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Featured Not by works - but by faith

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by FollowHim, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Some groups believe what they believe makes them saved no matter how they behave or at some later point believe.
    To me this is a non-covenant based on a non-relationship. The prophets said simply the promises God gave to His people were based on them loving and appreciating Him and His commands and following Him. If they chose the way of the world, no matter what went before would be forgotten and as with Korah the ground would open up and swallow them whole.

    Arrogance says, we are the chosen, secure in the promise, though we are rebellious evil wicked people who ignore and disobey the principles and heart of the King. And God replaced these people with the disciples, grafted into the vine, because they walked the way of love. It is impossible to be in Christ and not be in love and its dynamic life. It is like saying a marathon runner can turn up on the day of the marathon and run it without training and preparation. They will just fail, and only fools behave like this. No a marathon runner creates a training plan and follows it so when the day comes they are ready to achieve the race and end it. Jesus uses exactly the same language and Paul also.

    And the cost is our lives, everything we are, to become a new creation, set in Christ that effects everything we do, say, think and desire.
    It is hard to say anything that is actually left out. Put simply if the word of Christ dwells in your heart, these are the words Christ speaks to us.
     
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  2. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    It seems the cross means something different to you than to me.
    Each time I see the cross it stills my heart in wonder and praise. It reaffirms to me how much He loves me, and how much I owe Him to walk in His ways. Ironically it is this walk He walked, driven by this love that overcame all the traps and illusions of the world, power, security, ambition, wealth, recognition, domination, greed, envy, self indulgence.

    If this love and knowledge dwells in my purified and cleansed heart, made Holy in His presence, where is the problem?
    Maybe you do not believe what I am writing or testifying to, because this must not be your experience.

    And I cannot speak to your experience, I can only share mine. And if you knew my heart, there is not resistance to your words because they are not showing light or addressing something in my heart. Without conviction there can be no response. So equally my words get no echo from you, so they are not speaking to where you are. But that is fine, I just share what I have, that is what we are called to do, to be light, to know the grace Christ has given us, and then let it shine. God bless you
     
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  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    This is false

    This is phariseeism. It says your works can be enough to cause God to forgive your sins.

    Like th pharisee. This thinking does not remember the basic aspect of the law. Only blood can cause redemption.
     
  4. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    It is obvious you do not understand what I am saying, please go back reread and try again. Because what I am saying does not resemble anything you are saying here
     
  5. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    When I see the cross. I see the love of God which surpasses all understand.

    I still ow God perfection. I have yet to meet that requirement. Maybe you have?

    When I see the cross. I se how much he LOVED ME, so I focus on taking that love and LOVING OTHERS.
     
  6. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me on one forum. I shared about praying and praising Jesus is such a blessing, that touches our hearts and refreshes our souls.
    This sister in Christ echoed back to me, how much the Lord had done the same to her, and we connected.

    It was sharing something deeply personal and precious. For me when Mary meats Jesus in the the garden after He has risen and two words are exchanged "Mary" "Rabonni" says everything about mutual appreciation. And this appreciation is in the light, open, real not fake or pretend.

    Some live their whole lives having no authentic expressions and only doing what they think is expected of them. They even do not know themselves who they actually are, as their real emotions are never used or expressed. How can any spiritual experience ever be real or even love or appreciation be known, as in reality it is all just a mess. And I have wondered how people trapped like this would sound and talk. It is nothing from the heart is reliable, and everything is facts, all is forgiveness and nothing within can be made real.

    Now it is not their fault, they have literally lived their whole lives like this, pretending every response, never being sad because they are sad or happy because they are happy. It is all fake.

    Part of knowing Jesus is starting to be honest between our hearts and what we show, and truly being rejected and lost or being loved and found.
    Until people take the risk, become real, and start to trust Jesus to bring them through the reality of knowing the creator of the universe, it is all just theories and ideas. And there are an infinite number of ideas we can invent. And once that becomes the hallmark of a movement, you know they are pretending rather than being real.
     
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  7. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure there is anything that complex going on here. I am expressing my thoughts on salvation by faith and not by works.
    Do I need to understand more than this?

    If we agreed I said my words would echo in your heart. Clearly that is not happening.
    I wish you well, but I am probably not capable of understanding your perspective.
    But that is the reality of life, we can pass as ships in the night. God bless you.
     
  8. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this. There is a very different way we have of expressing this.
    I mentioned wonder and praise.
    Owe God perfection?
    I do not owe God anything. I am His and He is mine. To owe God something assumes I have rights, or a will, or the ability to step apart from Him.
    I am a slave, a bond servant, bound into His Kingdom.

    Clearly this is not language which is all over scripture is not something that echoes for you.

    Either this is an experience or it is something foreign.
    I know from discussing such things with others, we are as we are. You cannot translate things of the heart into belief, it is something that happens or is something not present. I used to believe in describing such things, people could experience or know what I was referring to, but clearly for many this is simply not true. It could be actually the experience is the same, but the words and their meaning are slightly different.

    What is beautiful is Gods people is to be of one mind. That means a fellowship and love that is real and passes understanding.
    Now if at this fundamental level we do not connect, then it ends here. God bless you.
     
  9. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Your trying to read into my words things I am not trying to express.

    The law says we owe God perfection. We do. Because that is what God requires.

    We cant give him what we owe him, thats why we use RELY on Grace. Ie, he does not expect it. Because he knows we can;t achieve it, thats why h came in the first place. Because of his love
     
  10. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Phariseeism? A label that is foreign to me. The pharisees were a Jewish sect relating to the law of Moses.
    Nothing spoken here has been about being a jew or the law.

    So putting a label on something without explaining what you actually mean is not helpful and suggests from my experience of others, just a way of being derogatory to people one does not like. The problem with fools, is they think themselves wise in their own eyes, and through a few phrases can abuse others with pointed comments that actually have no real meaning.

    A false prophet denies Christs words and His way, the way of life, the straight path, the ways of the Kingdom.
    Is this the path you are denying?
     
  11. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    I wish we could connect. It is such a blessing to connect.
    Do you know such fellowship of which I speak?

    Jesus is wonderful, and His salvation speaks to our hearts and transforms our lives, Amen
     
  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    But redemption into what? Salvation into what? You are like a person who just wants to take a bus without knowing where the bus is going.

    Grace fulfills the law...otherwise it isn't grace. faith establishes the law otherwise it isn't faith.

    So you are trying to understand something spiritual with a religious reasoning that supports the flesh.

    Grace is the power to walk as Jesus walked. No sin. God is holy and His will is that we would walk in holiness...as Jesus did.
     
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  13. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Don't you love HALF TRUTHs? I do! If it weren't for HALF TRUTHs, 3/4's of the posters in this Forum wouldn't have anything to contribute! They can't quote their pastors, because they're not reliable. And they can't quote Scripture, because they don't understand what they read, if they even read Scripture. So there'd be nothing for them to post.

    But because we have so many HALF TRUTHs, we ALL get to participate. First the DECEPTION, and then the TRUTH. -- So here's the second HALF of what wasn't presented:

    Are you ready for it? Hold on, it's coming ...

    FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.


    There. Now you have the complete picture of FAITH and WORKS, for which neither one stands alone ...
    Bobby Jo
     
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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Justification by grace through faith is NOT a combination of faith and works. Obviously you don't understand this Gospel truth, even while you assume you are wiser than other posters and scoff at them. Read and study Romans chapter 4, then James chapter 2, then come back and tell us what is true and what is not.
     
  15. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Faith is the starting point, Works is the evidence. They MUST be inherently intertwined. -- Christianity 101.


    Bobby Jo
     
  16. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Why is it some see one reality in scripture and others see another?
    Meaning, love and emotions.

    I start with my life and the lessons Jesus has taught me. I share from the the heart. Some decide we are the same and others we are deluded etc. or worse. So enemies attempt destruction, friends to walk in fellowship and praise.

    Over what? Jesus brings us into purity.
    If one is impure something is wrong.
    Light and walking in it is our calling. Miss this miss Jesus. Jesus is unique, and He helps all who seek Him with their whole heart.

    Sadly enemies, fools lost to the enemy will call this evil deception, from the pit of hell, told by hypocritical liars. Ironically these people will say they are sinners with unresolved sin, which shouts there own condemnation before God and denial of scripture. So I shine light on such foolishness and its end, death.
     
  17. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Repentance from sinning and choosing the walk of love with Jesus is our start. The cross was the cost, death to self, life to Christ.
    One can easily skip this and the need to confess and be cleansed daily, in all we do and say.

    I have read some sharing that sounds of Jesus but misses holiness and purity. Without this all is lost and has no point. This dilemma of our hearts and walk, emotions and our aspirations created our churches and sense of the holy and the lost.

    Without us finding maturity in Him Peter declares we are not secure.

    So few aspire to the way of Jesus, so can live lost thinking they are saved. It is great to know the fellowship of Christ and His love through repentance and faith. Thank you Jesus, Amen
     
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  18. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Jesus calls us, our whole lives on the altar. God does not demand perfection, He calls us to follow and believe Him and we will receive communion.

    Until we become mature, it seems impossible. The lie is to believe the sinner is God's finished work. That is the way of the world.

    Liars and imposters will take the cross and say it proves we do nothing God does everything. Jesus came to shout, follow me, learn from me, walk with me and you will find life.
    All who listen and follow know this. God bless you
     
  19. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    I am confused

    This is a thread on salvation. (Justification)

    Why are we discussing sanctification?
     
  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is wrong. Jesus came to give us His perfection so that we would walk in it...and do the works of Jesus. God DOES expect perfection by giving us grace...to walk in the perfected humanity of Jesus. THAT is what grace does, Otherwise you have an invented pretend grace. Grace is the power of God which works mightily in believers who abide in Him.

    So you have bought into a man-made religious scheme that denies the power of God...and makes God into a sin-loving deity. A sinful holiness? God forbid!

    Seek the Lord for His real grace.
     
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