Oh Boy! Seeing So Much!

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stunnedbygrace

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Bottom line it seems is that we will get from (of?) God as much as we "study to show ourselves approved" , "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you"...not that others that do not have good study habits or desires to dig deeper are not saved. God simply meets us, blesses us and grows us all where we are at right now.
For myself personally, I desire greatly to become more fervent in study, not just "reading", and to understand the deeper things of God especially as I have no other happenings in my life that demand my time right now and it should be that focus should be TOTALLY on Christ and serving Him as best I can either through prayer, study so as to be led better and hopefully to learn how to actually "walk" in His Spirit more and more until I "get it". TRUST is key.
I can’t really talk about studying. I really don’t do much of it. God teaches me….He just doesn’t really do it by me learning Hebrew, Greek, having studious…rules for how to read. He does it by recalling verses to my mind when He’s teaching/showing me something. He probably just does it different for different people.
I do sometimes look up all verses pertaining to a certain thing…I guess that’s called study?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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You said, if you are in holiness, one strike and you're out, right? What would that look like? If you are in holiness, what would be a "strike" that would take you out of holiness? Because the way I'm thinking, if God has caused you to be holy, so that all you think and do is righteous, from His Spirit, in agreement with His Way, what would be the sin that would interfere with holiness, to take you out of it?

If you are made holy by God, you won't sin, so nothing ends that holiness. Unless God releases you Himself. If He put you there, and being there means you aren't sinning, what is to take you out?

Much love!
The one strike thing is like…Moses not allowed to enter the promised land for failing to properly show Gods holiness. Or annais/saphira struck dead for trying to lie to a man walking in that holiness of God. Or Uzzah struck dead for mishandling the ark.

As to the rest of what you say here, you are thinking of holiness as something very different than I see it. You are seeing it as a way God makes you rather than a place where He is that He takes you to.
 

marks

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As to the rest of what you say here, you are thinking of holiness as something very different than I see it. You are seeing it as a way God makes you rather than a place where He is that He takes you to.
Can you elaborate?

To me this seems like the difference between process - He brings you to where He is - and result - you become sanctified.

Much love!
 
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marks

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The one strike thing is like…Moses not allowed to enter the promised land for failing to properly show Gods holiness. Or annais/saphira struck dead for trying to lie to a man walking in that holiness of God. Or Uzzah struck dead for mishandling the ark.

I see these differently. I don't see that to be the universal, or even the common experience.

Mostly the thing I don't understand is if you have been brought into holiness, how would you disqualify yourself? Considering you've been brought into holiness? The one who is residing in God's holiness, which of them would place their hand on the ark? Lie to the Holy Spirit? That's not holiness. Do you see the conflict I see?

Much love!
 

marks

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And we need to keep in mind,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul's self assessment was that even though his conscience was clear, yet still he wouldn't say that he was justified, because only Jesus has the insight to render true judgment.

Paul did not assess himself to be absolutely without sin, and declared himself unqualified to actually know.

Can we be any different?

Much love!
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I see these differently. I don't see that to be the universal, or even the common experience.

Mostly the thing I don't understand is if you have been brought into holiness, how would you disqualify yourself? Considering you've been brought into holiness? The one who is residing in God's holiness, which of them would place their hand on the ark? Lie to the Holy Spirit? That's not holiness. Do you see the conflict I see?

Much love!
Well…did the fallen angels used to be in Gods holy Presence? How did they disqualify themselves…?
So no, I don’t see the conflict you see.
 

stunnedbygrace

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And we need to keep in mind,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul's self assessment was that even though his conscience was clear, yet still he wouldn't say that he was justified, because only Jesus has the insight to render true judgment.

Paul did not assess himself to be absolutely without sin, and declared himself unqualified to actually know.

Can we be any different?

Much love!
That’s a huge change in what I’ve heard you say in the past!
I agree. But in order to even try to have the conversation, you absolutely HAVE to let men keep “positional righteousness” or they’ll flip out so bad thinking you’re trying to take from them that you won’t even be able to HAVE a conversation.
I remember having some of those very conversations with YOU!
 
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Nancy

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I can’t really talk about studying. I really don’t do much of it. God teaches me….He just doesn’t really do it by me learning Hebrew, Greek, having studious…rules for how to read. He does it by recalling verses to my mind when He’s teaching/showing me something. He probably just does it different for different people.
I do sometimes look up all verses pertaining to a certain thing…I guess that’s called study?
Sure, He also teaches me by bringing scripture to mind, many times. I'm not talking so far as learning Greek or Hebrew :oops:. maybe some word definitions here and there but, that's about the extent of it.

"I do sometimes look up all verses pertaining to a certain thing…I guess that’s called study?"

Heck yeah, I'd say anything that compels us to look further into scripture is "study".
 
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Jim B

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Sure, He also teaches me by bringing scripture to mind, many times. I'm not talking so far as learning Greek or Hebrew :oops:. maybe some word definitions here and there but, that's about the extent of it.

"I do sometimes look up all verses pertaining to a certain thing…I guess that’s called study?"

Heck yeah, I'd say anything that compels us to look further into scripture is "study".
I think that the best tool is a good study Bible. There are many out there to choose from.
 
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marks

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That’s a huge change in what I’ve heard you say in the past!
No, I don't think so. No matter! I don't really think in terms of "positional righteousness", as if we've not been reborn, God seeing us through "Jesus colored glasses", no, God sees us as we really are, His Own children, who have been separated from sin.

I still have the sense that you don't really understand yet what I'm saying here.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Well…did the fallen angels used to be in Gods holy Presence? How did they disqualify themselves…?
So no, I don’t see the conflict you see.
I'll need to understand better how you see people living in holiness to better know how to reply.

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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How do you enter holiness?

Much love!
I don’t know. I think God has to take you there. But if you’re asking, how do I get God to take me there, I haven’t the foggiest idea. I think it’s when, and if, we are ready to bear it and when, and if, we can be trusted. I don’t think few find it because God is stingy. I think it’s because it’s better to be a live dog than a dead dog.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I still have the sense that you don't really understand yet what I'm saying here.
Oh…that’s usually the case when we seem to begin to agree, that we really disagree and don’t realize it yet.
 
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marks

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I don’t know. I think God has to take you there. But if you’re asking, how do I get God to take me there, I haven’t the foggiest idea. I think it’s when, and if, we are ready to bear it and when, and if, we can be trusted. I don’t think few find it because God is stingy. I think it’s because it’s better to be a live dog than a dead dog.
I'm just asking how you think it happens. Here's my reason. If God takes you into holiness, and in holiness, all you do is righteousness, then what would be the thing that could take you out of holiness?

Myself, I think this is the way all men are inteded to live, walking in the Spirit by faith in Jesus, having reconciled us to God, and empowered us by His Spirit, without sin.

I realize about the different walk you are talking about, but I have some different understandings of what that is about.

When God took me there, there wasn't any question of whether I would do right, of course I did, (subject to the reality that I'm not the fit judge, but my conscience was completely clean for the duration. There was no effort, nothing. No risk of mistep. Nothing to distrust. The Spirit was preventing anything from flesh, as I saw it.

But it wasn't until that ended that I then committed sin. His power kept me from sin. I never went against that. No thought about it. But I could tell the very moment it ended, just as I could tell the very moment it began.

I think God takes us there for His Own reasons, and we don't choose. We don't convince Him, we don't qualify ourselves, nothing like that. Just my opinion, mind you! When God knows it's right for us, it's what He does.

My personal opinion was that God was showing me something that would carry me through some extremely difficult times, as well as showing me the target. But then He returned me to my former state, because, again, my opinion only, because there is no merit living that way. It's not by faith, it's by His power. We want growth, we want fruit, we want reward, that comes by living by faith, by our own decision to believe Him even when everything is against us.

Just being borne along through life carried by the wind of the Spirit sounds nice, easy breezy, it's not about just being at the destination, it's about how we get there, and I think God intends for us to be active participants, to get the maximum benefit.

I actually think that what God did with me was remedial. If I were more developed spiritually, I wouldn't need it, I'd already believe at that level. I think God was helping me to recover, that much of my life is recovery from the destruction of me that was needed so I'd not become self-reliant, and not be saved. That to save me He had to near destroy me, but He is faithful, and I love Him!

Much love!
 
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marks

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Oh…that’s usually the case when we seem to begin to agree, that we really disagree and don’t realize it yet.
We have very different perspectives, and use our words differently, and process thoughts differently, I think there must be a lot we don't realize about each other.

Much love!
 

marks

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Positional Righteousness would be what Abraham received. He was judicially declared innocent. In Christ, along with being judicially declared innocent - the forgiveness of sins - we are reborn a new creature, God's spirit child, who, like God, actually IS righteous.

Our new creation is being trained in taking control away from our Adamic flesh. Being in sinful flesh doesn't make the new creation sinful.

Much love!
 
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