No One Dies And Goes To Heaven. It is not the Gospel of Christ.

[MTPockets]

There is no where in scripture that teaches or even implies that anyone dies and goes to heaven. It is not in the Gospel of Christ and in fact contradicts a need for the resurrection from the dead at Christs' return.
There is no scripture or teaching in the bible that says that anyone goes to heaven at all. The Kingdom of heaven is here on earth after the Resurrection of the dead. They are brought back to life from death to live and rule on earth during Christs' thousand year reign.

Hi! 'Son Of Man'
Let's first deal with your claim saying: no where in scripture does it teach that anyone dies and goes to heaven.
On one hand, you opinion could be said to be correct for those who believe the ideologies of cultural religion in our present day, (Luke 11:52)
On the other hand, your opinion would be found false for those who have discovered the keys of the Kingdom, (Matthew 16:19 &, Luke 12:32)
Regardless, the very premise of your Post became suspect by you adding, "The kingdom of heaven is here on earth".
The kingdom of heaven is not something to be located; it's an atmosphere ... perhaps, better said: a dimension.
The kingdom of heaven is the dimension where the activities of both the kingdom of light and kingdom of darkness occur.
(We could maybe picture it as like the kingdom/nation of the USA containing 50 realms/states.)
It is the kingdom of heaven which gives shape to the "heavens" of Genesis, (Gen 1:1).
In the kingdom of heaven there are several kingdoms/realms which are in fierce opposition to each other.
Example: The kingdom of His dear Son which is ruled by the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, (Col 1:13), which is opposed by the kingdom of satan which is ruled by Sin and Death, (Rom 8:2).

About the "resurrection of the dead":
The doctrine of the resurrection of the dead is one of the most important pillars of Christianity, (1Cor 15:13-14).
Let me plainly ask you:
What is now the resurrection of the dead? Does it mean that the graves are opened and the tombstones lifted and dead people suddenly arise?
But then how about those who died ages ago whose graves have vanished?
How about the martyrs who were burned, their ashes strewn out in the river?
I should think the scriptures can easily answer those questions: "But some one will ask, 'How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come? You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as He has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body", 1Cor 15:35-49)..

Our inner as well as our outer man is concerned in the resurrection of the dead; it is the restoration of soul, spirit and body. It is a process of renewal starting at repentance and regeneration and for those who are in Christ, finishing with a physical return to life at the Lord's coming.

The "resurrection of the dead" is speaking about those who share in the first resurrection, (Revelation 20:4-6).
The first resurrection starts when man's life is restored on the new foundation of God and is completed in the physical resurrection.
Every born again Christian who is physically alive in this day and hour is experiencing the "resurrection of the dead" ... the first resurrection!

Our resurrection from the dead speaks about a change from death into life, from darkness into light, deliverance from the power of Satan and a return to God.

In the case of the prodigal son resurrection started when he said: 'I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' His resurrection became a fact when the Father accepted him, put the best robe on him, and provided a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet. Then the Father said about his son: 'He was dead, and is alive again.' (Luke 15:11-32).

Jesus described our resurrection from the dead with these words: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live", (John 5:24-25).

The kernel has the invisible life in itself and this life is the beginning of the new plant. The kernel does not produce a kernel, but a new plant which will produce new kernels later. The new life starts at regeneration and it grows just like a plant develops from the seed. The seed is not made alive, it dies. But that which was its life develops into a new plant.

In the same way the physical body that dies is not made alive again but decomposes in the same way as the outside of the kernel. The inner life develops into a new appearance, different from the seed, but in keeping with the laws of life that were hidden in it. From every seed an individual body develops. It may be a tree, a shrub, or some kind of corn or any other kind of plant. The plant that develops may be compared with the spiritual house. The seed that vanished decomposes to dust, picture of the natural body, but the plant itself develops in another atmosphere where there is light and air and sun.

When the Lord returns those who slept in Christ will be raised, they will arise first. But it is their spiritual body which is raised, (1Cor 15:44), because their physical body has long returned to dust and will not be raised.

Resurrection is a new life and work in the unseen world. Those who have fallen asleep have rested from their labors, but at a sign of the Most High they will arise and take up their work. The power of God gives substance to their spiritual bodies, giving it flesh and bones, similar to that of the glorified Jesus. At all times, however the spiritual body remains spiritual, that is subjected to spiritual laws only, not to earthly laws. For that reason it is not confined in time or place; this body cannot be localized or entered into a time-scheme.

Yes, it's very true that life in the body of resurrection is a mystery. Nevertheless, I will give you a weak comparison:
We know that water vapor is invisible. It is subject to the physical laws for gases. Water vapor is even able to penetrate walls. Under certain circumstances, however, it is transformed and becomes visible as water, fog, frost, snow or hail, which are all subjected to the laws for solids or liquids. The Lord's immortal body was able to penetrate doors but at the same time Jesus said: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have", (Luke 24:39).
When Jesus ascended to heaven a cloud "took Him out of their sight". Now He is in the kingdom of heaven/heavenly places only; although the possibility exists for our Lord to appear in a visible shape, (Mark 16:12).
This is what happened to John at Patmos, and to Paul, who was told that he was appointed "to see the Just One and to hear a voice from His mouth", (Acts 22:14).

During his life on earth, a Christian lives and moves in two worlds.
In his physical body, he is on earth, "away from the Lord" in a foreign country.
But his spiritual body is in Christ, that is in Christ's body.
When he dies, he is detached from the natural sphere and dwells with the Lord only.
When Jesus returns to earth, He is accompanied by the saints who have fallen asleep. When He appears they will appear with Him. The Christians who are alive left until the coming of the Lord. will be changed in a moment, "in the twinkling of an eye", and their perishable bodies will be transformed into immortal and glorified bodies. In these bodies they will be caught up to meet the Lord to join the saints who have already risen, (1Thess 4:16-17).
Then the time has come that the "planting of the Lord" will be functioning anew and bear new fruit.
These 'trees of life,' the Bible says, will bear fruit twelve times, yielding it each month, and their leaves (the gifts of the spirit) are for the healing of the nations.

What I have commented only addresses the first resurrection; it does refer to the last resurrection.
It is at the last resurrection when the dead, small and great, will stand before the throne of God.

 

[Raeneske]

Then that interpretation would go against the very matter of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 about Christ going to the "spirits in prison" to preach The Gospel to them, and per the Isaiah 42:7 Scripture leading prisoners out that believed on Him.

We are not literally 'asleep' in the grave when our flesh dies. That was only a metaphor to represent how Christ's saints can never perish, which is why in some places in The Gospel Books Christ used the idea of death and sleep interchangeably. Apostle Paul covers that specific point in 1 Cor.15 too, that if one does not believe that Christ was raised from the dead, then it would mean the brethren that had died are perished.

Peter still speaking on the subject of The Gospel and the "spirits in prison" said this...

1 Pet 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(KJV)

This is not stating that he literally preached unto dead people, but to people that were dead in their sins

Also, the people in prison whom Christ preached, were the souls that are bound, and prisoners of sin.

 

[tim_from_pa]

There is no where in scripture that teaches or even implies that anyone dies and goes to heaven. It is not in the Gospel of Christ and in fact contradicts a need for the resurrection from the dead at Christs' return.
There is no scripture or teaching in the bible that says that anyone goes to heaven at all. The Kingdom of heaven is here on earth after the Resurrection of the dead. They are brought back to life from death to live and rule on earth during Christs' thousand year reign.

OK, now my turn to debate since this was started. Let's read what he stated. Hmmmmm. He's absolutely correct! No debates from me. Oh dear, I guess I'm not very good at this debating stuff. :lol: OK... jumping to the next thread....

 

[veteran]

veteran,
I hate to rain on your parade, but scripture does not support your premis that we are concious in the grave. Paslm 146:4, and Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 tell a different tale. 5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything neithor have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neithor have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.

Before you think you've rained on my parade, which really isn't my parade, you may want to think about who those dead are really about there, for that's about the dead that 'perish' in the "lake of fire". It's not about God's people under Christ Jesus.

Or maybe you do believe those who 'sleep in Jesus' are forgotten, have no more reward, are perished, and neither have any more a portion FOR EVER in anything that is done under the sun?

Veteran,

There are flesh and blood human beings and there are spirit beings. That's it.
While there have been a very few human beings raised from the dead in flesh and blood bodies, there has only been ONE who has been raised from the dead as spirit. That was the Christ. No other has ever before or since been raised as spirit.

The saved in Christ have the promise to be raised in the first resurrection as spirit beings. That change takes place at His coming - not before. It does not take place upon our death. We do not change into a spirit being when we die. Only in the resurrection of the saints does this happen.

There are no former human beings who are now spirit beings in any prison or lazing around in any paradise. The dead are resting in their graves until called forth in one of the resurrections.

You're wrong, and Christ shows how with His example in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man. Paul also shows how in 2 Cor.5. Not only that, but The Gospel witness of those who resurrected at Christ's crucifixion, went into Jerusalem and 'appeared' to many, is also a testimony against the doctrine of men you've believed instead.

This is not stating that he literally preached unto dead people, but to people that were dead in their sins

Also, the people in prison whom Christ preached, were the souls that are bound, and prisoners of sin.

1 Pet 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(KJV)

You guys on the 'dead in the casket' tradition of men can't make your mind up. You quote Eclessiastes 9 saying those are about dead flesh people, and then you turn around in 1 Pet.3 and 1 Pet.4 and say they mean the fallen angels. Those who can easily see through that contradiction between the two Scriptures realize it's nothing but another one of the false doctrines of men, and not Biblical.

 

[Hezekiah]

Veteran,

David was one of God's favorites. Why didn't God take him to heaven, or paradise, Abraham's bosom, or Pensacola?

Act 2:29

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35

Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
If you refuse to believe Paul, then will you also refuse to believe the Christ Himself?

Joh_3:13


And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Still don't believe it, correct?
Well, if any of your spirits are in Heaven, Paradise, Abraham's Bosom, or Los Angeles, they are blooming idiots.

Psa_146:4


His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job_14:21


His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Psa_6:5


For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

That should be enough but you will still probably hold to your false beliefs. Get rid of the cobwebs and remove the scales from your eyes my Friend.

 

[veteran]

Veteran,

David was one of God's favorites. Why didn't God take him to heaven, or paradise, Abraham's bosom, or Pensacola?

You think David's soul died with his flesh? That idea is not Biblical.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(KJV)

Does a flesh body perish in that 'hell' (Greek 'geena', put for the "lake of fire")? No. With those who perish with Satan in the "lake of fire", it's their spiritual body with soul that perishes in it, not a flesh body. That's the destruction of "both soul and body in hell" that Jesus is talking about, which can only occur after... flesh death. It is the "second death" of Rev.20. As per Eccl.12:5-7, the flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Jesus reveals that "soul" and the resurrection body Paul taught is what perishes in the fire.

Act 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

If you refuse to believe Paul, then will you also refuse to believe the Christ Himself?

That was David talking about Christ's resurrection and ascending to the right hand of the throne of The Father. No man has done that. Yet the place called Paradise is... in the heavenly dimension. It's just not the same place as where God and His throne is. Likewise the bottomless pit is in the heavenly dimension also, and not in the same place as God's Abode.

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
(KJV)

That is given in association with specific tribulation timing events. It's linked to Dan.12:1 also. So it is NOT... about Satan's original fall. How is it then, that war can take place in heaven, and 'their' place is no more found in heaven after that war?

Joh_3:13

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Still don't believe it, correct?
Well, if any of your spirits are in Heaven, Paradise, Abraham's Bosom, or Los Angeles, they are blooming idiots.

Your legalist view on that directly contradicts Scripture about God taking Elijah to Heaven. How do you account for that, and for Enoch who also did not die because God took him and he was not? How do you account for the event of Christ speaking to Moses and Elijah upon the mount of transfiguration during the Apostle's days? See, there's obviously more meaning to what our Lord Jesus was saying there. We cannot just pick and choose Scripture we want and then default to a doctrine of men.

Psa_146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job_14:21
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Psa_6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

That should be enough but you will still probably hold to your false beliefs. Get rid of the cobwebs and remove the scales from your eyes my Friend.

Picking and choosing what you want is all you're doing, instead of keeping those verses in context. All I need do is cover more of the subject there as written...


Ps 146:3-9
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
6 Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:
7 Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
8 The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
9 The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.
(KJV)

In that Ps.146 example, the just are being contrasted with the wicked. God preserves the righteous, but not the wicked. The idea of putting one's trust in the son of man and in princes means life according to this world, which means to lose eternal Life through Christ. So there's a WHOLE LOT MORE there being said than just some flesh idea about death.


Ps 6:1-9
1 O LORD, rebuke me not in Thine anger, neither chasten me in Thy hot displeasure.
2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
3 My soul is also sore vexed: but Thou, O LORD, how long?
4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for Thy mercies' sake.
5 For in death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
9 The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
(KJV)

Lot more being said there too. For those who perish, there is no Salvation. What sense is that, because even the flesh of the saved perishes? He is asking for God to forgive him and save him. It's about God's Salvation, not simply an idea like death of one's flesh body and where they go after flesh death.

The Job 14 passage is not a support for the 'dead in the ground' theory of men. Just as the rich man of Luke 16 asked Abraham to send someone to his brethren on earth to warn them about that place, no contact was allowed. That still did not mean the rich man was not aware of the place of separation in the heavenly where he was tormented.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

If Jesus sit on the right hand of God and God throne is in the heavens is there not at least one person in heaven?

 

[Hezekiah]

Veteran, I said you wouldn't accept even the Christ's own words. The problem is that you're relying on parabbles and visions to support your dogma.

Yes indeed, I believe the Christ. Elijaha was removed from the scene to keep the king from killing him. I believe he was taken to Mount Saini. Ifyou'd rather disavow the Christ's own words that no one except He himself had ever ascended to heaven, then please explain to me how Elijaha sent a letter to the king a full ten years after the episode where he was taken away.

Lazaras and the Rich Man is a parabble and was never meant to indicate that anyone had ever gone to heaven. The Sadduces (to whom Christ was talking) did not believe in the resurrection. This was a warning to the jews. Abraham is dead and in his grave awaiting the resurrection just as is David.

The picture on the mound of Transfiguration was a vision. It was not real either. The souls under the alter in Revelation are merely speaking of the saints who have been killed for Christ. It is not real either.

Believe the Christ's own words - not parabbles and visions not meant or intended to prove what you want them to prove.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

If Jesus sit on the right hand of God and God throne is in the heavens is there not at least one person in heaven?

Heaven is Gods throne. Christ is God and God is Spirit so yes there is one Spirit there. No need for any flesh in heaven. But God can walk out of heaven as who ever He chooses And still remain there.






.

 

[veteran]

Veteran, I said you wouldn't accept even the Christ's own words. The problem is that you're relying on parabbles and visions to support your dogma.

Yes indeed, I believe the Christ. Elijaha was removed from the scene to keep the king from killing him. I believe he was taken to Mount Saini. Ifyou'd rather disavow the Christ's own words that no one except He himself had ever ascended to heaven, then please explain to me how Elijaha sent a letter to the king a full ten years after the episode where he was taken away.

Lazaras and the Rich Man is a parabble and was never meant to indicate that anyone had ever gone to heaven. The Sadduces (to whom Christ was talking) did not believe in the resurrection. This was a warning to the jews. Abraham is dead and in his grave awaiting the resurrection just as is David.

The picture on the mound of Transfiguration was a vision. It was not real either. The souls under the alter in Revelation are merely speaking of the saints who have been killed for Christ. It is not real either.

Believe the Christ's own words - not parabbles and visions not meant or intended to prove what you want them to prove.

then you are a Sadduccee then, because like you said, they refused to believe any idea of a resurrection.

No Biblical evidence that Elijah sent his letter after his ascension. That's a dream some like to make up.

 

[williemac]

Veteran, I said you wouldn't accept even the Christ's own words. The problem is that you're relying on parabbles and visions to support your dogma.

Yes indeed, I believe the Christ. Elijaha was removed from the scene to keep the king from killing him. I believe he was taken to Mount Saini. Ifyou'd rather disavow the Christ's own words that no one except He himself had ever ascended to heaven, then please explain to me how Elijaha sent a letter to the king a full ten years after the episode where he was taken away.

Lazaras and the Rich Man is a parabble and was never meant to indicate that anyone had ever gone to heaven. The Sadduces (to whom Christ was talking) did not believe in the resurrection. This was a warning to the jews. Abraham is dead and in his grave awaiting the resurrection just as is David.

The picture on the mound of Transfiguration was a vision. It was not real either. The souls under the alter in Revelation are merely speaking of the saints who have been killed for Christ. It is not real either.

Believe the Christ's own words - not parabbles and visions not meant or intended to prove what you want them to prove.

I have to respond to this reply. If you understand anything about parables, you will note that they are stories about familiar things with the purpose of explaining the unfamiliar. They use the tool of camparison. Where is this tool found in the story of the rich man and Lazerus? If your observation is corrrect, where is the familiar that gives us insight into the unfamiliar? If Jesus was merely inventing an impossible scenario to make a point, then He did not follow any rule of thumb or pattern that could connect this with any other parable. It seems a mere matter of convenience to write it off by calling it a parable. But it is not a well thought out or well studied effort on your part.
Furthermore, what is the basis of your conclusion concerning the Mount of Transfiguration? Or the souls under the alter, for that matter? They seem to be simply convenient conclusions to your mind which is made up already. But have you ever addressed the passage concerning the "absence from the body" (2Cor.5:8)? If I am absent from a room, I am not in the room. The meaning of the word is clear.

In 2Cor.5, Paul is speaking of the body being destroyed (dead), but another body being available in this case. The body is described as a tent, a building that is lived in. It is a vessel that connects us with the world in which we live. But it is not who we are. We are a soul. Jesus, in Math.10:28, in no uncertain terms said that it is possible for the body to die but not the soul.
But inthe same verse, He describes a situation where both are destroyed in the Lake of fire (Gehenna). Until that time, in the case of the damned, there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Teeth? It would seem that the spiritual body is somewhat similar to the physical one.

For the sake of the subject of the resurrection, I would like to suggest that one examines the scripture. It is not about being made alive again. It is about coming back to this realm in a new body. This is what Jesus experienced. But His soul was in Hades (the place of the dead) until then. His soul was not dead. They killed His body but not His soul, as He described in Math.10:28.

As for Paridise not being in heaven (for those who say so)....who cares? They are nonetheless, present with the Lord. That is all that matters.

 

[Questor]

-- If you wish to be exact, it was nowhere near three and a half days.
He died Friday afternoon. He emerged Sunday morning (the day after the Jeweish Sabbath)
"After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb." - Matt. 28:1
It was three calendar days, but Friday afternoon (Crucifixion) to Sunday morning (Resurrection) isn't even 72 hours.





Actually, if you check the calender, and follow the steps of Yeshua closely, you would find that it is indeed over 3 days in the grave.

But I use a calender showing Yeshua born in 6 BC, and dying in 30 BC, in which the days are as follows:

Saturday Daylight, the 10th of Nissan Yeshua enters into Jerusalem on a donkey.
Called Sunday in the West
Tuesday Evening, the 13th of Nissan The Last Supper, Yeshua's arrest
Called Wednesday in the West
Tuesday Afternoon, the 13th of Nissan Yeshua is crucified to death on Preparation day at 3:00 pm, the time of Passover
Called Wednesday in the west sacrifices, exactly midway though the Shabbat to Shabbat week, in accordance with
Passover customs in the Tanahk.

Wednesday Evening the 14th of Nissan Passover Begins
Called Thursday Morning in the West Yeshua's body is in the tomb
Yeshua's spirit is in Paradise, under the Throne of Heaven as pictured
in Revelation
Sunday Morning,, the 18th of nissan Yeshua rises ( (a little over 3 days in the grave)
. Called Saturday Evening in the West

Sunday Daylight the 18th of nissan The tomb is found empty at daybreak
Called Sunday morning in the West

The reason for the years used are a long study..the summation is the conjunction/comet of the stars that the Mages followed began in 6 BC, and was again over Bethleham in 4 BC, and 30 AD for Yeshua's death matches the 40 year dying of the Temple from Christ's death until Jerusalem's destruction in AD 70,

It also follows the exact sequence of the 8 day feast of unleavened bread that began at Yeshua's last Supper,
and the complete offering schedule of the Temple at Passover


Sorry...a pet peeve of mine


Q

 

[Hezekiah]

I have to respond to this reply. If you understand anything about parables, you will note that they are stories about familiar things with the purpose of explaining the unfamiliar. They use the tool of camparison. Where is this tool found in the story of the rich man and Lazerus? If your observation is corrrect, where is the familiar that gives us insight into the unfamiliar? If Jesus was merely inventing an impossible scenario to make a point, then He did not follow any rule of thumb or pattern that could connect this with any other parable. It seems a mere matter of convenience to write it off by calling it a parable. But it is not a well thought out or well studied effort on your part.
Furthermore, what is the basis of your conclusion concerning the Mount of Transfiguration? Or the souls under the alter, for that matter? They seem to be simply convenient conclusions to your mind which is made up already. But have you ever addressed the passage concerning the "absence from the body" (2Cor.5:8)? If I am absent from a room, I am not in the room. The meaning of the word is clear.

In 2Cor.5, Paul is speaking of the body being destroyed (dead), but another body being available in this case. The body is described as a tent, a building that is lived in. It is a vessel that connects us with the world in which we live. But it is not who we are. We are a soul. Jesus, in Math.10:28, in no uncertain terms said that it is possible for the body to die but not the soul.
But inthe same verse, He describes a situation where both are destroyed in the Lake of fire (Gehenna). Until that time, in the case of the damned, there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Teeth? It would seem that the spiritual body is somewhat similar to the physical one.

For the sake of the subject of the resurrection, I would like to suggest that one examines the scripture. It is not about being made alive again. It is about coming back to this realm in a new body. This is what Jesus experienced. But His soul was in Hades (the place of the dead) until then. His soul was not dead. They killed His body but not His soul, as He described in Math.10:28.

As for Paridise not being in heaven (for those who say so)....who cares? They are nonetheless, present with the Lord. That is all that matters.

If you were to take the time to go back and read then you would find that Lazarus and rthe rich man are just one in a string of parabbles Christ spoke on. You do have to go back a piece to find where they start.

What you are trying to say is not in the Bible. Paul never said "to be absent from the body is to be with Christ. Read the scripture. It is a compund sentence expressing two seperate thoughts. Paul told you elsewhere when we would gather back to the Christ. He said it would happen at the Second Advent. Please read your Bible.

 

[veteran]

If you were to take the time to go back and read then you would find that Lazarus and rthe rich man are just one in a string of parabbles Christ spoke on. You do have to go back a piece to find where they start.

What you are trying to say is not in the Bible. Paul never said "to be absent from the body is to be with Christ. Read the scripture. It is a compund sentence expressing two seperate thoughts. Paul told you elsewhere when we would gather back to the Christ. He said it would happen at the Second Advent. Please read your Bible.

It's obvious that 'some' come here to deny what God's Word actually says, and you are one of them.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

It's obvious that 'some' come here to deny what God's Word actually says, and you are one of them.

To know and not do it is greater sin. You would have to know what God's word actually says.

 

[Hezekiah]

Perhaps some actually read what the scriptures actually do say and do not attempt to make them say what they don't say.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

Perhaps some actually read what the scriptures actually do say and do not attempt to make them say what they don't say.

Amen to that.

 

[veteran]

To know and not do it is greater sin. You would have to know what God's word actually says.

It's not difficult at all to catch people like you and so-called hezekiah twisting the Scriptures to fit your little games.