming that you are always following His lead because you have received the gift of the Holy Spirit can get you into trouble.

Well, then I would think that both sides need to employ caution, the mind is powerful, and even the atheists have dreams.
I want to see the power before, I, as a Christian, will dare claim something to be by the power of God, and risk insulting him.
You also Amadeus, must not forget about certain scriptures too, as in the unforgivable sin, i.e. claiming something that is from God, to be of the devil. Arguably, the converse would be true also, that is, claiming that something came from God, when it came from elsewhere.

 

[mjrhealth]

. Something's not adding up?

I guess you miss the distinction between our Lords Church the Bride of Christ Holy Spotless without blemish, and mens churches the daughters of the great harlot. Jesus isnt preparing "mens churches" He is preparing His bride...

 

[Jenniferdiana3637]

I guess you miss the distinction between our Lords Church the Bride of Christ Holy Spotless without blemish, and mens churches the daughters of the great harlot. Jesus isnt preparing "mens churches" He is preparing His bride...

Why would they accept the "bride" though, they would probably treat her worst then Jesus...I will fairly say though that half of Christianity is so decieved and misled that they probably don't even know who the " bride of Christ" is or if there is such a thing because of man made false doctrine and people's own presumed opinions and insights like some on these forums and every where else on the internet so the bride gets ignored and assumed false cause of what people teach and claim to know about the Lord's truths.. or they probably do know and is trying to overlook it and hide it ...

 

[mjrhealth]

Why would they accept the "bride" though, they would probably treat her worst then Jesus...

Its happening here right in front of you, the harlot persecuting His bride,

 

[Jenniferdiana3637]

Its happening here right in front of you, the harlot persecuting His bride,

Who is the harlot?

 

[mjrhealth]

Who is the harlot?

Ill do that quietly might start a flame war and i have had enough of those

 

[Jenniferdiana3637]

Ill do that quietly might start a flame war and i have had enough of those

Well pm me then and it seems like the war already started on this board lol

 

[mjrhealth]

Well pm me then and it seems like the war already started on this board lol

I started one with my other favorite havnt seen a response yet, im sure it will be fire breathing and filed with stones. I dont expect any less from him. thanks for teh decent discussion they are few and far between on christian boards.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The issues that I asked you to address, atonement, apologetics, evangelization...
Yes, that has a lot to do with it. Faith, trust, love, wisdom. The more we know him, the more we love him, the more we trust him,...

Well, DNB, apologetics is not what the OP wanted to talk about or address...but if you are willing to start a thread on these issues you want addressed I'm willing to contribute what I can.

 

[DNB]

I guess you miss the distinction between our Lords Church the Bride of Christ Holy Spotless without blemish, and mens churches the daughters of the great harlot. Jesus isnt preparing "mens churches" He is preparing His bride...

Either way, the visible Church as a whole, is weak and defeated, compared to the Biblical promises of empowerment from the Holy Spirit. Of which i believe in, but have a very tempered view of it. Unlike yourself who is full of fantasy, delusion and immaturity. Just saying.

 

[DNB]

Well, DNB, apologetics is not what the OP wanted to talk about or address...but if you are willing to start a thread on these issues you want addressed I'm willing to contribute what I can.

Those issues, in regards to the Holy Spirit guiding us to the answers.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Those issues, in regards to the Holy Spirit guiding us to the answers.

Okay, start the thread then.

 

[amadeus]

Well, then I would think that both sides need to employ caution, the mind is powerful, and even the atheists have dreams.
I want to see the power before, I, as a Christian, will dare claim something to be by the power of God, and risk insulting him.
You also Amadeus, must not forget about certain scriptures too, as in the unforgivable sin, i.e. claiming something that is from God, to be of the devil. Arguably, the converse would be true also, that is, claiming that something came from God, when it came from elsewhere.

Very well my friend, but don't be too concerned about that unforgiveable sin. That, I believe, must be done knowingly on purpose. Work on yourself and when you feel led, warn others, but be very slow on openly accusing is my advice even though it may "seem" unlikely to you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I was just thinking that we have two distinct problems. One is a lack of trust, despite our protests. The other is not being able to find others to gather with, because God gives gifts for the building up of the body, not for the building up of each person severally.

I truly think if we work on and struggle through our trust problems, He will give us the people who we should meet with, and I dont think it will be big groups to start.

 

[Davy]

And "the one whose right it is" is none other than the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days [the Father], and they brought Him [Christ] near before Him [the Father]. And there was given Him [Christ] dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14)

That's right, and that throne is the earthly throne of His flesh father David.

Luke 1:32-33
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

Acts 2:29-30
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
KJV

That throne is not in Heaven. It is an earthly throne. Our Lord Jesus is not sitting on it yet; instead He is sitting at the right hand of The Father's throne, still expecting, until all His enemies are made His footstool.

 

[Davy]

I was just thinking that we have two distinct problems. One is a lack of trust, despite our protests. The other is not being able to find others to gather with, because God gives gifts for the building up of the body, not for the building up of each person severally.

I truly think if we work on and struggle through our trust problems, He will give us the people who we should meet with, and I dont think it will be big groups to start.

That's always been true, if one makes of theirself a disciple of our Lord Jesus by staying in His Word, then He will lead us to those who most want and need help, and also bring them to us.