No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

[Timtofly]

No failure whatsoever, the Antichrist, 3.5 year tribulation, and mark of (The Beast) are "future" and the thousand years ends at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Now you claim the Second Coming is 1000 years after the 3.5 years of tribulation? Those resurrected were killed in these 3.5 years at the start of the 1000 years. They had to die future to live for a future 1000 years. What verse claims they reign 1000 years before they are resurrected? If they reign for 1000 years, they do not die either.

 

[David H.]

What when you are complete off target? You will never accept that, it seems, and you just keep doubling down on the same error.

That is Known as iron sharpening iron. In Other words, what I am saying is right on target, and your responses prove this. Conviction is hard to receive, Believe me, i understand, But when you do hear what the Spirit is saying you will benefit in the Long run.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. ( Galatians 5:25)

To Live is one thing to walk is another. Until you see this, yes I am on target.....

 

[marks]

To Live is one thing to walk is another. Until you see this, yes I am on target.....

Friend, I saw this a long long time ago.

This issue here is . . . I didn't buy into your "everyone is Laodicean", and ever since, you've continued to insist I'm spiritually deficient, and you are the one fit to say so, and to tell me how, and what I should do.

Because I dared disagree with something. So now, all you can seem to say is I'm all theory and no practice. And apparently nothing is going to crack open that shell.

But I've likewise seen you do the same with others, so I realize it's not personal, it's just your thing apparently.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

Can you find the humans Satan decieves? Can you find the earthly kingdom and throne this motley crew marches against?

 

[Truth7t7]

Now you claim the Second Coming is 1000 years after the 3.5 years of tribulation? Those resurrected were killed in these 3.5 years at the start of the 1000 years. They had to die future to live for a future 1000 years. What verse claims they reign 1000 years before they are resurrected? If they reign for 1000 years, they do not die either.

The Antichrist, 3.5 year tribulation, and mark of (The Beast) are "future" events unfulfilled

The Non-Literal thousand years ends at the second coming of Jesus Christ, immediately after the tribulation

 

[Truth7t7]

Can you find the humans Satan decieves? Can you find the earthly kingdom and throne this motley crew marches against?

Motley Crew?

A Rock Band In The 80's

 

[Timtofly]

Motley Crew?

A Rock Band In The 80's

"made up of many different people"

So where? You did not answer the question. The 80's group is a different spelling.

 

[David H.]

Friend, I saw this a long long time ago.

This issue here is . . . I didn't buy into your "everyone is Laodicean", and ever since, you've continued to insist I'm spiritually deficient, and you are the one fit to say so, and to tell me how, and what I should do.

Because I dared disagree with something. So now, all you can seem to say is I'm all theory and no practice. And apparently nothing is going to crack open that shell.

But I've likewise seen you do the same with others, so I realize it's not personal, it's just your thing apparently.

Yet You still deny the latter rain.... You see those who are walking in the Spirit Know all things are possible with God. They see the riches of His grace and the Gifts he has yet to bestow upon His sons and daughters Instead of resisting these moves of The Spirit. AKA Quenching the Spirit.

As I said with Michael here I expect opposition to the Laodicean idea, Because it takes a transformed heart to even be able to receive this message. A Heart that can say "yes I am a part of the least of the churches" As opposed to the proud heart that assumes the best seat at the banquet.... In fact that parable has direct implications to what I am teaching. Let us look at that parable, shall we?

7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, 8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; 9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. 10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. 11. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 14:7-11)

You see it is with this attitude we all must come to approach the wedding, Taking the Lowest seat which is why I claim to be a Laodicean. It is this attitude we all must have to receive that final outpouring and be called to be saints. It is not about me being right but about us getting it right, the right attitude, the right perspective, the right heart, the faith of a child.

So whether you agree with me or not on the concept of we are all Laodiceans or do not does not matters so much as the attitude with which you reject this notion. All You are doing in fact is beating Balaam's Donkey; Yet he remains stubborn for he sees the sword of the LORD drawn in your path.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yet You still deny the latter rain.... You see those who are walking in the Spirit Know all things are possible with God. They see the riches of His grace and the Gifts he has yet to bestow upon His sons and daughters Instead of resisting these moves of The Spirit. AKA Quenching the Spirit.

As I said with Michael here I expect opposition to the Laodicean idea, Because it takes a transformed heart to even be able to receive this message. A Heart that can say "yes I am a part of the least of the churches" As opposed to the proud heart that assumes the best seat at the banquet.... In fact that parable has direct implications to what I am teaching. Let us look at that parable, shall we?

7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, 8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; 9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. 10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. 11. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 14:7-11)

You see it is with this attitude we all must come to approach the wedding, Taking the Lowest seat which is why I claim to be a Laodicean. It is this attitude we all must have to receive that final outpouring and be called to be saints. It is not about me being right but about us getting it right, the right attitude, the right perspective, the right heart, the faith of a child.

So whether you agree with me or not on the concept of we are all Laodiceans or do not does not matters so much as the attitude with which you reject this notion. All You are doing in fact is beating Balaam's Donkey; Yet he remains stubborn for he sees the sword of the LORD drawn in your path.

Your looking for a physical Jesus to return to Jerusalem, starting a Millennium on this earth, in complete disregard of the Lords warning below

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all be on gaurd , for the spirit of anti christ is fast swelling and leading many astray .
Hope not in this world . HOPE IN GOD .

 

[teamventure]

Yet You still deny the latter rain..

There is the latter rain, than there is whatever people call latter rain but is not.

 

[David H.]

There is the latter rain, than there is whatever people call latter rain but is not.

Very true, as Satan always mimics the things of God. But Just because Satan is promoting a false ecumenical movement does not mean we should not speak of the unity of the Spirit, In fact we should speak more so of what the true unity of the Spirit Looks like so we can thereby expose the false to more people. The same for the Latter rain.

 

[Taken]

No, tribulation is all about the judgment of all flesh as was the flood (and about salvation).

Eh, not entirely.

The book of the Revelation talks about a whole lot of saints that come out of the tribulation, not just 144 thousand.

Yes There will be many who "become" Saved "during" the Tribulation.
I hadn't mentioned the 144,000.

13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:13-14
If you read the entire chapter you'll see that this verse applies to the 144 thousand from the twelve tribes and a great multitude beyond counting from every nation on Earth.

No. Rev 7:14, is not about the 144,000.
The 144,000 ARE expressly 12,000 of each of the 12 Tribes, ALREADY SAVED, and set aside
(REV 14:4) expressly to appear ON EARTH to Preach to the men (of the 12 Tribes), who have run for the hills, (escaping the threats of Satan's Army).
They are Gods "ISRAEL/People". People who have kept faith IN God, and must Hear, the True Preaching of their Christ Messiah, Lord Jesus, (which has been silenced, in their teaching for 2,000 years). It is their Opportunity (not Judgement), to Hear the Truth of Christ Jesus, Taught, BY their OWN Tribesmen, (not Christians, not their forefathers, not other gods, not the World).
* It is expressly, God giving Opportunity to His People (Israel/ not the "country", the People, Gods Elect, for their Salvation to be given, as God Promised.)
* They Hear, the Truth of Jesus.
* They Accept, the Truth of Jesus from their OWN Tribesmen.
* They Believe, and Become Saved...THEN Bodily Killed, by Satan's Army. (Because once found, they REJECT Satan.)
Their Body's lay rotting, returning to Dust.
* Their Souls go to Heaven.
* They are them...WHO, in Rev 7:14 come out of the Tribulation... BEFORE Gods Wrath upon the Earth.

Is God pouring out His wrath upon people that He's saving through the gospel?

* There are THREE WRATHS revealed in Revelations.
* The Power to exercise Wrath upon the Earth affecting the People ON Earth (with duress), IS granted power, BY God, and orchestrated, BY God.

* The first Wrath is, the Wrath of the Lamb.
It is revealed, during the opening of the Seven Seals.
* Opportunity for Salvation of Gods People...
(Who are faithful to God, but have NOT, accepted Jesus), begins IN Jerusalem.
* Gods sends His TWO WITNESSES, to Preach the Truth of Christ Jesus. Many of Gods People, Hear, Accept, become Saved, become Killed.
(Their Saved "souls" wait, Rev 6: 9,10,11) for other Tribesmen, which occurs, (during the Trumps, and Wrath of the Devil) after the Preaching of the 144,000 in the hills).
* After the other Tribesmen are Saved, All the Saved souls of Gods People (Israel), and their body's remain dead on Earth, returning to dust.
* It is Gods People Israel, whose Souls are Saved After Hearing Preaching:
Of Gods 2 witnesses in Jerusalem (the Jews),
And of the Preaching of Gods 144,000 to all the Tribes in the hills.

Do you see the illogic in that?

No. Because you have God People (Israel), experiencing Gods Wrath, which is False.
* The Lambs Wrath, is for men having Rejected Jesus. (Seals)
* The Devils Wrath, is for men having come into accepting Jesus, and Rejecting Satan.
* AFTER...Gods People (Israel) who have remained Faithful to God "AND" have Accepted Jesus...become Saved, and their souls having come out of the Tribulation, and risen to Heaven....
* One last effort IS then Preached to the entire World, (now left, primarily Gentiles), during the Trumps....
Preaching...BY an Angel of God.
[Rev 14:6]
Preaching...God and His Christ Messiah Jesus.
Last Opportunity...for the whole world...
Accept or Reject.

* THEN follows the Wrath of God, (the Bowls/ Vials) poured upon the Earth, and the Remaning people on Earth who have Rejected God and His Christ Messiah.
* As in Noah's Day, God destroys their Body's with the Earth. Gen 6:13

Revelations is a recap of sorts that reveals Gods created and made Angels and Mankind and relationship WITH or rejection OF God, and of God AND His Christ....
AND
Who, What, When, Why, Where....their Consequence and requires an intense deep study, to properly put into persepective, regarding each.

The Rapture, is expressly, pertaining to mankind, WHO HAS ALREADY, Accepted Absolute Faithfulness TO GOD AND HIS CHRIST JESUS, ALREADY SEALED unto the Lord God Almighty....
* and NOT APPOINTED, SUBJECT TO WRATH...
Not the Lambs Wrath,
Not the Devils Wrath,
Not Gods Wrath.
(Which ALL those Wraths OCCUR DURING the Tribulation.)

As in Noah's DAY, "they are risen UP above the Earth" while the Earth is being Destroyed.


This is only a brief, much more in details is revealed IN Scripture. And the Understanding thereof, per usual, is according to Gods Understanding, WHICH is freely given to the Converted, who Seek Gods Understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

Before the end comes, you will see many watchmen come and many will be rejected and mocked for doing so. Some will be heard, and then the judgment on them averted, Most will react like Balaam did and beat his donkey. We who are called to be watchmen know this and expect this and are prepared for this.

We have no prophets now. Psalms 74:9-11
ALL those who purport to be prophets of world events, are fakes and have often been proved to be fakes.
There are a few who can prophesy over individuals.

What our task, as studiers of the Prophetic Word, is as a messenger and and we must be careful to promote only what the Bible prophets said.
I do this and yes; I get vilified and ignored, just as the ancient prophets were.

 

[Taken]

No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming
OP ^

Disagree in part.

Yes, Christ's Church..(i.e. Converted), shall be risen up off the face of the Earth, Before the end of days (as we know them), shall commence during the days of Tribulation upon the Earth.

They (the Converted), have no appointment with being subject to the end of days (as we know them), Tribulation, or Wrath, or Dastardly Consequences thereof.

Inasmuch as God in Heaven, the Lord in Heaven, the Saints in Heaven, WILL SEE the Destruction on Earth...so also will, the Converted in the clouds, SEE what is happening ON EARTH....during the Tribulation and Wrath and Destruction upon the Earth.

After the Wrath...
the Seals, (during the Lambs Wrath)
the Trumps, (during the Devils Wrath)
the Bowls/Vials, (during Gods Wrath)...

Satan and demonic angels are bound in Hell for 1,000 years.
The present humans, marked with allegience to Satan, shall all be bodily dead, and their souls confined to hell for 1,000 years, awaiting judgement.

The Christ's Kingdom shall be manifested ON Earth, accompanied, with Saints from Heaven and Christ's Church... with Mortals being born, living, dying, hearing, learning, accepting or rejecting God and Christ Jesus....
(Per the space time of 1,000 years).

* At the END of the 1,000 years...
IS WHEN, He who Came to Earth from Heaven, He who Returned to Heaven from Earth...and is He who SHALL return to Earth...IS HE called "the Son of Man", who shall descend from Heaven and BE SEEN, BY EVERY EYE, "in Heaven, on Earth, in the earth"!

Some shall mourn, some shall wail (in distress), Some shall be joyous...
ALL creatures in heaven, on the earth, in the earth shall bend, bow, worship Him...fulfilling prophecy.

* AND THEN...the Books are Opened....and JUDGEMENT pronounced.

* AND THEN...the SENTENCE of the JUDGEMENT carried out.

* AND THEN...shall the NEW Heavens and NEW Earth and NEW Jerusalem and everlasting Kingdom ON Earth be revealed ON Earth...AND ON Earth as it IS IN Heaven be manifested, WITHOUT a "heaven/earth", barrier division (as is presently now).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truth7t7]

Eh, not entirely.



Yes There will be many who "become" Saved "during" the Tribulation.
I hadn't mentioned the 144,000.



No. Rev 7:14, is not about the 144,000.
The 144,000 ARE expressly 12,000 of each of the 12 Tribes, ALREADY SAVED, and set aside
(REV 14:4) expressly to appear ON EARTH to Preach to the men (of the 12 Tribes), who have run for the hills, (escaping the threats of Satan's Army).
They are Gods "ISRAEL/People". People who have kept faith IN God, and must Hear, the True Preaching of their Christ Messiah, Lord Jesus, (which has been silenced, in their teaching for 2,000 years). It is their Opportunity (not Judgement), to Hear the Truth of Christ Jesus, Taught, BY their OWN Tribesmen, (not Christians, not their forefathers, not other gods, not the World).
* It is expressly, God giving Opportunity to His People (Israel/ not the "country", the People, Gods Elect, for their Salvation to be given, as God Promised.)
* They Hear, the Truth of Jesus.
* They Accept, the Truth of Jesus from their OWN Tribesmen.
* They Believe, and Become Saved...THEN Bodily Killed, by Satan's Army. (Because once found, they REJECT Satan.)
Their Body's lay rotting, returning to Dust.
* Their Souls go to Heaven.
* They are them...WHO, in Rev 7:14 come out of the Tribulation... BEFORE Gods Wrath upon the Earth.



* There are THREE WRATHS revealed in Revelations.
* The Power to exercise Wrath upon the Earth affecting the People ON Earth (with duress), IS granted power, BY God, and orchestrated, BY God.

* The first Wrath is, the Wrath of the Lamb.
It is revealed, during the opening of the Seven Seals.
* Opportunity for Salvation of Gods People...
(Who are faithful to God, but have NOT, accepted Jesus), begins IN Jerusalem.
* Gods sends His TWO WITNESSES, to Preach the Truth of Christ Jesus. Many of Gods People, Hear, Accept, become Saved, become Killed.
(Their Saved "souls" wait, Rev 6: 9,10,11) for other Tribesmen, which occurs, (during the Trumps, and Wrath of the Devil) after the Preaching of the 144,000 in the hills).
* After the other Tribesmen are Saved, All the Saved souls of Gods People (Israel), and their body's remain dead on Earth, returning to dust.
* It is Gods People Israel, whose Souls are Saved After Hearing Preaching:
Of Gods 2 witnesses in Jerusalem (the Jews),
And of the Preaching of Gods 144,000 to all the Tribes in the hills.



No. Because you have God People (Israel), experiencing Gods Wrath, which is False.
* The Lambs Wrath, is for men having Rejected Jesus. (Seals)
* The Devils Wrath, is for men having come into accepting Jesus, and Rejecting Satan.
* AFTER...Gods People (Israel) who have remained Faithful to God "AND" have Accepted Jesus...become Saved, and their souls having come out of the Tribulation, and risen to Heaven....
* One last effort IS then Preached to the entire World, (now left, primarily Gentiles), during the Trumps....
Preaching...BY an Angel of God.
[Rev 14:6]
Preaching...God and His Christ Messiah Jesus.
Last Opportunity...for the whole world...
Accept or Reject.

* THEN follows the Wrath of God, (the Bowls/ Vials) poured upon the Earth, and the Remaning people on Earth who have Rejected God and His Christ Messiah.
* As in Noah's Day, God destroys their Body's with the Earth. Gen 6:13

Revelations is a recap of sorts that reveals Gods created and made Angels and Mankind and relationship WITH or rejection OF God, and of God AND His Christ....
AND
Who, What, When, Why, Where....their Consequence and requires an intense deep study, to properly put into persepective, regarding each.

The Rapture, is expressly, pertaining to mankind, WHO HAS ALREADY, Accepted Absolute Faithfulness TO GOD AND HIS CHRIST JESUS, ALREADY SEALED unto the Lord God Almighty....
* and NOT APPOINTED, SUBJECT TO WRATH...
Not the Lambs Wrath,
Not the Devils Wrath,
Not Gods Wrath.
(Which ALL those Wraths OCCUR DURING the Tribulation.)

As in Noah's DAY, "they are risen UP above the Earth" while the Earth is being Destroyed.


This is only a brief, much more in details is revealed IN Scripture. And the Understanding thereof, per usual, is according to Gods Understanding, WHICH is freely given to the Converted, who Seek Gods Understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

(There Will Be No Pre-Trib Rapture)

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming
OP ^

Disagree in part.

Yes, Christ's Church..(i.e. Converted), shall be risen up off the face of the Earth, Before the end of days (as we know them), shall commence during the days of Tribulation upon the Earth.

They (the Converted), have no appointment with being subject to the end of days (as we know them), Tribulation, or Wrath, or Dastardly Consequences thereof.

Inasmuch as God in Heaven, the Lord in Heaven, the Saints in Heaven, WILL SEE the Destruction on Earth...so also will, the Converted in the clouds, SEE what is happening ON EARTH....during the Tribulation and Wrath and Destruction upon the Earth.

After the Wrath...
the Seals, (during the Lambs Wrath)
the Trumps, (during the Devils Wrath)
the Bowls/Vials, (during Gods Wrath)...

Satan and demonic angels are bound in Hell for 1,000 years.
The present humans, marked with allegience to Satan, shall all be bodily dead, and their souls confined to hell for 1,000 years, awaiting judgement.

The Christ's Kingdom shall be manifested ON Earth, accompanied, with Saints from Heaven and Christ's Church... with Mortals being born, living, dying, hearing, learning, accepting or rejecting God and Christ Jesus....
(Per the space time of 1,000 years).

* At the END of the 1,000 years...
IS WHEN, He who Came to Earth from Heaven, He who Returned to Heaven from Earth...and is He who SHALL return to Earth...IS HE called "the Son of Man", who shall descend from Heaven and BE SEEN, BY EVERY EYE, "in Heaven, on Earth, in the earth"!

Some shall mourn, some shall wail (in distress), Some shall be joyous...
ALL creatures in heaven, on the earth, in the earth shall bend, bow, worship Him...fulfilling prophecy.

* AND THEN...the Books are Opened....and JUDGEMENT pronounced.

* AND THEN...the SENTENCE of the JUDGEMENT carried out.

* AND THEN...shall the NEW Heavens and NEW Earth and NEW Jerusalem and everlasting Kingdom ON Earth be revealed ON Earth...AND ON Earth as it IS IN Heaven be manifested, WITHOUT a "heaven/earth", barrier division (as is presently now).

Glory to God,
Taken

You Have A Huge Page Full Of Claims, And "Not One" Scripture For Support, "Not One"

 

[michaelvpardo]

I've lost the original quote, but this response is to "Taken" and not the posts that followed.

We have agreement on some things, but I don't believe that there are "3 wraths", though there may be 3 expressions of wrath. I also reject the notion that God has taught the saints two opposing views of His wrath or that only one view reveals who is genuinely "saved" ( that's a heresy called gnosticism or that there is "secret knowledge" required by God for our salvation.) This is why we want to compare scripture with scripture pertinent to the wrath of God, and to identify those people subject to condemnation.

 

[michaelvpardo]

We have no prophets now. Psalms 74:9-11
I do this and yes; I get vilified and ignored, just as the ancient prophets were.

If that's the case, then you're in excellent company with a promise of reward.

 

[marks]

( that's a heresy called gnosticism or that there is "secret knowledge" required by God for our salvation.)

Gnosticism is actually an ancient religion with it's own set of beliefs, that are NOT shared by @Taken .

Much love!