Not faith alone?

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BloodBought 1953

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The person who says they are saved by the blood (alone) but doesn't have a new life is a hypocrite too.


Two things Save us—— Christ’s Blood and our Faith in that Blood......Believing THAT and THAT ALONE is what “ GIVES” us that New Life you are talking about....
I used to be an Atheist.....if I did not have a “ New Life” , why on EARTH would I spend all of this time in a “ Christian Forum?”
I used to think the “ myth” of Jesus was nothing more than a “ Crutch” for weak and simple minded people to make it through Life.....Now I KNOw that Jesus was actually “ God in the Flesh”, the Creator Of The Universe who spoke and “ Nothing “ became “ Everything”......He came to Earth to Pour out His Life to Save Mankind From their Sins...
Because I Believe these things, I “do” have a New Life—— In fact , I am a “New Creation”. How about you ?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Do you “ REST” in the Gospel , which means that you don’t add any Works to it, or do you add to it with Law- Keeping , etc whereby God declares in Heb 3 , that you are Guilty Of “UNBELIEF ?
Not having works of righteousness after saying you are relying solely on the blood is also being guilty of UNBELIEF.
 

Ferris Bueller

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There is a TON of stuff to be added to “ the Blood”——- just not in the case of SALVATION ! That is ALL that I am referring to.....The very reason God created us was “ to do good Works and to take on the Burdens Of Others.....AFTER the BLOOD ALONE Saves us and Keeps us Saved....

Partakers of the Divine Nature
…5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control;and to self-control, perseverance; and toperseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.…
I don't think there is anyone here that disagrees with that. No one here has a dog in that race. Your message is for unbelievers outside of the church.
 
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theefaith

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Saved no!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

Ferris Bueller

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I used to be an Atheist.....if I did not have a “ New Life” , why on EARTH would I spend all of this time in a “ Christian Forum?”
If you did not have a new life I guess you could be here for the same reason the people you think are saying works earn salvation spend lots of time in a Christian Forum. I don't know if you have a new life or not. The point I am making is the accusation of being a 'hypocrite' and 'unbeliever' applies to, both, those who are not relying on the blood of Christ all by itself and those who say they are trusting only the blood but don't have the new life to prove it. Both will stand at the judgment with no works of righteousness to show they have been saved through faith in Christ.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Do you “ REST” in the Gospel , which means that you don’t add any Works to it, or do you add to it with Law- Keeping , etc

First of all, we establish the law (Romans 3:31); it does not have to be added, it’s there in the believers already.

I rested in the true Gospel; having believed it to cleanse me of my past sins (Romans 3:25). The gospel says nothing about a prohibition of adding works after conversion; that’s a saying from the tradition of men who have perverted the gospel with their carnal lustful mind.

I add to my faith in the gospel as commanded in the scripture to make my election sure (2 Peter 1:5-10).

If you keep believing a lie, your calling and election will not be assured.
 

Ferris Bueller

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I “do” have a New Life—— In fact , I am a “New Creation”. How about you ?
I do have a new life. I am a new creation. And because that's true, I know that I'm not trying save myself by my works, and, that I really am relying solely on the blood of Christ to be saved. See, it works both ways. Lack of righteous works is the symptom of, both, the person trying to save themselves by their own works, and the person who says they are relying solely on the blood of Christ but doesn't have works to substantiate that claim.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The person who says they are saved by the blood (alone) but doesn't have a new life is a hypocrite too.

Well a person is saved by faith in the blood alone! Through that they are given a new life.

Teh biggest problem is that the body of Christ has too many people who have put on judges robes and are decidieng how far along that new life people should be according to their legalistic view of Scripture.

I do nto promote sin. I preach holiness with a vengeance. But I also know believers can and do allow the old man supremacy and that causes sin! And I also know that 1 john 1:9 takes care of the issue- and if need be 70X7 in a day!
 
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Ferris Bueller

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First of all, we establish the law (Romans 3:31); it does not have to be added, it’s there in the believers already.

I rested in the true Gospel; having believed it to cleanse me of my past sins (Romans 3:25). The gospel says nothing about a prohibition of adding works after conversion; that’s a saying from the tradition of men who have perverted the gospel with their carnal lustful mind.

I add to my faith in the gospel as commanded in the scripture to make my election sure (2 Peter 1:5-10).

If you keep believing a lie, your calling and election will not be assured.
I think he's arguing that you don't HAVE to add works to your faith to be saved at the judgement. I think he's resisting the necessity to purposely add works of righteousness to faith. But at the same time he says all believers will have works, which instantly negates his argument that you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Identify the 5%. Because I certainly don't want to be peddling toxin.

Well saying one must live a sinless life after being saved or they are not saved. and then agreeing with CL that the blood of Jesus does not wipe out sins you commit after you are saved! Those are two things that are killing your soul and poisoning anyone whom you can connvince that that is true. I cannot stress enough these lies are a blasphemy agains tteh very blood shed your you rredemption. YOu need to toss them out like rotting garbage, for that is what they are!
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Well a person is saved by faith in the blood alone!
A person is saved by God's mercy. PERIOD. Faith is just the way that we access that mercy.

Through that they are given a new life.
And that's what makes righteous works required to be saved when Jesus comes back. They don't earn deliverance from the lake of fire. They show you believe in God's merciful forgiveness of sin. Just as the woman who washed Jesus' feet in Luke 7:47-50 was shown to be forgiven by her acts of love for Jesus.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Teh biggest problem is that the body of Christ has too many people who have put on judges robes and are decidieng how far along that new life people should be according to their legalistic view of Scripture.
It has nothing to do with other people judging the works of other people to see whether or not they are satisfactory to be saved when Jesus comes back. You're either a changed person or you are not. We all have to look in the mirror and see with honesty if we are being conformed to the image of Christ or not. That's just plain truth. It's wrong to categorically call that 'being legalistic'. If someone wants to make it legalistic, that's their problem. That doesn't negate the truth that real believers have real changed lives and we need to examine ourselves for this change so we can know we really are saved and ready to meet Christ when he comes back.
 
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justbyfaith

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Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH and not water baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification

I'm thankful that I didn't gamble my eternity on the idea that I could be saved without water baptism in Jesus' Name...

Now I most certainly believe that a person can be saved merely by calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13) and that this will provide absolute assurance (though it is not in red letters)...whereas it is in red letters that if we believe and are baptized, we shall be saved....and also, the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

So, even if you don't believe that baptism will save you, but that you are already saved; get baptized in the name of Jesus in order that you might receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
 
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justbyfaith

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.It’s Nothing But The Blood....just like the Song sings...

Yes....and the blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

He came to Earth to Pour out His Life to Save Mankind From their Sins...
Because I Believe these things, I “do” have a New Life—— In fact , I am a “New Creation”

You are the same person who previously said that you believe everyone has thoughts that would shame hell with every other thought, including your own...I would say that your definition of a "new creation" is weighed in the balances and found wanting...

But yet He misquoted His own word to you! That just cannot be!

What exactly did Jesus say that was misquoting His own word?...

Are you suggesting that I stop taking my medicine?

Well saying one must live a sinless life after being saved or they are not saved.

It is not required that a man live a sinless life after being saved, from my estimation (1 John 2:1)....however, being saved will most assuredly result in walking in freedom and victory over sin...so, if someone sins after being saved, 2 Corinthians 13:5 ought to come into the picture.

and then agreeing with CL that the blood of Jesus does not wipe out sins you commit after you are saved!

I do not wholly agree with that concept. I do believe that if we sin after coming to faith in Christ, that confessing our sins will in fact bring forgiveness. However, if you do not confess your sins, the blood of Jesus does not cover that sin until you confess it.

And also, willful sins are not on the table as being forgivable...they will not necessarily place a man in hell...they may actually be chastened by the Lord and punished according to Amos 3:2 and Hebrews 12:6...but they are not forgiven so that there will be no consequences in this life (or sometimes even in the next).
 
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mailmandan

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I'm thankful that I didn't gamble my eternity on the idea that I could be saved without water baptism in Jesus' Name...
I’m glad that I did not gamble my eternity on believing a perverted water gospel. Instead, I chose to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed. I was water baptized “after” I believed the gospel and was saved.
 

BloodBought 1953

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that comes from baptism

Baptism!

Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)


Does anybody else out there ignore these giant “Scripture Walls”......
 

justbyfaith

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I’m glad that I did not gamble my eternity on believing a perverted water gospel. Instead, I chose to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

If you truly trust in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as that which saves you, then you would not only identify with Him in those things with water baptism but you would not fight against others also identifying with Him in those things through water baptism.

Because it only saves you if you identify with it.

You may have died before being baptized but you were not yet resurrected unto a walk of newness of life until after you came up out of the water.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed. I was water baptized “after” I believed the gospel and was saved.

You were saved after when you came up out of the water; the only "salvation" you experienced before that was death to self; and ahead of you was to be buried and risen from death.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

So then, our faith in Jesus Christ includes faith in the operation of God; this is the operation that is spoken of in Ezekiel 36:25-27 concerning rantizo; and baptizo is a step above rantizo so I think that it will accomplish just as much if not more in the life of the recipient.

It would seem that Ezekiel 36:25-27 does indeed speak of a regeneration and renewing that takes place as the result of having been sprinkled with water...the removing of a heart of stone and a replacing of it with an heart of flesh...all as the result of the Lord "sprinkling clean water on you."
 

BreadOfLife

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there are none as Jesus appoints them.
And Jesus told His Apostles . . .

John 20:21-23
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.

WHAT did the Father send the Son to do - and WHAT was the Son sending His Apostles to do?