Obedience of you all...

[CoreIssue]

Actually anything less than total sanctification as the goal is to frustrate the grace of God. God gives us grace so that we can fully do His will. His grace is SUFFICIENT for the task of a full sanctification.

I was clear striving to sanctification is the goal. But it will not be achieved until the rapture.

 

[CoreIssue]

Also, edited post #10 (Obedience of you all...)

When we are born again all our sins, past, present are forgotten as if they never happen.

What you are saying is what the apostles spoke against as in continuously nailing Christ to the cross again.

Does that mean we don't sin in this physical life? Absolutely not and Paul states that.

 

[justbyfaith]

I was clear striving to sanctification is the goal. But it will not be achieved until the rapture.

Indeed,
1Jo 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

It is saying that our hope in the work that will take place in us at the rapture has the effect of doing that work in us before it happens; because we hope in it. If your hope in the rapture doesn't sanctify you, I would wager it isn't a true hope.

When we are born again all our sins, past, present are forgotten as if they never happen.

What you are saying is what the apostles spoke against as in continuously nailing Christ to the cross again.

Does that mean we don't sin in this physical life? Absolutely not and Paul states that.

I'm not saying that there isn't forgiveness. However, sanctification is not only positional, it is practical:

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:17, For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18, Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[CoreIssue]

Indeed,
1Jo 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

It is saying that our hope in the work that will take place in us at the rapture has the effect of doing that work in us before it happens; because we hope in it. If your hope in the rapture doesn't sanctify you, I would wager it isn't a true hope.



I'm not saying that there isn't forgiveness. However, sanctification is not only positional, it is practical:

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:17, For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18, Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,a]">[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Read carefully. It says shall, not might.

This is talking about the rapture when Christ appears then we shall be pure. But not in this fleshly life.

Romans 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

What your doing is shopping cart theology. You are not considering the whole Bible.

The new nature of the born again spirit at war with the old nature flesh.

Our spirits do not. Our flesh does not rule the roost. Our minds were these two natures fight for control. Sometimes one wins and sometimes the other wins.

For sure you do not have total sanctification. I have seen you lash out on this forum unjustly.

 

[charity]

For to this end also did I write,
that I might know the proof of you,
whether ye be obedient in all things.
(2 Cor 2:9)
And his inward affection is more abundant toward you,
whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all,
how with fear and trembling ye received him.'
(2 Cor 7:15)

Hello @justbyfaith,

These quotations you have made, are the words of Paul written following a letter of admonition that he had sent to the Corinthian church: and the obedience they were being commended for, was in relation to the effect that his letter had had upon them; for it had resulted in their obedience. Their 'godly sorrow' had worked repentance in them. and they sought to clear themselves. (2 Cor. 7:10-11) This assembly had allowed some shameful things to take place among them, and they had been severely reprimanded by Paul, they were not the best assembly to quote as examples of obedience in the sense that you wish to emphasise.

I am a sinner, saved by grace, and I praise God for the sacrifice of God, in Christ, for me. That it was an all-sufficient sacrifice, a finished work, so that I can stand before God, in the full light of His holiness, as one who is Holy and without blame. Not because of anything I can do, or ever will do, but because of the shed blood of Christ my Saviour. My sins are all forgiven, I have been justified and sanctified, and the righteousness of God has been reckoned to me in Christ Jesus my Lord: and nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. That is my standing before God in Christ.

That is what I reckon on daily, that I have died with Christ, therefore am dead to sin and alive unto God, so I can now walk in newness of life before the Father, in Him.

The Holy Spirit's sword reveals the sin within, and exposes the thoughts and intents of the heart, for we are walking in the light of God's presence. But if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us. Sin is IN us, but we are not IN sin. For we are in Christ, and our hearts desire is to walk worthy of Him. To the glory of His Name.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[justbyfaith]

Hello @justbyfaith,

These quotations you have made, are the words of Paul written following a letter of admonition that he had sent to the Corinthian church: and the obedience they were being commended for, was in relation to the effect that his letter had had upon them; for it had resulted in their obedience. Their 'godly sorrow' had worked repentance in them. and they sought to clear themselves. (2 Cor. 7:10-11) This assembly had allowed some shameful things to take place among them, and they had been severely reprimanded by Paul, they were not the best assembly to quote as examples of obedience in the sense that you wish to emphasise.

I am a sinner, saved by grace, and I praise God for the sacrifice of God, in Christ, for me. That it was an all-sufficient sacrifice, a finished work, so that I can stand before God, in the full light of His holiness, as one who is Holy and without blame. Not because of anything I can do, or ever will do, but because of the shed blood of Christ my Saviour. My sins are all forgiven, I have been justified and sanctified, and the righteousness of God has been reckoned to me in Christ Jesus my Lord: and nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. That is my standing before God in Christ.

That is what I reckon on daily, that I have died with Christ, therefore am dead to sin and alive unto God, so I can now walk in newness of life before the Father, in Him.

The Holy Spirit's sword reveals the sin within, and exposes the thoughts and intents of the heart, for we are walking in the light of God's presence. But if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us. Sin is IN us, but we are not IN sin. For we are in Christ, and our hearts desire is to walk worthy of Him. To the glory of His Name.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,

Amen to all of that.

I am not implying in any way that those who do not have a perfect walk are not forgiven if they believe in Jesus; but I am saying that as our conscience afflicts us when we do sin, that it is good news that it is not an impossibility that we should be able to walk in freedom and victory over sin in the practical sense, in our daily lives.

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 3:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,a]">[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Read carefully. It says shall, not might.

This is talking about the rapture when Christ appears then we shall be pure. But not in this fleshly life.

Romans 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

What your doing is shopping cart theology. You are not considering the whole Bible.

The new nature of the born again spirit at war with the old nature flesh.

Our spirits do not. Our flesh does not rule the roost. Our minds were these two natures fight for control. Sometimes one wins and sometimes the other wins.

For sure you do not have total sanctification. I have seen you lash out on this forum unjustly.

Hi.

You need to see Romans 7:14-25 from the perspective of Romans 7:14 as compared to 1 Corinthians 3:1-4.

Also, the whole passage needs to be seen in light of 1 Corinthians 9:22. Paul is using a literary tactic in which he identifies himself with the carnal believer; but it is clear from other passages that there is another condition for the believer to abide in (spiritual).

As born again believers, we are not to abide in Romans 7 but we are to graduate over into Romans 8.

On the other note, "Lashing out against" i.e. condemning, those whose tongues have risen up against me in judgment is not necessarily a sin. It is my heritage as a servant of the LORD.

Concerning 1 John 3:2-3, I believe that you are ignoring verse 3.

But of course, I am the one who is utilizing shopping cart theology <edited in after reading your response in a below post>:

Shopping cart theology only picks up versus it feels can be forced to comply with their theology.

.

I would suggest letting your eyes fall on it for a few minutes and asking the Lord what it means. Then get back to me. Because I believe that He showed me that it means that He does in advance what we are looking for in the hope that is spoken of in those verses; because of that hope.

 

[justbyfaith]

These quotations you have made, are the words of Paul written following a letter of admonition that he had sent to the Corinthian church: and the obedience they were being commended for, was in relation to the effect that his letter had had upon them; for it had resulted in their obedience. Their 'godly sorrow' had worked repentance in them. and they sought to clear themselves. (2 Cor. 7:10-11) This assembly had allowed some shameful things to take place among them, and they had been severely reprimanded by Paul, they were not the best assembly to quote as examples of obedience in the sense that you wish to emphasise.

By the time you get to chapter 9, it becomes clear that their obedience was evident to the one whom Paul had sent to them to make assessment of their character (Titus).

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi.

You need to see Romans 7:14-25 from the perspective of Romans 7:14 as compared to 1 Corinthians 3:1-4.

Also, the whole passage needs to be seen in light of 1 Corinthians 9:22. Paul is using a literary tactic in which he identifies himself with the carnal believer; but it is clear from other passages that there is another condition for the believer to abide in (spiritual).

As born again believers, we are not to abide in Romans 7 but we are to graduate over into Romans 8.

On the other note, "Lashing out against" i.e. condemning, those whose tongues have risen up against me in judgment is not necessarily a sin. It is my heritage as a servant of the LORD.

Concerning 1 John 3:2-3, I believe that you are ignoring verse 3. I would suggest letting your eyes fall on it for a few minutes and asking the Lord what it means. Then get back to me. Because I believe that He showed me that it means that He does in advance what we are looking for in the hope that is spoken of in those verses; because of that hope.

Everything said in the Bible needs to conform to everything else said in the Bible.

Shopping cart theology only picks up versus it feels can be forced to comply with their theology.

But at their judgment on you is biblically correct then you send and not heeding it.

Not to mention your anger exceeded the crime Even if it were a crime. Which is a sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not to mention your anger exceeded the crime

I don't think that it did; but if it did, it was because of an underlying issue of what is going on outside of the internet: not that I am excused by this; but it is the account that I give to you while being judged by you on the issue. I did go before the Lord in repentance on both issues and He is dealing with me. But I would say to you that moral failure on the part of the one who preaches entire sanctification does not necessarily mean that it cannot be obtained; it just means that the preacher is also seeking with you the thing that he is preaching to you. As it is written,

1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Everything said in the Bible needs to conform to everything else said in the Bible.

Indeed. Therefore I suggest you look at the topical context that I gave for Romans 7:14-25 and see if it bears witness to you whether it is the doctrine/truth that is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1).

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't think that it did; but if it did, it was because of an underlying issue of what is going on outside of the internet: not that I am excused by this; but it is the account that I give to you while being judged by you on the issue. I did go before the Lord in repentance on both issues and He is dealing with me. But I would say to you that moral failure on the part of the one who preaches entire sanctification does not necessarily mean that it cannot be obtained; it just means that the preacher is also seeking with you the thing that he is preaching to you. As it is written,

1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.



Indeed. Therefore I suggest you look at the topical context that I gave for Romans 7:14-25 and see if it bears witness to you whether it is the doctrine/truth that is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1).

You miss my point. I wasn't judging you, I was just pointing out how it relates to this whole entire sanctification issue.

If someone were totally sanctified they would not do anything they need to repent for.

Then when they sin it shows my point about the old nature and sin. And show it they will since every believer does.

Just wanting you to see the problem with this belief.

 

[justbyfaith]

If someone were totally sanctified they would do anything they need to repent for.

This sentence is coming across to me as gibberish, maybe you could repeat yourself using different words.

 

[CoreIssue]

This sentence is coming across to me as gibberish, maybe you could repeat yourself using different words.

I missed editing it. Will do so now.

 

[justbyfaith]

If someone were totally sanctified they would not do anything they need to repent for.

But I would say to you that moral failure on the part of the one who preaches entire sanctification does not necessarily mean that it cannot be obtained; it just means that the preacher is also seeking with you the thing that he is preaching to you. As it is written,

1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[marksman]

Very likely a false teacher.

He must be if he disagrees with you.

 

[justbyfaith]

He must be if he disagrees with you.

No; if he disagrees with me he must obviously be true.

I am being facetious.

I know that I have not been behaving an exemplary Christian life recently in public view; but I do believe that the Lord inspired me to write the OP. I need to heed it just as much as any of you.

 

[marks]

You are preaching Total Sanctification, which is a false doctrine.

Hi CoreIssue,

May I ask, what sin is it that you must commit?

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

Actually anything less than total sanctification as the goal is to frustrate the grace of God. God gives us grace so that we can fully do His will. His grace is SUFFICIENT for the task of a full sanctification.

I said at the end of the day we say the same thing. There it is.

Much love!

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi CoreIssue,

May I ask, what sin is it that you must commit?

Much love!
mark

Sorry, not understanding your question.

 

[marks]

Sanctification is received.

Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"

1 Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

If it is received, it is received by faith as a gift from God.

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We stand in grace, and we enter that grace by faith in Jesus, and it is through Him, Jesus, that we stand.

From this place of righteousness and safety, standing in grace, we can then go on to live out God's love for everyone through our lives. Living in love has no legal restriction from God. Living from the fruit of the Spirit has no legal governance.

Ephesians 5:22-23
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And in this life, there is nothing to be condemned.

The question here is, how much of my life can I spending living Christ's life? Some of it? All of it?

What do you believe? Who sanctifies us? If it is in fact God, then I have to ask, what is it that He wants of me?

Much love!
Mark