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Featured Not by works - but by faith

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by FollowHim, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    I imagine so, ...there are a lot of radicals out there. But, no surprise, many are called but fear are chosen.
     
  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    We are saved by grace through faith.

    After we are born again, we are given the HS as a seal and promise. But also as a teacher and Guide We experience Gods love. And because we hav been loved, we now have the capacity to love others.

    The Bible says the way to moral living is through the law of love. But it is not automatic. We hve to learn not only to trust God with our eternity, but with our everyday life, and all of our needs. That does not come all at once, and it comes in varying speed among Gods children. Some grow fast Some, Like the corinthian church, remain babes for along time.

    The way to produce fruit is to be attached to the vine, if we are nto attached, we will bear not fruit. Many become prodigal children who not only do not produce fruit. You could not even tell they are their father’s son or daughter. But hopelessness brings us back. Like the prodigal (I know I speak from experience) we we trust self. And not our father, Our lives turn fast. In fact, unlike non believers, the emptiness becomes unbearable. And we return.

    One thing we always have to remember, He who began that good work in us (when he gave us the spirit) will compete that work. He does not give up. His love is everlasting and unfailing. We may be babes, we may be prodigal. we ay be regulars. We may even be Pauline (super mature) but we are all Gods children.
     
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  3. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    "we are all Gods children" - No we are not all Gods children. The lake of fire is for sinners. How would a good Father throw His children into the lake of fire.

    Only those who listen to Jesus and follow Him are His sheep.
    The principle in scripture is God disowned those who disown Him, He counts sinners who continue in evil sinful behaviour as if they were never righteous and walking in His ways. Jesus and the cross was the clear picture of what went before, not something new, but its reality, the Kingdom of Heaven come to earth with the presence of the Holy Spirit in ones heart.

    We are a flower the comes and fades and dies, so temporary, so fragile and so beautiful as it testifies to the love of Christ and what He can do in a believer and follower of Him.

    Many will defend the weak, not realising they are just compromising the righteousness and truth of Christ. Love does literally overcome the world. But only when the believer discovers this in Christ does it become real. Unfortunately until this happens, it seems like a lie. Rather than realising the promise, and then asking the loving Holy Father to make it real, some would rather attack and destroy those who speak the very words of Jesus. God bless you.
     
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  4. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to,p remember, like paul found out, when it comes to the pure definition of what a sinner is, we all fall under that grouping, as james said, if we keep the whole law yet stumble in just one point we are guilty. And as paul said all have sinned and fallen short. (It’s sad that the Greek calls this “have sinned” an aorist active verb, and “fall short” a present active state, which means even today, we are in a state of sinning and falling short of Gods glory) as paul said, he is chief of all sinners, and continues to do what he does not desire to do.

    but at the same token, realize that as John said, a son or daughter born of God can not live in sin because they have been born of God, whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God.

    While these appear contradictory, they are not, the first is our state for judgment, the second is our state, or life as believers who have been given the spirit and made new creatures

    The first, although definite, is set aside, because Jesus took the penalty for us (the curse of the law is death)

    again as paul said, because of grace do we continue in sin? Again no, in fact as believers we can’t do this (see first John) as believers, we are of those who obey, not perfectly, but as a lifestyle, even prodigal children can not continue as I am living proof. It just is impossible to do. Those who do, again, as John said were never of us.

    The reality is this, the most morally righteous child of God apart from Grace would be doomed on judgment day, lost with no hope. Suffer the second death,

    let’s not boast and think we are better than we are. Instead let’s be humble and see who we can love and serve, as God Loveland serves us continually
     
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  5. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you are saying. As we follow Jesus and walk in His example, we are saints, cleansed purified and made whole.
    Our problem is in learning what God regards are good and evil behaviour and not being condemned by the standards of this world.

    How many people feel condemned by not washing hands, by not wearing the right clothes, by not obeying man made rules, by not respecting the right people or teachers, by upsetting the powers of this world, while witnessing to Christ?

    Unbelievers who do not think Jesus came to make us free and cleansed, will always spread condemnation of the people of God by their own standards. The simple point is illustrated by Zachariah and Elizabeth who were called righteous. For some this is impossible, no one is righteous.

    Sadly until you know Jesus, righteousness and love seems an impossible dream, so making sense of Christ is He is just sarcastic, and putting up an impossible set of standards, rather than He is pointing out without a changed heart, cleansed, purified and made whole, it is impossible.
     
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  6. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    What I am saying is no one can earn salvation by doing good deeds, and if we are to come to him we must become poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt)

    and if we want to grow in christ, we must rely on his grace and learn to serve and love others.
    We are in reality saved by grace not works, he who began a good work will complete it, not by all the good deeds we have done it by his mercy
     
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  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Study the parables of Christ for practical applications.
     
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    People get confused on this issue because time isn't factored in. We are BEING saved by grace IF we walk in the Spirit or are led by the Spirit. The spiritual life is a gift.

    But come judgment day we will not be judged by grace but against grace....we will be judged by our works and our attitude.

    I find that people want an easy out...not realizing that grace is the power to actually fulfill the holiness requirements of the law.

    In the end it is what we have become. Are we as loving and humble as Jesus in our character? What are we like when we are NOT in the Spirit? So then the fire will prove what we have truly become.
     
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  9. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    I have been saved, not by works of righteousness which I have done, am doing or will do. But by Gods mercy through the washing and new birth of the Holy Spirit.


    My judgment will be the Bema seat, will I will earn reward or see my reward burned up, but still be saved even as through Fire.

    I will not be at the great white throne, where death and hell are delivered to Christ to, see if their works are enough to save them, and every one of them are cast into the lake of fire, because they rejected grace.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  10. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    This is very true, we are saved by the grace of God expressed through the cross, for the forgiveness of sins for those who have faith in Christ.
    Repentance is admitting as sinners we have no hope or capability of saving ourselves or being regarded as worthy.

    If a dead person is dead spiritually, how can they be bankrupt?
    And in Christ we grow because we dwell in Him and His word through faith. And the fruit of this dwelling or abiding is good works as we see the need and reach out and act on our promptings. All Gods work in our hearts is fruit, real, abiding, eternal fruit. As Jesus says, if we abide in Him we do not need to worry about what will happen, because He will bring it about.

    If one has ever seen a seed grow, you plant it, and a week or so later it sprouts up green shoots. It is wonderful to see, when the joy of the Lord takes over someones life, and it is a delight for them to see how love in their hearts reaches out and touches others. God bless you
     
  11. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    This is sounding very personal, "my judgment".
    Who is included in this judgement?

    Pauls says we will all answer to the Father, so we must not judge others beforehand, for each carries their own justification, that alone will be shown on the last day.

    But we are called to be light, to walk in the Spirit, to be like Jesus here on earth, to be His example to others. God bless you
     
  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We shall all appear before the Bema seat of Christ to receive what we have done in the body. Some to eternal glory and other to eternal shame and reproach. And that is the house of God.
     
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  13. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said blessed are the poor I Spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God,

    the word translated poor in the Greek literally means to become bankrupt.

    it is talking about how we see ourselves, the tax collector got on his knees unable to even look up, we are not going to come to Christ in true saving faith unless we come to him bankrupt. As long as we even have the slightest hint we can still help, we will only come in we’re belief, continuing to try to earn our way by works.
     
  14. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    This phrase "I have been saved, not by works of righteousness which I have done, am doing or will do"

    John was convinced our salvation is confirmed to our hearts when we find ourselves obeying Gods commands, following love, doing righteous deeds and acts of kindness that flow from the heart. His example is seeing a brother in need and meeting it.
    The converse is true that those who claim to know God yet ignore this need or expression of love, find themselves lost and in denial of who God is.

    This is quite surprising that among the fellow disciples were those who thought they knew God, but at a love giving level knew nothing.
    It is clear that today things are still this clear. If our hearts are stirred by Gods word, and we love His people, then Christ Jesus dwells in us.

    When one reads of the state the apostles lived in, it is this bond between the brothers and sisters in Christ which is the mark Jesus is talking about.
    I have shared and seen such a thing in action, people in need touched by real love and attention, and this love is the bread of life.
    God bless you
     
  15. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    It is personal

    it will be where I am judged, and will be rewarded gold silver precious stone wood hay and stray

    the word judgement here s the greek bema.

    As apposed to the great white throne, where the greek word is Krinos

    Two different judgment for two different types of people/

    Yes I will answer to the father. I have a father

    Those who are not born again, their father is satan, And they will suffer with him.

    I am not urgent anyone. God does that.
     
  16. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Yep

    If you think your going to spend eternity based on how good you are or how many woks you do.

    You better think again.

    When you stand before God, yoru sins better be washed in the blood. Otherwise, you will earn y9oru just reward of eternal death
     
  17. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    The phrase is a phase used by Paul in titus 3.

    John spoke of KNOWING we have eternal life. and this knowledge of eternal security in our soul being the basis which keeps us believing in his name

    He also said those born of Gd can not sin

    So not sure what your resistance is to my words
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hey, guys. Blessings in Christ to all of you.

    I was reading through this thread, and thought I would post my thoughts in a new one rather than potentially hijack this one.

    So post if you're interested. Just thought I'd share,
    Hidden

    What Makes Us Fit For The Kingdom?
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is false. You are taking things too far...as all religious people do. The judgment of Christ is about the kind of works you do. Are they eternal works prepared in advance? Are they just human works based on religious posturing. Many will be rejected by God.

    Out of the same lump God makes vessels for honour and vessels of dishonour. Humble yourself in the fear of the Lord and pray that God would keep you in His mercy.

    And learn that God has no favourite special people. He rejected His own people when their attitudes became too smug. Be careful because you sound too smug to me.
     
  20. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    "the slightest hint we can still help" - Have you seen the cross on which Jesus died? Have you seen the love He showed His disciples, even Judas, how if we compare our deeds, they are just minor blimps in comparison. I cannot agree with your idea that poor in spirit is some self justifying opposite. Poor in spirit is knowing the grief and loss the world is in, how empty and tragic every day actually is and how each tragedy is going on.

    The world is founded on being happy, celebrating, having a good time, pretending everything is fine, when things most time are tragically failed.
    If you see Jesus, knowing His suffering, you know there is no trying to prove anything to our King. It is why the cross is an eternal statement the Lord will do anything possible to save us, and take the worst we are, and open the door for us to walk through and walk the path so that we might become the best He can make us.

    Denying the door and denying the path, is denying Jesus and His way. He is the way, the straight path, the way of obedience and truth, the light to the nations of true morality and balance, true freedom and eternity brought to earth, through the Holy Spirit, from now to eternity.

    The deceitfulness of sin is to convince us we are innocents with no way out, slaves to our behaviour and emotional justifications, things that can never be healed, when the Lord of all creation calls this a lie, and demonstrated this by the cross. No limit in our lives is too great that He cannot overcome if we believe. That is what faith actually is, believing the impossible, made possible through the Holy Spirit.

    But for some God is too weak and feeble to bring this as a reality in their hearts. I have seen people go to their graves believing God could not defeat this sin in their lives or bring true eternal cleansing, only the covering and appearance of it. I can only testify to this, because in my life it has become true, love made real, so I know there is no limit to what God can do, or prison bars He cannot break down if we have the faith to believe and ask Him. God bless you.
     
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