Non trins are not christians or Jesus' followers.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
2)Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."


John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I a returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""


Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
2)Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
You see, Jesus says he does not know all things but the Father does. This is a huge difference between the Fathe and the Son. Jesus also says His Father is greater than He.

Jesus is also holy Servant of God the Father.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
some more coming.

Please read all of them; Jesus is commenting mostly about His Father how His Father gave Him authority to do all things.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
Bible_Gazer said:
We and Angels can be called Gods. john 10:34
Moses was made a god before Pharaoh Ex 7:1
Jesus is a God, but not the almighty. Isa. Isa. 9:6 Heb.1:8-9
Jesus has a savior that he prayed to. Hebrews 5:7

Word is a God
The same was in he beginning with God
There can be only One God.
 

HammerStone

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Feb 12, 2006
5,113
279
83
36
South Carolina
prayerforums.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh, but you have not listened to what He was saying.
"Why do you call Me good"....in other words, "Don't you realize that, by calling me good, you are acknowledging Who I am?"
Bingo.

Joyful, how exactly is Jesus Savior if he is not fully God and fully man? Is he a super human? Is he just the only guy to listen well enough to God?

IE: Would you, at least hypothetically, be able to obtain Savior status if you listened to God well enough?
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
HammerStone said:
Bingo.

Joyful, how exactly is Jesus Savior if he is not fully God and fully man? Is he a super human? Is he just the only guy to listen well enough to God?

IE: Would you, at least hypothetically, be able to obtain Savior status if you listened to God well enough?
EXACTLY!

If Jesus were not our Emmanuel....God-with-us....then He was just another dead Jew, and His blood can't do anything for anyone.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
Oh, but you have not listened to what He was saying.
"Why do you call Me good"....in other words, "Don't you realize that, by calling me good, you are acknowledging Who I am?"
Why am I not listening to what He was saying?

After all those I have being commenting to be faithful to Him and is this what you come to conclusion?
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
EXACTLY!

If Jesus were not our Emmanuel....God-with-us....then He was just another dead Jew, and His blood can't do anything for anyone.
How do you twist to "God with us" to God is trinity?
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
Bingo.

Joyful, how exactly is Jesus Savior if he is not fully God and fully man? Is he a super human? Is he just the only guy to listen well enough to God?
where did Jesus say He has to be fully God and fully man to be our Lord and Savior?

Isnt God's permission good enough for you? God gave Jesus authority to be His followers Lord and Savior.

IE: Would you, at least hypothetically, be able to obtain Savior status if you listened to God well enough?
We are talking about God and Jesus' identification. Please stick to the topic.

And Please read everything I quoted. Those quotes all refute all your claim of you have to believe in the trinity to be saved.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
Here are more quosts of His disciples.

They all making it clear God the Father and Jesus the Lord.

Jesus is our Lord, not God. Jesus' Father is God of all of us.
Romans 1
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1
1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 8:6 (New International Version)
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (New International Version)
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[a] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

2 Corinthians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
4Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 4:5-6 (New International Version)
5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Philippians 1
1Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
2Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

1 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


2 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Philemon 1
1Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
2And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
3Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 2:5-13
5It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet."
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says,
"I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."[c] 13And again,
"I will put my trust in him."[d] And again he says,
"Here am I, and the children God has given me."[e]

James 1
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2 John 1
1The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Barrd said:
There can be only One God.
If you read those scriptures I gave you, its shows other Gods.

Here is another on about the Devil.
2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


I do believe there is one God above all Gods, the Father of Jesus Christ.
Jesus prayed to his God and Jesus is the lesser God, but a Savior to mankind and we must worship him to get to the Father.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
If you read those scriptures I gave you, its shows other Gods.
Yes, you are right. But Jesus' God is the true God. Jesus called us god too. Jesus said His God is our God too.

According to trinity believers logic, we are God too since Jesus says we are His brothers and sisters.

They are claiming Jesus is God because He is the Son of God. So we are God too since Jesus is God and we are His brothers and sisters.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
I do believe there is one God above all Gods, the Father of Jesus Christ.
Jesus prayed to his God and Jesus is the lesser God, but a Savior to mankind and we must worship him to get to the Father.
Yes, good observation brother.
 

liafailrock

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2015
496
337
63
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I take the Church of God view and also those from the likes of the Sacred name movement with Judaic thought. God is actually a family --- there's 2 right now (John 1:1-2) and later a whole bunch more. Trinitarianism, and other doctrines such as an immortal soul , eternal burning hellfire, and various "holidays" in the so-called Christian liturgy (changing of the times) comes from the Greek and Gentile thought that crept into the bible understanding and has no basis in the scripture. It creates FUD but not faith. It's interesting to note, that the Word is God according to John, and the universe was created by the Word. And yet the creator says his Father is greater than him and that's who we pray to. This is the part where the bible says God spoke (the Word) and everything came into being. Pretty mind boggling.
 

lforrest

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Admin
Aug 10, 2012
5,591
6,842
113
Faith
Christian
To the fallen, Satan is their god. This does not make him a god, he is only treated as such by his slaves. It is only from their perspective that there is any other god.

There is precident for someone who is clearly not God standing in as God. In Moses' encounter with the burning bush for example.

Be it the fallen world or Pharaoh, their perspective doesn't change the fact that there is only one true God.
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doesn't the trinity believe that Jesus is a God and the Holy Spirit is a God and Jehovah is a God ?
That is why its called three in the God head ?
 

lforrest

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Admin
Aug 10, 2012
5,591
6,842
113
Faith
Christian
As I understand it, the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share the same divine nature. This nature defines them as God.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,988
1,227
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
lforrest said:
To the fallen, Satan is their god. This does not make him a god, he is only treated as such by his slaves. It is only from their perspective that there is any other god.

There is precident for someone who is clearly not God standing in as God. In Moses' encounter with the burning bush for example.
Not in that case. God was literally there.


Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.


No mere angel's presence can cause the ground to be holy but the presence of God can. The issue here is misunderstanding "an angel of the Lord" to be a regular angel rather than a term that refers to God's physical presence.
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So was God all God in Jesus or just a part of God ?

Jesus gave his spirit back to himself on the cross before he died, so is this the invisible God moving out of the flesh going back to his original Spirit Being state other than the Holy Ghost.
 

Joyful

New Member
Jan 7, 2007
812
7
0
Doesn't the trinity believe that Jesus is a God and the Holy Spirit is a God and Jehovah is a God ?
That is why its called three in the God head ?
Yes, that's what they preach.