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Featured Not by works - but by faith

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by FollowHim, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Phariseeism is a belief that we are saved by our works. By How good or morally upright we are. Or by religious traditional works.

    It is alive and well today.
    Not saying you are teaching or promoting it, Was just saying what you said described that thinking.
     
  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    We are saved from wrath, we are saved from the curse of the law. We are saved from an eternity in hell

    I know what I am understanding and talking about

    This thread is about HOW one is saved is i not? So why are you trying to insert works or good deeds into the equation? Did not paul say if anyone teach a different gospel. Something should be done?
     
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    False of course. We receive grace in order to do the works of heaven, or at least for works of righteousness for which we will be judged.

    We are justified by walking in grace in order to fulfill the commandments of God. If we love God we will DO His commandments. But if you think grace is a pass on obedience then you are like the servant that buried his talent.
     
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  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    But many believers who are saved from hell fire will be rejected into outer darkness. Judgment begins at the house of God. The truth is not just about eating sweets.

    Allow the truth to sink into your mind and heart.
     
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  5. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Yet this does not say we are saved by faith plus works it just states a fact. If one CLAIMS to have faith yet does not even have 1 work. Can that type of DEAD faith save him?
    Well of course not. Mere belief in Christ with no faith never saved anyone. Even demons believe. What good is it?
    People who have True faith works. Not to get saved. Because they are saved
     
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  6. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Amen James did not contradict Paul (romans 4 eph 1 and 2)
     
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  7. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    That’s saying we are saved by our works of righteousness

    this just is not found in scripture

    James is refuting licentiousness. A belief only apart from repentance and true faith gospel.
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    I have not even hinted at this. But you are not clear about the doctrine of justification by grace either. So as I already said, kindly read and study Romans 4, Romans 10, Ephesians 2, and other passages which present the doctrine of justification.

    As to your bogus contention, here is the answer from Scripture:
    For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world...(Titus 2:11,12)

    1 PETER 1

    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
    5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
     
  9. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    If you think you are justified by walking, Your basically spitting on the cross of Christ, Because he could have stayed in heaven, and we could have saved ourselves

    Grace is not a pass on obedience, do not put words in my mouth, Grace is based on the fact, we are UNABLE to be obedient enough to meet Gods standard (perfection)
     
  10. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Wow man, You are out there

    Hell is outer darkness

    Its called the second death, ALL who have not been born again will suffer this judgment.

    The truth has sunk in, It seems to me, you still think your worthy. That should scare you!
     
  11. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Seems like an over simplification of something. The common use of this word does not have your meaning. It is therefore impossible to apply to someone as it could be a complement or an insult. A very limp slap I think, oooooo.
     
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  12. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry. Who are you to say someone as a believer is spitting on the cross. No believer of any type would do this, and to suggest such a thing is deeply sad and absurd.
     
  13. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    This is a personal attack on someone. Why do you feel entitled to do this?

    People share there deeply held beliefs, to be accepted as this, and respected.
    I always have to earn the right to be heard. Everyone freely finds there way through, and certainly not by confrontation.
     
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    That's not biblical at all. Outer darkness has no fire. Fire IS light. And you are just stuck with the religious traditions of men rather than actually looking deeper into the biblical narrative.



    So what you should say is..."I can't tell the difference in the bible between hell and outer darkness." But light and darkness are not at all the same.
     
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  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ..we weren't able before Christ. But you are not seeing the purpose of Jesus's coming to earth. He died and was resurrected to give us His life....a life that we can live in through grace. And then it is HIS power....not ours we live in. As in...no longer I,

    You really need to go over the gospels again...and the whole NT ...and NOT look at it from a carnal viewpoint but instead with an open heart and mind that doesn't limit what God can do.

    We can do ALL things IN Christ. And in Him is no sin.
     
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We are saved BY grace...not FOR grace. We are saved in order to do the works of Christ BY grace.

    Grace ...not a free ride down the hill but the power and strength to climb up the hill. In His strength
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  17. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Clearly someone does not love or respect another as a fellow believer in Christ. I have never read of one person claiming by obeying Jesus you are spitting on Him.

    If we love Jesus we obey Him. How can anyone who understands language makes obedience into hatred.

    Darkness blinds the heart to the hurt such an idea causes. It is a mind turning in strong emotion that overwhelms any sensitivity. The fruit of the Spirit is not at work here, on anything with understanding of scripture and God's will. God bless you, you encourage me dear brother
     
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  18. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Sanctification.
    I die 5 minutes after being saved.
    As far as God sees, the believer is pure and holy, so will enter heaven, cleansed and purified it Christ.
    If sin can make us unclean, and being clean is part of our acceptance, then we need to walk in purity and faith.

    If impurity and sin becomes our life, where is Jesus in us. So keeping us on the path, consistent and pure is sanctification, but this does not invalidate our position.

    We down play God's work in us, and play up our failures, rather than working with our weaknesses. So unbelievers will always miss the victory, and hope one day it will arrive.

    I praise God for His love and working, amen
     
  19. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

    In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but works are not the essence of faith or the means/basis by which we obtain salvation. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
     
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  20. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    You just made my point, thank you

    not everyone who claims to be believers are believers,

    and yes, many of these professed believers spit on the cross. Whether you think so or not is not the issue
     
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