No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

[marks]

Yet You still deny the latter rain....

You have never shown it from the Bible. I mean, the "latter rain" is a farming term, not a spiritual term. I don't deny the latter rain. It comes most years.

You seem to have a stake in some supposed outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and I guess you figure it hasn't happened yet because you lack a sense of unity with other Christians. So you make it God's fault, He's not latter rained yet! So how CAN you share unity?

Please realize we ALREADY have the same Spirit, unifying us, unless you are not His.

We can walk in this unity NOW, and if you don't believe that, you won't, and that will be you, you won't have the unity which others already know.

We could even share this unity if you would just get off your high horse.

I just don't know what else to say to you.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

We have no prophets now. Psalms 74:9-11

I Disagree with this. We may be in a time of silence prophetically but this does not negate Prophets now or their eventual rising. The two witnesses themselves are prophets and Prophesy, No where in scripture does it say the office of prophet ceased. The fact that we are seeing a rise in watchmen and women shows that God is about to speak through his children to the world prophetically. Seers and watchmen are the precursors to prophets so to speak.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: Joel 2:28

A seer has the gift of discerning of Spirits, a Prophet has the Gift of Prophecy. A seer sees and warns but is powerless to do anything a Prophet has the ability act out justice according to the will of God. For example the two witnesses will not only speak prophetically but bring on all manner of Plagues upon the world. A Seer has no such Power.

 

[David H.]

You have never shown it from the Bible. I mean, the "latter rain" is a farming term, not a spiritual term. I don't deny the latter rain. It comes most years.

You seem to have a stake in some supposed outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and I guess you figure it hasn't happened yet because you lack a sense of unity with other Christians. So you make it God's fault, He's not latter rained yet! So how CAN you share unity?

Please realize we ALREADY have the same Spirit, unifying us, unless you are not His.

We can walk in this unity NOW, and if you don't believe that, you won't, and that will be you, you won't have the unity which others already know.

We could even share this unity if you would just get off your high horse.

I just don't know what else to say to you.

Ha, ha! About the latter rain. But I think you know what I am speaking of.

You say you have all you need, and are in need of nothing more. I say There is a final outpouring of the Spirit coming. That is the latter rain, Much like Pentecost, and the Spirit falling on believers en masse, we will have one last Pentecost like outpouring. Pentecost 30 ad being the early rain, and what we will experience the latter rain, which comes just before the harvest and if it does not come there is a poor harvest.

The wheat and the tares have been growing in the same field, and when the harvest is ripe it will be obvious who the tares are amongst us and then God will send his angels to harvest, but this cannot happen till after the latterrain comes.

The church age is a harvest, which has had the early rain and will have the latter rain. For the tares of the field this is frightening and they resist it for it will expose them as being the tares they are which is what I mean about this being an outpouring of the Gift of discerning of Spirits. It is by this gift that we then will judge the world, and angels etc. For Christ came not to Judge the world but to save the world the first time around, But the second time he will come and we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give account of all we have done.

 

[David H.]

Gnosticism is actually an ancient religion with it's own set of beliefs, that are NOT shared by @Taken .

a point was made, not an accusation of guilt. This is how you read into comments.

 

[Taken]

(There Will Be No Pre-Trib Rapture)

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Repeating yourself does not give merit to your claims.

Hear, Learn, Study....
Yes the Saved shall be Raise up above the Earth's Destruction.
Yes souls of Gods People ISRAEL shall be Saved during portions of the Tribulation.
Yes many of the Saved saints Shall reign with the Lord in His Earthly Kingdom.
Yes after 1,000 years, the Son of Man shall Descend from Heaven return to Earth (with Power), and
Yes every eye in Heaven, on Earth and in the Earth shall see the Son of Man coming with Clouds.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You Have A Huge Page Full Of Claims, And "Not One" Scripture For Support, "Not One"

You have a question about something inparticular...ask. I will not read, study for you.

 

[Truth7t7]

a point was made, not an accusation of guilt. This is how you read into comments.

I agree

 

[rockytopva]

I do not believe Revelation and end time prophecies are written where no two can read into and come up with the same conclusions, therefore the Lord says…

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

In which case, if this event were anything but pre-trib, there would be no reason to say such a thing. So… I look for the Lord to come any day, but within my heart believe such an event as decades off.

 

[Truth7t7]

Repeating yourself does not give merit to your claims.

Hear, Learn, Study....
Yes the Saved shall be Raise up above the Earth's Destruction.
Yes souls of Gods People ISRAEL shall be Saved during portions of the Tribulation.
Yes many of the Saved saints Shall reign with the Lord in His Earthly Kingdom.
Yes after 1,000 years, the Son of Man shall Descend from Heaven return to Earth (with Power), and
Yes every eye in Heaven, on Earth and in the Earth shall see the Son of Man coming with Clouds.

Glory to God,
Taken

More words of "Man" void of scripture to support claims made

 

[Truth7t7]

I do not believe Revelation and end time prophecies are written where no two can read into and come up with the same conclusions, therefore the Lord says…

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

In which case, if this event were anything but pre-trib, there would be no reason to say such a thing. So… I look for the Lord to come any day, but within my heart believe such an event as decades off.

The warning to watch is at the time of the end, the battle of Armageddon is seen

To claim this represents a pre-trib rapture is laughable

Revelation 16:15-17KJV
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Keraz]

I Disagree with this. We may be in a time of silence prophetically but this does not negate Prophets now or their eventual rising.

Sure. It is just for this time; before the Lord sends His Spirit upon His people. Ezekiel 39:29, Isaiah 32:15, Joel 2:28

Yes souls of Gods People ISRAEL shall be Saved during portions of the Tribulation.

There is no scripture that says this.
When Paul wrote to Christians in Rome, some of whom were Jews, he revealed the existence of two Israel's in one sentence while rejecting one of them as such: "Not all the ones of Israel are Israel..." (Romans 9:6). There you have it; two distinct Israel's in one statement. The first represents the Israelites by blood alone, but Paul says this Israel is not Israel at all! Clearly, then, he calls the one, "Israel," whom he believes is not Israel, which can only mean he retains the use of the term only to identify the bloodline of Abraham, not to define it. He goes on to say, "...nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all his children."

"It is not [Abraham's] children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise.
The Promise made to Abraham, of his 'seed', namely Jesus and His children by faith.

This proves that Christians are now the only Israel of God.

 

[marks]

a point was made, not an accusation of guilt. This is how you read into comments.

I'm pointing out that Gnosticism is a certain thing, with it's own definition.

Mis-appropriating words to use them in ways other than what they mean doesn't really communicate well.

Take it at face value and stop trying to malign me.

What I'm saying is this. "A" says that "B" is Gnostic. If "A" is meaning only that "B" holds to some "secret knowledge", then that disregards what Gnosticism really is. "A" isn't saying, for instance, that "B" believes matter is evil, or that a renegade "little god" created the material universe. Is "A" saying that "B" thinks we pre-existed in spirit, and are now trying to just return to spirit from evil matter? No.

Then it's not Gnosticism, and using that word miscommunicates. It's erroneous labeling, and generally that's done to dismiss what is being labeled without a real refutation.

A point was made, and I've made a point as well, that the label of Gnosticism is not accurate.

Now, if you want to turn that into an accusation of guilt of some sort, that's your business. Once again, don't project on me what you do. I'm not you.

Much love!

 

[rockytopva]

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4

In other words Paul is saying here…. If the rapture occurs today it is no big deal as we live not in darkness.

 

[Taken]

I've lost the original quote, but this response is to "Taken" and not the posts that followed.

... I don't believe that there are "3 wraths";

I disagree, based on Scripture and The Understanding of the purpose of Wrath.

1) Wrath of the Lamb
Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

2) Devils Wrath
Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

3) Gods Wrath
Rev 15:
[7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

though there may be 3 expressions of wrath.

Saying but not Acting?

I also reject the notion that God has taught the saints two opposing views of His wrath or that only one view reveals who is genuinely "saved" ( that's a heresy called gnosticism or that there is "secret knowledge" required by God for our salvation.)

.....

Appears you are making an accusation toward me...
OF: saying God teaches the saints two opposing views of "His Wrath"...

Perhaps you could quote me, of exactly what you are talking about...Since I clearly identified THREE WRATHS, BY;
THE LAMB OF GOD
THE DEVIL
GOD HIMSELF

This is why we want to compare scripture with scripture pertinent to the wrath of God, and to identify those people subject to condemnation.

Certainly.
But it is your accusation, I am interested in you revealing I actually did what you accuse.

"Those people subject to condemnation" ?
Simple...Those who Reject the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

More words of "Man" void of scripture to support claims made

Eh...What I claim is Scriptural. If you bother to search and can not find it, ask.

 

[Truth7t7]

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4

In other words Paul is saying here…. If the rapture occurs today it is no big deal as we live not in darkness.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in the Holy scriptures

 

[Davy]

I do not believe Revelation and end time prophecies are written where no two can read into and come up with the same conclusions, therefore the Lord says…

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

In which case, if this event were anything but pre-trib, there would be no reason to say such a thing. So… I look for the Lord to come any day, but within my heart believe such an event as decades off.

That's faulty reasoning, because that Rev.16:15 verse goes directly opposite of what the pre-trib rapture theory says.

In Rev.16:15, Jesus gives that verse just prior to the battle of Armageddon, which is the day of His return, an event to occur on the "day of the Lord" (last day of this world, the end of the tribulation).

But pre-trib says Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR to the tribulation. Pre-trib is also confused about when the "day of the Lord" happens. It doesn't happen until the very last day of this world, which is the day of Christ's return to fight the battle of Armageddon. This is why He is saying in Rev.16:15 to the Church to be on watch and keep our garments. It means the Church is still here on earth through that 6th Vial. The 7th Vial represents the day of Christ's return to gather His 'faithful' Church.

So you've got a conflict of reasoning, because God's Word does not contradict itself.

 

[Truth7t7]

Eh...What I claim is Scriptural. If you bother to search and can not find it, ask.

I'm asking you to support your claims with scripture when posted, thanks

 

[marks]

Ha, ha! About the latter rain. But I think you know what I am speaking of.

And I think you know what I'm saying. In the Bible we read where God tells the Israelites that God will send them the former and latter rains in blessing them under their Law Covenant with God.

Some have taken to appropriating that term for their own unBiblical doctrine commonly called the "Latter Rain Movement". I might as well call something the Barley Harvest Movement, and define it however I like. It's not in the Bible, so there is nothing I have to make sure to agree with. I can just insist that you must agree with me.

Same thing with this "Latter Rain". There is NOTHING in the Bible about some second Pentacost, or however you want to describe it. Nothing at all. So whatever you want to say about it, you can. But that doesn't make it Bible.

And Just Because I happen to know this, you go on with,

You say you have all you need, and are in need of nothing more.

Which is your rewording to make me look bad. Do you realize what it means that you do this?? It's not me you give information about here, you are revealing yourself, someone who will relentlessly continue in falsehood.

Because what I say is this:


2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Why do you not believe this? This IS Bible.

It's not me you are arguing with.

And please . . . please . . . don't just give that empty reply . . . "You just think you don't need to grow or ANYTHING!"

We have been made complete in Him, we have been given Everything we need for life and godliness. Now, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Learn to think according to what God as made you into - His spirit child.

There ya' go! Not that this should be any surprise, but there it is in a nutshell. If you continue to say what you say contrary to this, you are either treating me a liar, or lying about me yourself.

So . . . be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Pentecost 30 ad being the early rain, and what we will experience the latter rain, which comes just before the harvest and if it does not come there is a poor harvest.

This is fiction. Not in the Bible.

Much love!