No-one has gone to heaven?

[marks]

THIS IS JUST UNADULTERATED NONSENSE. Almost all the false teachers (and many uniformed Christians) misinterpret John 3:13.

So you need to decide if you really want the truth, or are you here just to promote false teachings and lies?

My understanding is that as this is an active voice verb, the meaning is that no one has ascended into heaven on their own. But I don't see how it says that no one has been brought into heaven, do you?

Much love!

 

[Earburner]

1. The saints of Matthew 27 were people who had heard Jesus and had been killed for being Christian.
They like Lazarus and the others that Jesus, the apostles and the prophets raised, had all died and been raised to life AS WITNESSES LIKE JESUS himself to the power and promise of Resurrection. It is logical to believe that all of them lived on until dying natural deaths.
2. We are not told of their ultimate end but GOD being GOD will have no difficulty in resurrecting them when Jesus returns or on Judgment Day.
3. That thief on the cross will also be raised up but is presently in his grave.
4. The saints had obviously not gone to heaven at death as Jesus said no-one but himself had done.
David and all others except possible Enoch and Elijah are still in their graves.

5. Don't get caught up in unprofitable nit-picking.
Paul told Timothy: 1:3 3s I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith.

1. There were no christian saints (martyrs), until after Pentecost! Therefore the saints that arose from their graves AFTER His Resurrection, could be as you say, those who had recently died, but restored back to this life again, being an act of God providing witness to Jesus, that God Himself was doing the works of those miracles, thus fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel 12
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
*(a)some to everlasting life, and
*(b) some to shame and everlasting contempt.
a. Arose from death, to having belief in Jesus.
b. Arose from death, to having unbelief in Jesus.
See John 3:18 for the full understanding about belief and unbelief in Jesus.

2. Yes, we do not know all the details of those that arose after His Resurrection, but if it be that they continued to live on in their natural flesh, the some were believers in Jesus, and others were not.
Those who did believe, have eternal life, whereas those who were not believers, remained in their "contempt", of being "condemned already".
1 John 5:13.

3. I tend to agree.

4. In light of Daniel 12:2, I agree. It was necessary that prophecy needed to be fulfilled, of which truly has been, and we are not to connect it to the Glorious return of Jesus, and our bodily resurrection into the likeness of His Immortality.

5. I for one am not caught up in any myths or otherwise. By His Holy Spirit, I am always eager to hear and learn of His Truth, and am always willing to trash that which is contrary, even that of my own mind. Isaiah 55:8-9.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Read Luke 16.

 

[Earburner]

you make sense. But it leaves me with questions then. Heard a song yesterday “you called me out of the grave by name” is that false then? Have none so far then, heard His voice and been called out of the grave into Life? He said in the OT the grave cannot praise you Oh God. Always took that as those called out from the grave can praise, the deliverance from the removal of their grave clothes. You spoke of to rise in Him. So I have questions concerning Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

For the fall...yes. can see this fall.
And rising again of many. Have I understood you correctly: No rising again of many? Another question would be concerning those who came out of the graves and were seen of many?

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Its not in anything of rising or falling, but rather those who did rise from their physical graves after Jesus Resurrection, being them who had died during His Ministry, but were miraculously restored back to their natural life by God, as a witness to Jesus, being God in the flesh.

Some were believers prior to their death, or then became believers in Jesus after they were restored back to their natural lives. 1 John 5:13. John 3:18.
However, for the others who were not believers, and refused to be believers afterwards, they remained as "condemned already". John 3:18.
All of that was to fulfill Daniel 12:2.

 

[Waiting on him]

fwiw Lazarus is another way to say Eleazer

Interesting...... the comforter.

 

[Waiting on him]

VictoryinJesus said:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The Jews lost the opportunity to bear God’s name. Jesus Christ said to the Jewish chief priests and older men of influence: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt. 21:23-43) In agreement with this, the message of God’s kingdom with the privilege of becoming Christians was extended to the non-Jewish peoples, the Gentiles, even thirty-four years before Jerusalem, the Jewish capital, was destroyed by the Romans. The Jewish Christian apostle Symeon Peter was used to extend this favor to them.

What obligation did this lay upon those Gentile believers? The Jewish Christian disciple James pointed out that obligation when he said to a Christian religious investigation body at Jerusalem: “Brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah.’”—Acts 15:13-18.

True Christians are therefore under the obligation to bear God’s name or be called by God’s name, that is, to be called the people of Jehovah, God’s people. So
within you.

I don't make a mockery of Christianity, I just don't agree with immitation Christianity, which is what someone is teaching, preaching and spreading that believes Jesus Christ to be God instead of The Only Begotten Son of God as the scriptures say he is. Those who don't love the True God Jehovah enough to have faith that Jehovah has the authority to make all things subject to his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that Jehovah God has given his Only Begotten Son the authority to judge and forgive and that the only one not subject to The Only Begotten Son of Jehovah God is The True God Jehovah himself who is the Father and God of Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]


Psalm 138:2 KJV
[2] I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Barney, can you say Jesus is Lord?
Tecarta Bible

 

[Earburner]

Read Luke 16.

And of that entire fictional story of the rich man and Lazaruth, the ONLY truth to be learned is verses 30-31.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[bbyrd009]

Interesting...... the comforter.

hmm, from what source? im getting "whom Yah helps, Yah has helped" from most etymologies?
Isnt "comforter" a diff name? maybe not, dunno

the rich man and lazarus (not "lazarus and the rich man," per convention) is a great story about historical events i guess, and the current locals would have got who "the rich man and lazarus" were immediately; although the Romans would not have, apparently. And the lack of observance of syntax convention i guess makes a neat little joke, too, to help make the point.

 

[Waiting on him]

hmm, from what source? im getting "whom Yah helps, Yah has helped" from most etymologies?
Isnt "comforter" a diff name? maybe not, dunno

the rich man and lazarus (not "lazarus and the rich man," per convention) is a great story about historical events i guess, and the current locals would have got who "the rich man and lazarus" were immediately; although the Romans would not have, apparently. And the lack of observance of syntax convention i guess makes a neat little joke, too, to help make the point.

Abraham’s servant of old. Helpmeet/comforter, same
To me.

 

[bbyrd009]

Abraham’s servant of old. Helpmeet/comforter, same
To me.

so, maybe even more indicative of the Spirit, rather than Christ
maybe?
for Eleazer, right;
"Lazarus" would be a diff iteration, not sure what that meant to the contemporaries though

 

[Waiting on him]

so, maybe even more indicative of the Spirit, rather than Christ
maybe?
for Eleazer, right;
"Lazarus" would be a diff iteration, not sure what that meant to the contemporaries though

Hebrew: אליעזר
Transliteration: 'ĕlîy‛ezer
Pronunciation: el-ee-eh'-zer
Definition: From H410 and H5828; God of help;
{Eliezer} the name of a Damascene and of ten Israelites: - Eliezer.

 

[Earburner]

Hebrew: אליעזר
Transliteration: 'ĕlîy‛ezer
Pronunciation: el-ee-eh'-zer
Definition: From H410 and H5828; God of help;
{Eliezer} the name of a Damascene and of ten Israelites: - Eliezer.

You are just splitting hairs trying make something fictional to happen.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hebrew: אליעזר
Transliteration: 'ĕlîy‛ezer
Pronunciation: el-ee-eh'-zer
Definition: From H410 and H5828; God of help;
{Eliezer} the name of a Damascene and of ten Israelites: - Eliezer.

i guess there is maybe even some significance in the diff in spellings of Eleazer, which might have been heard like we hear a diff in Mike and Mikey or Michael; characterizations, iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Lazarus" would be a diff iteration, not sure what that meant to the contemporaries though

lazarus was a "greek" way to say eleazer, i think
or maybe roman, i forget

 

[Waiting on him]

lazarus was a "greek" way to say eleazer, i think
or maybe roman, i forget

TYPOLOGY OF THE UNNAMED SERVANT & THE HOLY SPIRIT

• Typology Charts

The Fathers of the Church saw the Unnamed Servant as a symbolic "type" of God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only person of the Holy Trinity who does not have a personal name. Compare the major players in this narrative with the Most Holy Trinity and the Church:

Just Father Abraham Yahweh, God the Father
Righteous Son Isaac Jesus the Son
Servant Unnamed Servant Holy Spirit
The Bride Rebecca The Church
Question: "The Unnamed Servant" is a name that the Fathers of the Church used for God the Holy Spirit. WHY? What is his mission in the New Covenant?
Answer: He is the only person of the Trinity not to have a personal name. It is His mission to bring the "Bride"= the Church, to the Bridegroom = Christ! "However, when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth..." John 16:13 [also see John 14:26; 15:26].

I believe the whole plan of redemption is right there in Genesis. If you back up you’ll see Eliezer is Abraham’s servant which is qualifying Rebecca by the well.

I had no idea the name Lazarus meat this

Thanks for sharing.

PS: I even believe the mount Abraham and Isaac climbed was Golgotha, maybe just splitting hares

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its not in anything of rising or falling, but rather those who did rise from their physical graves after Jesus Resurrection, being them who had died during His Ministry, but were miraculously restored back to their natural life by God, as a witness to Jesus, being God in the flesh.

you said “it’s not in anything of rising or falling, but rather those who did rise from their physical graves after Jesus Resurrection.” What of the working of the sword? Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
^For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

James 4:9-10 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (When,where,how?)

Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 3:5-6 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; [6] And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe the whole plan of redemption is right there in Genesis. If you back up you’ll see Eliezer is Abraham’s servant which is qualifying Rebecca by the well.

ah, ya, that one. Spelled diff later though, forget the reasoning there too

 

[Renniks]

And of that entire fictional story of the rich man and Lazaruth, the ONLY truth to be learned is verses 30-31.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

First, we don't know if it's fiction. Second, why would Jesus deliberately create a false idea of what heaven and hell are? That's absurd.

 

[bbyrd009]

what comes from taking a parable literally imo
google knows who the rich man and lazarus are

the mount Abraham and Isaac climbed

ah, not Moriah?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

thank you for taking the time to reply. I still struggle with all the back and forth of what others believe and how it fits with my own. Mostly what exactly is His plan for the Jews born not of the promise but remain still in unbelief. Often have heard we gentiles are adopted which is far different than the plans God had for the Jews. Also have heard the gentiles are not and were never under the law but under grace. My head spins with all the different ideas on restoration and rebuilding what has been wasted (torn down). I see a Jew differently one being outward and perishing, one inward and renewed(restored) build up of God. Not sure how adoption and under the law becomes so divided when called into One body: Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.[/QUOTE]

Well, if you remember the scriptures talking of the faith of Abraham you understand that those people who exercise that faith like Abraham is the kind of people The True God has always been looking for. These people are the uncircumcised and circumcised. You see Abraham exercised the kind of faith The True God was looking for and Abraham exercised this kind of faith while in his uncircumcised state, then God commanded Abraham to circumcise all the males in his family and among his servants as a sign of the faith he exercised in his uncircumcised state. So you see God was always looking for those people who exercised the faith of Abraham whether they be gentile or Jew. Many Jews in that nation of Israel were not those who exercised the same faith of Abraham so we're not the true Jews that God was looking for even though they were in that nation called Israel and they were circumcised. The True Jew or the True christian has always been about love. Love for God first, meaning having so much love for The True God that you know or have faith that he knows what's in his creations best interests or not in it's best interests.