"O Canada.."

[BreadOfLife]

Well, for the past ten years I read the newspaper almost daily, but of course it’s possible that I missed out on some vital news there. So care to enlighten me then what event you were referring to?

Ummmm, this was BIG news during the Obama regime . . .
Why Obama won't say 'radical Islamic terrorist' - USA Today

I should think the Ontario Human rights code covers all religions. However schools don’t need to especially accommodate Jewish and Christian religious needs, because - supposing that there is no school in Canada on Saturdays and Sundays – they already see to it that school doesn't interfere with typical Jewish and Christian prayer times.

Sooooo, Christian and Jewish prayers ARE allowed in Canadian schools - along with Islamic prayers?
If that's the case - then, you have a valid point and I stand corrected.

As I saw it I just replied to a remark you made about Muslims in Canada in general, you know, those who are allowed to pray in school on Fridays .

No - I was referring to a country's FIRST responsibility - and that is to its citizens.

Concerning refugees: if you check them out you’ll find that all of the points about refugees in the OP’s pamphlet are either very distorted or plainly wrong. For example: Fact check: Do refugees get more financial help than Canadian pensioners?
All in all the OP is exactly the kind of thing your Pope meant when he talked about “anti-immigration rhetoric” Don't fall for it.
Pope Francis Makes New Year Appeal to Welcome Migrants

I’m first and furthermost a citizen of God’s Kingdom and as such it is my responsibility to speak out for "the least" in any given society. Holding the passport of a Western democracy I don’t want my government to be just concerned about the well-being of its own citizens, but also to uphold universal human rights. Whenever my government abandons those it doesn't have my support.[/QUOTE]
And the point that YOU forget, as you sit in judgement of concerned citizens is that matters of state should be left to state - and matters of God should be left up to God.

This is what Jesus taught:
Matthew 22:21
Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

And Paul echoed that teaching . . .
Romans 13:1
"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

Universal rights are NOT the issue here. The issue here is favoritism above the citizens. It's the same here in the US with illegal Immigration and the radical left endowing them with "special" rights.
They deserve human rights like everybody else - but NOT the right to bypass and violate our laws. The same goes for Canada or any other country's sovreighnty.

Favoritism is nothing more than bias . . .

 

[junobet]

Ummmm, this was BIG news during the Obama regime . . .
Why Obama won't say 'radical Islamic terrorist' - USA Today

Thanks. That wasn’t big news over here. Probably because European media agreed with this statement of Obama: “"The truth of this matter is that this is an issue that has been sort of manufactured". Apparently Obama didn’t call ISIS “radical Islamic terrorists” for the same reason that one wouldn’t really want to call the Lord’s Resistance Army “radical Christian terrorists”. The Lord’s Resistance Army would probably be pleased if you called them that, but it wouldn’t really do justice to Christianity, would it? Doesn’t mean Obama was soft on terrorism. As I said: he ordered more drone strikes than any other President.

Sooooo, Christian and Jewish prayers ARE allowed in Canadian schools - along with Islamic prayers?
If that's the case - then, you have a valid point and I stand corrected.

No - I was referring to a country's FIRST responsibility - and that is to its citizens.

Concerning refugees: if you check them out you’ll find that all of the points about refugees in the OP’s pamphlet are either very distorted or plainly wrong. For example: Fact check: Do refugees get more financial help than Canadian pensioners?
All in all the OP is exactly the kind of thing your Pope meant when he talked about “anti-immigration rhetoric” Don't fall for it.
Pope Francis Makes New Year Appeal to Welcome Migrants

I’m first and furthermost a citizen of God’s Kingdom and as such it is my responsibility to speak out for "the least" in any given society. Holding the passport of a Western democracy I don’t want my government to be just concerned about the well-being of its own citizens, but also to uphold universal human rights. Whenever my government abandons those it doesn't have my support.
And the point that YOU forget, as you sit in judgement of concerned citizens is that matters of state should be left to state - and matters of God should be left up to God.

This is what Jesus taught:
Matthew 22:21
Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

And Paul echoed that teaching . . .
Romans 13:1
"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

Universal rights are NOT the issue here. The issue here is favoritism above the citizens. It's the same here in the US with illegal Immigration and the radical left endowing them with "special" rights.
They deserve human rights like everybody else - but NOT the right to bypass and violate our laws. The same goes for Canada or any other country's sovreighnty.

Favoritism is nothing more than bias . . .

You would have a point if refugees/immigrants in Canada or the US were allowed to pay less taxes, go over red lights and not go to prison for murder. None of this is the case. The favouritism you are talking about exists only in your head. Question is why would you be jealous of people who are among the poorest of the poor? Other than maybe for the reason that God is clearly biased in favour of them (see for example Luke 16:19-31)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks. That wasn’t big news over here. Probably because European media agreed with this statement of Obama: “"The truth of this matter is that this is an issue that has been sort of manufactured". Apparently Obama didn’t call ISIS “radical Islamic terrorists” for the same reason that one wouldn’t really want to call the Lord’s Resistance Army “radical Christian terrorists”. The Lord’s Resistance Army would probably be pleased if you called them that, but it wouldn’t really do justice to Christianity, would it? Doesn’t mean Obama was soft on terrorism. As I said: he ordered more drone strikes than any other President.

Yes, he was VERY soft on terrorism. He wanted to try criminals of War - NOT in war tribunals - but through the American court system because you're more likely to get a softer jury through the court system.. No other President in American history attempted this because it is simply inappropriate.

Don't tell me about Obama - I LIVED through his joke of a presidency for 8 long years.

You would have a point if refugees/immigrants in Canada or the US were allowed to pay less taxes, go over red lights and not go to prison for murder. None of this is the case. The favouritism you are talking about exists only in your head. Question is why would you be jealous of people who are among the poorest of the poor? Other than maybe for the reason that God is clearly biased in favour of them (see for example Luke 16:19-31)

Once again - ANY favoritism is wrong - be it financial, religious or legal.
If Muslims are indeed allowed to pray where Canadian citizens of other religions are NOT - then this is abominable.

 

[junobet]

Yes, he was VERY soft on terrorism. He wanted to try criminals of War - NOT in war tribunals - but through the American court system because you're more likely to get a softer jury through the court system.. No other President in American history attempted this because it is simply inappropriate.

Don't tell me about Obama - I LIVED through his joke of a presidency for 8 long years.

I guess you never considered the possibility that Obama did that because terrorists are generally not given the status of legal combatants in a war. And if those detained in Guantanamo had been given the legal status of prisoners of war, the USA would have quite obviously violated the Geneva Conventions. As it is, the very existence of Guantanamo prison shows that terrorism has won if its intend was to fight Western values: with the instalment of Guantanamo prison these values have been thoroughly given up for all the world to see.

Once again - ANY favoritism is wrong - be it financial, religious or legal.
If Muslims are indeed allowed to pray where Canadian citizens of other religions are NOT - then this is abominable.

Again: Christians don’t have to pray at special times. If there’s a special day for prayer for us, it would traditionally be on Sundays. And on Sundays Canadian schools are closed anyway. So your religious prayer needs would be fully met, whatever. This doesn’t quite fit, but somehow you come across like a meat eater who complains about being discriminated against because the school cafeteria has introduced a vegetarian option!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess you never considered the possibility that Obama did that because terrorists are generally not given the status of legal combatants in a war. And if those detained in Guantanamo had been given the legal status of prisoners of war, the USA would have quite obviously violated the Geneva Conventions. As it is, the very existence of Guantanamo prison shows that terrorism has won if its intend was to fight Western values: with the instalment of Guantanamo prison these values have been thoroughly given up for all the world to see.

And yet, there were NO charges or trial at the Hague for violations of the Geneva Convention - were there?
Your position is redolent of the stench of the Obama's sycophants in the left wing media . . .

Again: Christians don’t have to pray at special times. If there’s a special day for prayer for us, it would traditionally be on Sundays. And on Sundays Canadian schools are closed anyway. So your religious prayer needs would be fully met, whatever. This doesn’t quite fit, but somehow you come across like a meat eater who complains about being discriminated against because the school cafeteria has introduced a vegetarian option!

Christians pray in the morning.
We pray before each meal.
We pray before we take a test.
We pray before we have to stand before a speeding fastball during physical education.
We pray during lunch and recess.

Don't give me this garbage that ONLY Muslims have "special" prayer needs.
It makes you sound elitist - if not woefully-ignorant . . .

 

[Helen]

And yet, there were NO charges or trial at the Hague for violations of the Geneva Convention - were there?
Your position is redolent of the stench of the Obama's sycophants in the left wing media . . .

Christians pray in the morning.
We pray before each meal.
We pray before we take a test.
We pray before we have to stand before a speeding fastball during physical education.
We pray during lunch and recess.

Don't give me this garbage that ONLY Muslims have "special" prayer needs.
It makes you sound elitist - if not woefully-ignorant . . .

Excellent...well said BOL. :)

I don't know who this woman is...but she very obviously has an agenda.

 

[junobet]

And yet, there were NO charges or trial at the Hague for violations of the Geneva Convention - were there?

Many people including myself would have loved to see Bush and Co. stand trial at the Hague. Alas, US-Americans can’t stand trial there, the USA never ratified the Rome Statue which founded the International Criminal Court. American exceptionalism, you know. A bit sad what became of the US ever since they drove on the founding of the UN. What was that again, you said about favouritism a couple of posts above?

Your position is redolent of the stench of the Obama's sycophants in the left wing media . . .

You conveniently overlooked that I staunchly criticized Obama for his drone-strikes. For those I wouldn’t mind seeing him stand trial in the Hague as well.


However, if you talk of his sycophants, do you mean people like your very own Pope? Vatican asks US to find 'humanitarian solution' for Guantánamo prisoners

Seems his predecessor also came to a rather different assessment of Guantanamo than you do: Human dignity not being fully respected in Guantanamo prison says Cardinal Martino

Christians pray in the morning.
We pray before each meal.
We pray before we take a test.
We pray before we have to stand before a speeding fastball during physical education.
We pray during lunch and recess.

*Sigh* I didn’t say Christians don’t have prayer needs or that we don’t pray. But unlike Muslims we don’t have special times at which we are requested to pray in certain ways. Unless that is if you want to see the Catholic expectation to show up for Mass on Sundays as that. And as far as I’m aware of all Western schools including Canada’s don’t teach on Sundays.

I went to a secular secondary school: unlike in my confessional primary school there were no crosses in classrooms and no school services. Yet nothing hindered me from praying long and hard before each dreaded math-exam. What should hinder Canadian children on Canadian secular schools to do the same?

​

Don't give me this garbage that ONLY Muslims have "special" prayer needs.
It makes you sound elitist - if not woefully-ignorant . . .

I have the feeling I come across as elitist to you, because I actually try to check out facts before blurting out opinions. Yepp, sadly this is terribly out-fashioned these days. Instead – as exemplified in the OP - the father of lies is having a real good time, ‘informing’ even some Christians.

 

[junobet]

Excellent...well said BOL. :)

I don't know who this woman is...but she very obviously has an agenda.

Yes, quite obviously “this woman” has an agenda: she tries to be a disciple of Christ and to encourage others to do the same. As a disciple of Christ one does not subscribe to a particular political side. One tries to follow the Lord’s great commandment, which sums up all others, including that commandment not to bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Your OP on the other hand clearly serves a particular political agenda. Worse: it is full of lies, manipulated half-truths and malicious slander.

 

[Helen]

As a disciple of Christ one does not subscribe to a particular political side.

Haha! You are kidding...look how many posts you have written here.
I have two, pull the other leg too.
Yes, I posted the Opening Post...but check the thread...you have gone on and on about it...I have not...count my posts here, then count yours!!
Your selfrighteousness is showing...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Many people including myself would have loved to see Bush and Co. stand trial at the Hague. Alas, US-Americans can’t stand trial there, the USA never ratified the Rome Statue which founded the International Criminal Court. American exceptionalism, you know. A bit sad what became of the US ever since they drove on the founding of the UN. What was that again, you said about favouritism a couple of posts above?

Nice dodge . . .

You were whining about the treatment that the terrorist murderers received at Guantanamo Bay and beyond - yet you couldn't pint to a trial or charges brought against the US.
All you did was whine further about your disapproval of the Bush Administration.

You conveniently overlooked that I staunchly criticized Obama for his drone-strikes. For those I wouldn’t mind seeing him stand trial in the Hague as well.

However, if you talk of his sycophants, do you mean people like your very own Pope? Vatican asks US to find 'humanitarian solution' for Guantánamo prisoners

Seems his predecessor also came to a rather different assessment of Guantanamo than you do: Human dignity not being fully respected in Guantanamo prison says Cardinal Martino

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...ed_in_guantanamo_prison_says_cardinal_martino
How does this make the Pope and Bishop Martino "sycophants"??
They're entitled to object to what they perceive as human rights violations. They just happen to be wrong in this case.

*Sigh* I didn’t say Christians don’t have prayer needs or that we don’t pray. But unlike Muslims we don’t have special times at which we are requested to pray in certain ways. Unless that is if you want to see the Catholic expectation to show up for Mass on Sundays as that. And as far as I’m aware of all Western schools including Canada’s don’t teach on Sundays.

I went to a secular secondary school: unlike in my confessional primary school there were no crosses in classrooms and no school services. Yet nothing hindered me from praying long and hard before each dreaded math-exam. What should hinder Canadian children on Canadian secular schools to do the same?

Being CAUGHT praying.

Drugs aren't allowed in schools either - but I could pop pills all day long without being caught.
That doesn't mean that it is tolerated. There have been cases where students were punished for praying in school because of the complete ban against it.

As to your claim that Christians don't have special times that we are asked to pray - that is complete nonsense.
As a Catholic, I am required to give thanks in prayer before each meal.

I have the feeling I come across as elitist to you, because I actually try to check out facts before blurting out opinions. Yepp, sadly this is terribly out-fashioned these days. Instead – as exemplified in the OP - the father of lies is having a real good time, ‘informing’ even some Christians.

Leftists are always whining about being picked on.
Maybe if you guys did your homework, you would see that you're entitled to your own opinions - but NOT your own facts . . .

 

[junobet]

Nice dodge . . .

You were whining about the treatment that the terrorist murderers received at Guantanamo Bay and beyond - yet you couldn't pint to a trial or charges brought against the US.
All you did was whine further about your disapproval of the Bush Administration.
How does this make the Pope and Bishop Martino "sycophants"??
They're entitled to object to what they perceive as human rights violations. They just happen to be wrong in this case.

God decides whether you or the leaderships of our respective churches and I are right. But Romans 12:17-21 makes me think that God’s more likely to be on Pope Benedict, Pope Francis’s side than yours in the question of how to evaluate the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo.

Being CAUGHT praying.

Drugs aren't allowed in schools either - but I could pop pills all day long without being caught.
That doesn't mean that it is tolerated. There have been cases where students were punished for praying in school because of the complete ban against it.

As to your claim that Christians don't have special times that we are asked to pray - that is complete nonsense.
As a Catholic, I am required to give thanks in prayer before each meal.

Of course: when a Canadian Student is caught folding his hands before opening his lunch-box, he’ll be expelled immediately! There have also been reports of students hovering in the air on broomsticks hailing Trudeau in spite of hovering in the air on broomsticks being completely banned in Canadian schools. And you will have to believe that this is so because I say so, no further back-up required.

Leftists

are always whining about being picked on.
Maybe if you guys did your homework, you would see that you're entitled to your own opinions - but NOT your own facts . . .

And I’m the one taking political sides here, whereas you only serve God and always do your research.

 

[junobet]

Haha! You are kidding...look how many posts you have written here.
I have two, pull the other leg too.
Yes, I posted the Opening Post...but check the thread...you have gone on and on about it...I have not...count my posts here, then count yours!!

So you open a thread in the hope that nobody will want to discuss its contents? And you think it is OK to post wild accusations without bothering to back them up?

Your selfrighteousness is showing...

I’m afraid I'm self-righteous in very many ways, but none of these ways have been showing here. Did I ever deny proven facts when they don’t fit my most cherished prejudices? I don’t think so. Do I blindly support a specific political side, no matter what it’s up to? No.

And to demonstrate the latter to you I’ll gladly hand you a point, that you can truly criticize Trudeau for: his government approved the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain pipeline expansion in spite of local concerns about its spilling prevention. Oh, but I forgot: the political side you’re in bed with doesn’t give a damn about the protection of God’s creation, so neither do you, right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

God decides whether you or the leaderships of our respective churches and I are right. But Romans 12:17-21 makes me think that God’s more likely to be on Pope Benedict, Pope Francis’s side than yours in the question of how to evaluate the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo.

Leave it to YOU to pervert another passage of Scripture.
Paul is NOT speaking of war here.

Remember that ALL Scripture must harmonize.
Ecc. 3:33 tells us that there is: "a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,"

If you did your homework, you would probably find out that you DON'T have much in common with Pope Francis . . .

Of course: when a Canadian Student is caught folding his hands before opening his lunch-box, he’ll be expelled immediately! There have also been reports of students hovering in the air on broomsticks hailing Trudeau in spite of hovering in the air on broomsticks being completely banned in Canadian schools. And you will have to believe that this is so because I say so, no further back-up required.

Typical leftist denial.
Hiding your head in the sand doesn't make the problem "vanish" . . .

People are constantly being harassed for public prayer. A perfect example is the 12 kids in Washington State who were suspended for having a prayer group in school.

And I’m the one taking political sides here, whereas you only serve God and always do your research.

MOREso thana you - yes . . .

 

[junobet]

Leave it to YOU to pervert another passage of Scripture.
Paul is NOT speaking of war here.

Remember that ALL Scripture must harmonize.
Ecc. 3:33 tells us that there is: "a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,"

If you did your homework, you would probably find out that you DON'T have much in common with Pope Francis . . .

Typical leftist denial.
Hiding your head in the sand doesn't make the problem "vanish" . . .

People are constantly being harassed for public prayer. A perfect example is the 12 kids in Washington State who were suspended for having a prayer group in school.

MOREso thana you - yes . . .

Well, one thing I have in common with all Popes I consciously remember, is that we’re against the death penalty. Guess, you’ll tell me that John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis perverted scripture.

A fine Catholic you are.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, one thing I have in common with all Popes I consciously remember, is that we’re against the death penalty. Guess, you’ll tell me that John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis perverted scripture.

A fine Catholic you are.

And AGAIN you have failed to do your homework.

The death penalty is not forbidden in Catholic teaching - and neither did St. John Paul II forbid it. He agreed that the death penalty must only be practiced if there is NO other way of stopping the prisoner from causing harm to others.

Nice TRY - but NO cigar . . .

 

[junobet]

And AGAIN you have failed to do your homework.

The death penalty is not forbidden in Catholic teaching - and neither did St. John Paul II forbid it. He agreed that the death penalty must only be practiced if there is NO other way of stopping the prisoner from causing harm to others.

Nice TRY - but NO cigar . . .

Sure, I kind of guessed you’d bring this argument up. Next thing you’re probably going to try to tell me is that US prisons aren’t safe and that thus John Paul II was wrong when he said: “the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity ‘are very rare, if not practically non-existent.’”

Pope Francis: The death penalty is contrary to the Gospel



BOL, I don’t think this conversation will bring us any further. I shall include you in my prayers. May the Lord stop hardening your heart.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure, I kind of guessed you’d bring this argument up. Next thing you’re probably going to try to tell me is that US prisons aren’t safe and that thus John Paul II was wrong when he said: “the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity ‘are very rare, if not practically non-existent.’”

Pope Francis: The death penalty is contrary to the Gospel

BOL, I don’t think this conversation will bring us any further. I shall include you in my prayers. May the Lord stop hardening your heart.

Look - you're the one who derailed this conversation into a squabble about the Death Penalty.
It was originally a conversation about the governments abdication of its loyalty and responsibility to it's citizens over its resident aliens.

If you can't argue the facts and instead attempt to judge my heart, then you're right - this conversation HAS lost its purpose.
A little parting advice: Take a vacation from the mainstream media and do some homework for a change . . .