The issue with Abraham and Sarah wasn't about whether Abraham lied...it was that he showed a lack of trust in his God. He acted out of fear. There are lessons there for us today in cases when out of fear, embarrassment, we 'fudge' the truth and/or sometimes deny our faith altogether, or on other occasions deliberately allow an opportunity to pass by to witness to what God has done for us. Abraham lost that opportunity to testify to kings concerning the one true God. He blew it. Through his fear and subsequent lie, he created a atmosphere where the king ceased to trust Abraham. Everything we do has consequences...sometimes eternal ones.
No other President of the USA has gotten such acclaim by so many
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Where does it say he gave her away? Nowhere.
You would've rather him to be killed and her to be taken anyway?
It was a strange story and Abraham handled it wrong.
But the Pharaoh was not innocent either. He forcibly took her from Abraham and paid him for her, which did not make it right.
This is one screwed up happening which I do not believe anyone could predict what would happen. Not saying that to defend anyone.
Including Sarah being quiet and just letting it all go down anyway.
The same Sarah who gave Abraham slave to impregnate.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Thank you. This whole stupid, juvenile exchange was begun because I pointed out the poor character demonstrated by many leaders in the Bible.... and was told Abraham was not among them.
I guess appointed leaders did not start with Israel and they were supposed to be different, but wanted a king. But I still think of God as my king. I am not from this world. My citizenship is in Heaven.
Abortion was definitely one of my thoughts in voting for President Trump. The border wall was also, especially after 9/11. I think quite a few realized how lax our security had gotten. I go back and forth on this when I see families trying to get asylum, but one of the biggest drug busts was made recently... Definitely some eyes have been awakened and things are finally getting looked at. I am praying it isn't too late...and I don't think one leader or person can be responsible for if America goes down. Because division and hate is the greatest destructive force. And there is so much of that right now.
I believe that the following scripture is appropo:
Isa 33:6, And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.
Because the fact that everything we do has consequences is an eternal truth. And everything that is not of faith is a sin. Abraham showed no faith, and therefore sinned. His lie was merely the natural fruit of unbelief. I thought everyone knew that. No big deal... just a fact of our walk with God...OT or NT.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The problem with what you're saying is Abraham predated Israel. There were no written Scriptures to study to study so a lot of the knowledge you are assuming had not been revealed yet.
So when you say everybody knew that you just simply wrong.
People today can study the scriptures and see how the OT saints and their lives are written as our examples. It is revealed to us today...revelation that I thought everyone knew. What did I say that isn't obvious to anyone reading about Abraham?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
But you attacked Abraham.
It is one thing to look into history and learn lessons. Is something very different to judge history in today's terms.
How? By implying he was as human as we are and just as susceptible to mistakes and screwing up? Then, okay, I was attacking Abraham...but not by saying anything that the scriptures hadn't already revealed about him.
It isn't as if Abraham didn't have an issue sometimes in trusting God...he, like the rest of us, felt he needed to give God a hand at times...he, again like us, needed to learn his lessons. He didn't become an instant saint the moment he left Babylon, he was a work in progress and along the way needed God's patience and forbearance as much as the rest of us. Not attacking, just being honest. Abraham was a hero of faith...but it didn't come overnight.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Abraham was called out of Ur in Chaldea, not Babylon, because he was a righteous man.
Saint simply means one set apart for God. God set him apart when he called them out of Ur. So your definition of Saint is obviously not biblical.
Rom 4:16, Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18, Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19, And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:17, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18, Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19, And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Amen.
A major aspect of the purpose of God for our lives is that we should be made holy, do you not agree?
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