Oh Boy! Seeing So Much!

[Jay Ross]

Well…did the fallen angels used to be in Gods holy Presence? How did they disqualify themselves…?
So no, I don’t see the conflict you see.

The truth of the location of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts at present is that they can still come and go from heaven and exercise their influence on the peoples of the earth who manifest the respective Beasts characteristics that they are influenced by. The Beasts, i.e. the fallen heavenly hosts we are told in Isiaih 24:21-22 will be judged by God in heaven at the same time that the kings of the earth will be judged on the earth, and they will be gathered together on the face of the earth and imprisoned in a pit, i.e., called the Bottomless Pit in the Book of Revelation, for many days to await the time of their punishment.

The time of this judgement of the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will occur when we see the kings of the earth gather at Armageddon to be Judged. At the same time as the kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon, the Heavenly Hosts will also be judged in heaven and there will no longer be found any place for them in heaven and they will be kicked out of heaven down to the face of the earth to be imprisoned in the pit.

These judgement events will occur in our near future at the very end of this present age or at the very beginning of the next age which scholars have labelled as the Millennium Age,

One small error in our understanding is really a very big mistake that takes us down many a rabbit hole into the warren of confusion about God's prophetic words and His Salvation promises.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

Im seeing, in such rapid fashion, all the promises and all the counter oppressions to them and lies that stop up our faith to keep us from receiving those promises so they become manifest.

That's great--there's fire on the tracks!

We have the testimony of one who tells us that to have all things revealed, it will make "your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth."

I say this because God "working all things together for good for those who love him" is not all good in our experience. Likewise, manifestations are both good and evil. Proceed with care...on your face. Even so, name one thing ("let down your nets for a catch.”)--and see if it does not come about!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If I'm understanding how you are using the words, "holiness" is when you have no evil desires, because all your desires are for the Lord, and in that way, all you do is from the Spirit, as the Lord ministers to people through you. All you do will be righteous.

Holiness describes being fully set apart for God in thought, word, and deed. We don't "try to be" holy, we aren't "partly" holy, either we are or we are not.

While "righteousness" is describing the actions of the outer man as ruled by the inner man, in which we may be a mixed bag, some righteous, as we rule well, some unrighteous, as we rule poorly, gaining in righteousness as we become more consistent.

Is this how you use the words in this regard?

Much love!

Pretty close I think. As long as we remember that men do not achieve holiness - they are holy when they are taken into Gods presence to walk in His Spirit. There is only one holy.
On the one hand, I’m speaking way above my experience. On the other hand, when your flesh is put under, you hear God more clearly and begin to understand more.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

These are ABUNDANTLY saved (1 Pet 1). Whereas the righteous are SCARCELY saved (1 Pet 4:18).

I was thinking today about the tree of life that blooms every month and how it’s for the healing of the nations. I at first wondered why it would need to bloom every month since I thought, to eat of it once would give eternal life, wouldn’t it? But it mentions it’s leaves for healing rather than fruit…

Then I thought, maybe just during the thousand years, men will eat from it every month.
Then I began to look at the promises to the 7 churches in Rev and saw there were some clues there.

 

[Enoch111]

we are already sitting in heavenly places but we just don’t believe it.

Well that is in fact EXACTLY what the Bible says. So Marks was correct.

 

[quietthinker]

I was thinking today about the tree of life that blooms every month and how it’s for the healing of the nations. I at first wondered why it would need to bloom every month since I thought, to eat of it once would give eternal life, wouldn’t it? But it mentions it’s leaves for healing rather than fruit…

Then I thought, maybe just during the thousand years, men will eat from it every month.
Then I began to look at the promises to the 7 churches in Rev and saw there were some clues there.

I think 'healing' has greater meaning than the physical. Our ideas, our thoughts, our emotions will all require healing. The primary reason there is so much dissension on the boards is because we are sick.

Our healing will be towards understanding that which is higher than the heavens, wider than the east is from the west and deep than the deepest sea.

....and what is that? Is it not the nature/character/reality of a self sacrificing God?

 

[amigo de christo]

Well that is in fact EXACTLY what the Bible says. So Marks was correct.

It actually does say that my friend . It sure does . Now let all that draws breath both praise and thank the glorious Lord .

 

[amigo de christo]

Tis LORD praising time in the building . So hands up and let all dance a jig o praise with much thanksgiving unto the LORD .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think 'healing' has greater meaning than the physical. Our ideas, our thoughts, our emotions will all require healing. The primary reason there is so much dissension on the boards is because we are sick.

Absolutely!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus said to Nicodemus that a man must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus struggled to understand it. Jesus then said, if Ive told you about an earthly thing and you can’t understand, how will you understand if I tell you about heavenly things?
I never caught this before now…

 

[Nancy]

Jesus said to Nicodemus that a man must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus struggled to understand it. Jesus then said, if Ive told you about an earthly thing and you can’t understand, how will you understand if I tell you about heavenly things?
I never caught this before now…

Which part did you not catch before??

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Which part did you not catch before??

That to be born again and see the kingdom of God is an earthly thing.

 

[Nancy]

That to be born again and see the kingdom of God is an earthly thing.

Hm, interesting. Now that is not anything I've thought of when reading these passages. I see two things spoken of here, one - Jesus said one must be born not only of water (Earthly-mom's womb and fluid perhaps?) two- that one must also be born of The Spirit (spiritual). I know many laugh and think I'm nuts to think that...meh.
...also it can be compared to "The Kingdom of God is within you:...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The church has made their doctrines based on the world system and on the way the world works. I don’t know how it’s possible that this happened. In the world, everything revolves around money and customers. An advertising campaign is considered successful if it brings in more customers/money.

All of that is bad. But it pales in comparison to what happens then. Everything gets rigged to make you a lifelong customer who can’t escape. Because you are a cash cow. You are being fed off of. If you manage to escape, you are no longer of any use to those who want to cannibalize you.

 

[Nancy]

The church has made their doctrines based on the world system and on the way the world works. I don’t know how it’s possible that this happened. In the world, everything revolves around money and customers. An advertising campaign is considered successful if it brings in more customers/money.

All of that is bad. But it pales in comparison to what happens then. Everything gets rigged to make you a lifelong customer who can’t escape. Because you are a cash cow. You are being fed off of. If you manage to escape, you are no longer of any use to those who want to cannibalize you.

Didn't learn that in a church at all...most of what I have learned has been on my own, reading the bible, prayer and also commentaries. I know, even the commentators can be wrong but, I learned things none the less. I can remember the day when the conversation with Nicodemus came to mind and I was hit with the above thought. Might be correct and it might not. Dunno for sure.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Didn't learn that in a church at all

I didn’t learn it in church either. I learned it through observation of human nature and scripture.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That to be born again and see the kingdom of God is an earthly thing.

Yes, Jesus was speaking literally. One sees it or one doesn't see it.

 

[marks]

Hm, interesting. Now that is not anything I've thought of when reading these passages. I see two things spoken of here, one - Jesus said one must be born not only of water (Earthly-mom's womb and fluid perhaps?) two- that one must also be born of The Spirit (spiritual). I know many laugh and think I'm nuts to think that...meh.
...also it can be compared to "The Kingdom of God is within you:...

Jesus used the word "eido" there, which is to perceive, be aware of, understand, like that. There are two other Greek words that are normally used of "visual" seeing, optomai and horao.

Didn't learn that in a church at all...most of what I have learned has been on my own, reading the bible, prayer and also commentaries. I know, even the commentators can be wrong but, I learned things none the less. I can remember the day when the conversation with Nicodemus came to mind and I was hit with the above thought. Might be correct and it might not. Dunno for sure.

It seems to me you have it right. That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit. So even being born of flesh, we still have to be born of Spirit.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

The one strike thing is like…Moses not allowed to enter the promised land for failing to properly show Gods holiness. Or annais/saphira struck dead for trying to lie to a man walking in that holiness of God. Or Uzzah struck dead for mishandling the ark.

As to the rest of what you say here, you are thinking of holiness as something very different than I see it. You are seeing it as a way God makes you rather than a place where He is that He takes you to.

We might see Moses as a picture of the Law....he failed to reflect God's holiness ( but was in the flesh when he struck that rock a second time in fleshly anger)....just as the Law fails to make anyone holy. Entering the Promised Land is a picture of holiness....no one enters the promised land through the Law. (Whereas Joshua leading them into the promised land is a picture of Jesus, His Spirit - same name as Jesus even! Such a clear message to the Jews if only they had been willing!)

Ananias and Saphira were lying to God.....they had no sense of who He was, His holiness, His power and greatness to know all things, so they thought they could lie and pretend to be something that they weren't and God would not see. Where was their faith to treat God as a common man like that....I suspect they had not genuine faith and were pretenders who did not KNOW God. Which is similar in a way to what Uzzah did....treated the ark of God as common and not holy.

I believe God can be speaking more than one thing at the same time, but for one thing handling the ark of God with his hands was a picture of handling the things of God with our hands and minds of flesh instead of spirit....like lifeless religion having not the life of the spirit.....it leads to death. Tree of Knowledge of the carnal mind instead of Tree of Life which is spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

Positional Righteousness would be what Abraham received. He was judicially declared innocent. In Christ, along with being judicially declared innocent - the forgiveness of sins - we are reborn a new creature, God's spirit child, who, like God, actually IS righteous.

Our new creation is being trained in taking control away from our Adamic flesh. Being in sinful flesh doesn't make the new creation sinful.

Much love!

Amen...we are made righteous in God's sight because He has cast our sins into the sea of forgetfulness. How can God be blind to the fact that we're not really so righteous all the time in every way, some may ask, but that is the same as asking how can God forget that we sinned? Of course He knows all things, but in forgiving our sin He is choosing to not think about it any more...no longer imputing it to us, therefore imputing righteousness. No sin = righteous.