Oldest and Best, Really??

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Davy

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A person once wrote... "None of that has ever been proven to be fact though. It was just assumed..."

I agree in this case.

For the Liberal Leftist Communist, I guess that would be true. But true Bible-believing Christians are not Liberal leftist Communists. Liberalism, Socialism-Communism is anti-thesis to Christianity with God's written Word as the Measure.

And just because the liberal leftist socialist-communist still has blinders on and is not given to understand The Word of God because of their following that junk which is rebellion against God, then how could they ever even know what 'fact' is?
 
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Robert Gwin

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Christianity is NOT a cult, nor is it a religion; it is the Truth.

Religion is what man does to try to make himself appear holy, and is what causes divisions.

The Truth is from The Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit, and has always existed and will always exist. So anyone with even the smallest amount of common sense ought to realize that following God's Truth per His Word is the only Salvation, and His Word shows that God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ and He is the basis of Salvation in God's Word. Anything other than that is man trying to create religion outside God's Truth.

Many people are not educated well in the meaning of words Davy, Christianity is most definitely a cult, it is a religion, and yes sir, it is the truth since it is based on God's word which is actually the truth. It is Bible truth that actually identifies Christians sir. God coming in the flesh is of course not found in God's word, therefore it is not truth, logically then it is not a Christian teaching. Jn 3:16
 

Davy

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Many people are not educated well in the meaning of words Davy, Christianity is most definitely a cult, it is a religion, and yes sir, it is the truth since it is based on God's word which is actually the truth. It is Bible truth that actually identifies Christians sir. God coming in the flesh is of course not found in God's word, therefore it is not truth, logically then it is not a Christian teaching. Jn 3:16

Most are... educated enough in English that come here, or go to an English speaking Church. So I don't buy your argument.

And NO, Christianity is NOT a 'cult'. A cult represents a movement or group that is FALSE. So no Bible-believing Christian should ever apply that word on Christianity.

And even the word Christian first used in Antioch comes from its root meaning, Christ-man (a follower of Jesus Christ).

And God having come in the flesh MOST DEFINITELY IS WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.


22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.'

KJV

You know where that verse 23 was quoted from? From Isaiah 7 where God gave that prophecy of a son would be born of a virgin, and one of His many titles would be "Immanuel" which means 'God with us'. In Isaiah 9 Jesus is even pointed to as The Almighty and The everlasting Father! And that goes with what Jesus said about Himself in Revelation 1 being the first and the last, Alpha and Omega (first and last letters of the Greek alphabet). Our Heavenly Father used that 'first and the last' phrase about Himself in The Old Testament (Isaiah 44:6).
 
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theefaith

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Communists are atheists and they demand not only that there is no God but demands all memory of God be blotted out!
 
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theefaith

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They will have their reward, and it's soon to come. But first, some of us must suffer at their hand just prior to the end of this world.

and we have been since Lenin starved to death 5 million Catholics in the Ukraine a hundred years ago, God only knows how many have suffered martyrdom!
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Communists are atheists and they demand not only that there is no God but demands all memory of God be blotted out!
They do have gods however ! They are the gods ? Slaves to a System, that all must follow totally, just like the Jews who were under the Law, but this Law is not their to lead you to Christ at all.

Mans Law is political Correct ? something that deranged ! that it leaves one in a septic tank, swimming about like a Rat in the sewer, with no hope to become truly human.
 

Robert Gwin

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Most are... educated enough in English that come here, or go to an English speaking Church. So I don't buy your argument.

And NO, Christianity is NOT a 'cult'. A cult represents a movement or group that is FALSE. So no Bible-believing Christian should ever apply that word on Christianity.

And even the word Christian first used in Antioch comes from its root meaning, Christ-man (a follower of Jesus Christ).

And God having come in the flesh MOST DEFINITELY IS WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.


22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.'

KJV

You know where that verse 23 was quoted from? From Isaiah 7 where God gave that prophecy of a son would be born of a virgin, and one of His many titles would be "Immanuel" which means 'God with us'. In Isaiah 9 Jesus is even pointed to as The Almighty and The everlasting Father! And that goes with what Jesus said about Himself in Revelation 1 being the first and the last, Alpha and Omega (first and last letters of the Greek alphabet). Our Heavenly Father used that 'first and the last' phrase about Himself in The Old Testament (Isaiah 44:6).

I see you are unaware of what the word cult is sir, I too was ignorant of it so I looked it up:
What is a cult?
1. Compton’s dictionary defines cult as: 1 :formal religious veneration 2 :a religious system 3 :a faddish devotion; also :a group of persons showing such devotion.

2. Funk & Wagnalls dictionary: 1. A system of religious rites and observances.
2. Zealous devotion to a person, ideal, or thing. 3. The object of this devotion.
4. The followers of a cult. [< colere to cultivate, worship]

3. Webster’s dictionary: A system of belief and worship; a subject of devoted study.

4. Readers Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary: A system of religious rites and observances: the cult of Aphrodite. 2. Zealous devotion to a person, ideal or thing.
3. The object of this devotion. 4. The followers of a cult; a sect. Syn. See Religion.

5. American college dictionary: 1. A particular system of religious worship esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. An instance of almost religious veneration for a person or thing esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: a cult of napoleon.
3. The object of such devotion 4. Sociol. A group having an exclusive sacred ideology and a series of rites centered around their sacred symbols; worship.

6. World book dictionary: 1. A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. Great admiration for a person, thing, idea: worship. 3. A group showing such admiration; worshipers.

How was God with us Davy, did He send His son as the Bible says, or did He come Himself?
 

Davy

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I see you are unaware of what the word cult is sir, I too was ignorant of it so I looked it up:
What is a cult?
1. Compton’s dictionary defines cult as: 1 :formal religious veneration 2 :a religious system 3 :a faddish devotion; also :a group of persons showing such devotion.

2. Funk & Wagnalls dictionary: 1. A system of religious rites and observances.
2. Zealous devotion to a person, ideal, or thing. 3. The object of this devotion.
4. The followers of a cult. [< colere to cultivate, worship]

3. Webster’s dictionary: A system of belief and worship; a subject of devoted study.

4. Readers Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary: A system of religious rites and observances: the cult of Aphrodite. 2. Zealous devotion to a person, ideal or thing.
3. The object of this devotion. 4. The followers of a cult; a sect. Syn. See Religion.

5. American college dictionary: 1. A particular system of religious worship esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. An instance of almost religious veneration for a person or thing esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: a cult of napoleon.
3. The object of such devotion 4. Sociol. A group having an exclusive sacred ideology and a series of rites centered around their sacred symbols; worship.

6. World book dictionary: 1. A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. Great admiration for a person, thing, idea: worship. 3. A group showing such admiration; worshipers.

How was God with us Davy, did He send His son as the Bible says, or did He come Himself?

Oxford English Dictionary meaning:
"A fragmentary religious grouping, to which individuals are loosely affiliated, but which lacks any permanent structure."

Do you see that, "lacks any permanent structure", and loose affiliation idea? That is what a CULT is. It has no real structure, which is what Charles Taze Russel did with creation of his Jehovah Witness organization that has YOU fooled. One man created it, and then those he drafted through LOOSE AFFILIATION.

But the Christian is NOT just some product of a loose affiliation, nor does Christianity lack any permanent structure. I guarantee you, the JW system will be burned up when Lord Jesus Christ returns, and any CULT like it. Only The true Word of God will exist then with Jesus, as He said His Word will NEVER pass away, and His Word REVEALS that He, Jesus Christ, is Immanuel GOD with us born in the flesh, and NOT some created angel like Charles Russel proposed from his own 'opinion' structure without any Scripture backing at all!
 
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Robert Gwin

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Oxford English Dictionary meaning:
"A fragmentary religious grouping, to which individuals are loosely affiliated, but which lacks any permanent structure."

Do you see that, "lacks any permanent structure", and loose affiliation idea? That is what a CULT is. It has no real structure, which is what Charles Taze Russel did with creation of his Jehovah Witness organization that has YOU fooled. One man created it, and then those he drafted through LOOSE AFFILIATION.

But the Christian is NOT just some product of a loose affiliation, nor does Christianity lack any permanent structure. I guarantee you, the JW system will be burned up when Lord Jesus Christ returns, and any CULT like it. Only The true Word of God will exist then with Jesus, as He said His Word will NEVER pass away, and His Word REVEALS that He, Jesus Christ, is Immanuel GOD with us born in the flesh, and NOT some created angel like Charles Russel proposed from his own 'opinion' structure without any Scripture backing at all!

I will not argue with dictionaries sir, I did not invent the English language, and do not profess to know more than the scholars versed in the language. I gave you the definition, believe it or not.

Immanuel means God is with us, I asked you how, you said Jesus is God, however that is not a Bible teaching, Jesus had a God, and the Bible clearly states his God is his Father whose name is Jehovah. Believe God's word or not sir Jn 3:16. Perhaps you just like to argue against facts, which is fine, but when it comes to the Bible, best to accept it's teachings don't you think. Ignorance of English words is certainly not serious, but not knowing God or obeying the gospel is deadly when Jesus returns Davy 2 Thes 1:6-9
 

RLT63

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Why is this matter about the two main types of Greek New Testament text that important? Aren't they all the same God's Word? No, they are not both the same.

The historical or Traditional Greek text is God's Word, and has survived from the earliest centuries from the Antioch and Byzantine tradition and to the 1611 King James Version Bible from which translations of the same Greek text (Textus Receptus) have gone out to the majority of other nations in their own language. The Received Text (or Majority Text) is clearly shown through history to be The Word of God preserved by God Himself.

This matter of the two different Greek texts is important because it is about a spiritual battle between The Church and its historical Greek New Testament, vs. the followers of the Occult.

Documentation exists that Fenton John Anthony Hort and Brooke Foss Wescott were involved in a spiritualist association at Cambridge known as the Ghostly Guild, or "the Ghost Club", with the aim to investigate the supernatural. This association would later become the Society For Psychical Research, an Occult group. (Documenting Cambridge’s Ghostly Guild/Association for Spiritual Inquiry/Ghost Society/Ghost Club)

The information about their association with the Ghostly Guild, and just how Hort and Wescott felt about the Traditional Received Greek text of The New Testament can be found in their own personal letters and by testimony of relatives which were published. You can read them here:
Life and letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort : Hort, Fenton John Anthony, 1828-1892 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Life and letters of Brooke Foss Westcott, D.D., D.C.L., sometime Bishop of Durham : Westcott, Arthur : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

All modern New Testament versions are based on the new Greek translation that Wescott and Hort presented to the revision committee of 1881. Their revision amounted to a 'new' Greek text for The New Testament. It is called the Critical Text. They based their new translation on the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus manuscripts. All modern New Testament translations are based from the Wescott and Hort Greek text.

Internal evidence of their new Greek text reveals their attempt to remove the Divinity of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Traditional historical Greek texts for The New Testament. They denied many New Testament doctrines revealed in the Traditional Greek text, thus their desire to get rid of the Traditional Majority texts used for earlier New Testament versions.

The following link reveals more about Wescott and Hort's Occult association with The Society For Psychical Research and the Russian mystic Helena Petrova Blavatsky, one of the heads of the Occult Theosophical Research Society. Blavatsky used a spiritualist channeling tool called 'automatic writing' (like the Ouija Board idea) to channel a spirit through her by which she wrote a two volume work called The Secret Doctrine and another called Isis Unveiled, in which she claimed were dictated to her by her spirit contact.

Undeniable: The Satanic infiltration of Churches (Westcott & Hort and BEYOND)

Anytime there is involvement of the Occult in scholar associations, that suggests an outside spirit influence. In the days of Wescott and Hort the Spiritualist movement was popular with holding occult seances in hopes of contacting a spirit. God's Word in The Old Testament says to not do this. And under God's law the penalty for practicing witchcraft was the death penalty, and enforced even into the Christian era, also by king James I in 1600s Britain (is it any wonder why the Occultists hated him?).

Many brethren in today's Churches are simply not getting an education on these things, so most are not aware of this battle of the Occult against Christ's Church, and particularly the many corrupt modern New Testament versions with their continual edits and such (Nestle-Aland based on the W&H Greek text had something like 28 editions, the claim of discovery of new pieces of ancient Greek manuscripts). And the attack has especially been in past centuries upon the Catholic Church, and on the Church of England with a falling away, as Wescott and Hort in the 1800s were examples, being members of the Anglican Church of England.

So the next time someone just says, "It's all the same Bible, The Gospel is written in all of the versions," do some deeper verification by making comparisons with the Traditional Greek New Testament translations vs. the modern versions based on Wescott and Hort's (Nestle-Aland, and UBS) new Greek Critical text.
I like the NKJV. the NASB95 and I like the NET Full Notes Edition for the notes



 

Davy

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I like the NKJV. the NASB95 and I like the NET Full Notes Edition for the notes
I did a Bible study with a friend and his wife a while back, and of course I use the KJV, but he was using a NKJV.

He eventually threw his NKJV down on the coffee table and complained of how different it read than the KJV I was using.

So like I said in the above posts, NT version after the 1880s is from a different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional Greek texts used prior to the 1880s. Your choice which you use.

And I often hear the lame excuse some try to use that the KJV is just too hard because of Old English. Fact is, probably about 95% of the Old English style phrases were removed a long time ago. You have to buy a 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible to get the one with Old English including letter type. But it's good to have a copy, because the KJV translators put translation notes in the side margins.
 
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RLT63

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So how did we end up with changes and verses being deleted out of the Bible? Let’s review quickly:

At the end of the 3rd century, Lucian of Antioch compiled a Greek text that achieved considerable popularity and became the dominant text throughout Christendom. It was produced prior to the Diocletain persecution (~303), during which many copies of the New Testament were confiscated and destroyed. (This was not the first persecution and the earliest copies of the New Testament were rounded up and destroyed going all the way back to around 70 AD.)


After Constantine came to power, the Lucian text was propagated by bishops going out from the Antiochan School throughout the eastern world, and it soon became the standard text of the Eastern Church, forming the basis of the Byzantine text. (Today the majority of surviving copies of the New Testament in Greek are Byzantine text type.)


From the 6th to the 14th century, the great majority of New Testament manuscripts were produced in Byzantium, in Greek. It was in 1525 that Erasmus, using five or six Byzantine manuscripts dating from the 10th to the 13th centuries, compiled the first Greek text to be produced on a printing press, subsequently known as Textus Receptus ("Received Text").


The translators of the King James Version had over 5,000 manuscripts available to them, but they leaned most heavily on the major Byzantine manuscripts, particularly Textus Receptus because it agreed with the majority of manuscripts. The King James Version was published in 1611 and for 270 years was the accepted Bible of record.

Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort
were Anglican churchmen who had contempt for the Textus Receptus and began a work in 1853 that resulted, after 28 years, in a Greek New Testament based on the earlier Alexandrian manuscripts, particularly two documents; The Codex Vaticanus and The Codex Sinaiticus.

They had some rules for their method of translation
, foremost was that the oldest manuscripts are closest to the originals. This seems reasonable until you investigate what the oldest manuscripts are.


They said that shorter is better. If you’re looking at manuscripts and one has less words than the other, they preferred the shorter version because they said it was more likely that something was added than that something was omitted. That’s pure speculation, but that’s how they did it.


They said that the more difficult a reading was, the closer it was to the original, because they said copyists had tried to make the scriptures easier to read over the years.


They said if there was a mistake, the mistake was closer to the original because it was probably corrected in later texts. That’s how you get mistakes like Mark 1:2.


And they said that the majority means nothing. So if you have over 5,000 documents and they are in agreement 90% of the time and you have 2 documents that are older than all the rest, where there is a difference you ignore the majority and use the 2 oldest documents as your source. That’s what they did. They preferred the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus over the majority. Let’s look at these documents.
Continued
 

RLT63

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The Codex Vaticanus gets its name from the place where it is stored the Vatican library. It is regarded as the oldest and rarest existing Greek copy of the Bible. It has been dated to around 350 AD. It’s over 90% intact which is incredible for a manuscript its age. The reason it’s rare is because it wasn’t copied. People realized there was a problem with it and they didn’t copy it. That’s also why it’s in good shape. It wasn’t handled and worn by people copying it.

It’s one of four uncial manuscripts dating before the year 1,000 and it is considered the most significant. It’s curious that it’s given the position of most important when the actual quality of the manuscript leaves much to be desired.


Dean Burgon describes the quality of Vaticanus as follows:

“Codex Vaticanus comes to us without a history, without recommendation of any kind except that of antiquity. It bears traces of careless transcription on every page. The mistakes which the original transcriber made are of perpetual recurrence.”


The New Westminister Dictionary of the Bible concurs:

“It should be noted however that there is no prominent Biblical manuscript in which there occur such gross cases of misspelling, faulty grammer and omission as in Vaticanus.”


So the Vaticanus scribe wasn’t top tier. Some scholars would say he wasn’t even middle of the pack. In the 10th or 11th century at least 2 scribes made corrections to Vaticanus so that means it’s not entirely a 4th century version, some of it is from the 10th or 11th century. One of the correctors even left a note for the other corrector.


Someone corrected Hebrews 1:3 but the other corrector objected and wrote “Fool and knave, can’t you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!” Apparently the note writer regarded the document as a museum piece to be protected and preserved and not as a copy of scripture to be used as such.

The Codex Vaticanus is a mediocre document at best. It’s held in such high regard simply because it is old.

Codex Sinaiticus takes its name from where it was found, St. Catherine’s monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai. It was found by a man named Lobegott Friedrich Constantin Tischendorf. He was going through documents that were going to be burned when he found Sinaiticus. So it was found in the trash.



Even those who love the manuscript will admit it has serious quality problems. The Codex Sinaiticus website says the following;


No other early manuscript of the Christian Bible has been so extensively corrected. A glance at the transcription will show just how common these corrections are. They are especially frequent in the Septuagint portion. They range in date from those made by the original scribes in the fourth century to ones made in the twelfth century. They range from the alteration of a single letter to the insertion of whole sentences.


They aren’t the only ones to say this either. The manuscript’s finder Tischendorf – who reckoned it as the greatest find of his life – said the following:On nearly every page of the manuscript there are corrections and revisions, done by 10 different people.


Tischendorf also that said he:
counted 14,800 alterations and corrections in Sinaiticus.” He goes on to say:

The New Testament…is extremely unreliable…on many occasions 10, 20, 30, 40, words are dropped…letters, words, even whole sentences are frequently written twice over, or begun and immediately canceled. That gross blunder, whereby a clause is omitted because it happens to end in the same word as the clause preceding, occurs no less than 115 times in the New Testament.



By any conceivable metric (except age), Codex Sinaiticus is one of the worst manuscripts ever found. You probably couldn’t find a scholar who would praise the scribal work in Sinaiticus, and it’s easy to find those who deride it as the worst scribal work among the manuscripts that have been found.


Yet Westcott and Hort preferred these 2 manuscripts and the critical text used for today’s versions of the Bible are based on the Alexandrian manuscripts and mostly agree with Westcott and Hort’s work.


Both men were strongly influenced by those who denied the deity of Jesus Christ and embraced the prevalent Gnostic heresies of the period. There are over 3,000 contradictions in the four gospels alone between these manuscripts. They deviated from the traditional Greek text in 8,413 places.

They conspired to influence the committee that produced The New Testament in the Original Greek (1881 revision), and, thus, their work has been a major influence in most modern translations, dethroning the Textus Receptus.

Detractors of the traditional King James Version regard the Westcott and Hort as a more academically acceptable literary source for guidance than the venerated Textus Receptus. They argue that the disputed passages were added later as scribal errors or amendments.

Defenders of the Textus Receptus attack Westcott and Hort (and the Alexandrian manuscripts) as having removed these many passages, noting that these disputed passages underscore the deity of Christ, His atonement, His resurrection, and other key doctrines. They note that Alexandria was a major headquarters for the Gnostics, heretical sects that had begun to emerge even while John was still alive.

(It is also evident that Westcott and Hort were not believers and opposed taking the Bible literally concerning the Atonement & Salvation, they didn’t believe in Hell and the most damning evidence against them is their own words. If you read their personal writings you wouldn't dream of letting them lead your Sunday School class!)


Most modern versions of the Bible are based on the Alexandrian manuscripts because they are the oldest. The experts say the Majority Text (the Byzantine type) are corrupted and these verses missing from the Alexandrian texts were added later to the Byzantine texts (the Majority). They say the Byzantine texts should not even be considered. But the evidence is that the Alexandrian texts are corrupt.

There remains a persistent bias against the Byzantine Text type in Critical Text advocates. Here’s Dan Wallace – arguably the most respected New Testament textual critic alive today – talking about one of our oldest manuscripts, the Codex Alexandrius.

“Codex Alexandrius is a very interesting manuscript in that in the Gospels, it’s a Byzantine text largely, which means it agrees with the majority of manuscripts most of the time. While as, in the rest of the New Testament, it is largely Alexandrian. These are the two most competing textual forms, textual families, text types if you want to call them that, that we have for our New Testament manuscripts. So when you get outside the Gospels, Alexandrius becomes very important manuscript.” – Dan Wallace

Source: YouTube. (Only 1:35 long, starting at about 0:53)



Please notice the casual dismissal of the Byzantine text type by one of the most respected textual critics of our age. I’m honestly not sure why it’s dismissed so easily. Codex Alexandrius is the third oldest (nearly) complete manuscript, dating from the early 400s. Why dismiss the Gospels just because they are a different text type?


We have 5000+ manuscripts of the New Testament, though many are smaller fragments. In the last ~140 years since the Westcott & Hort 1881 Critical Text, we’ve discovered Papyri from the 300s, 200s, and even a few from the 100s. Despite this, the Critical Text of the New Testament remains virtually unchanged from ~140 years ago. Because they prefer the Alexandrian text types.

The following is regarding the Alexandrian text type manuscripts.

However, the antiquity of these manuscripts is no indication of reliability because a prominent church father in Alexandria testified that manuscripts were already corrupt by the third century. Origen, the Alexandrian church father in the early third century, said:

“…the differences among the manuscripts [of the Gospels] have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they lengthen or shorten, as they please.”

( From Bruce Metzger, The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, 3rd ed. (1991), pp. 151-152). (Bruce Metzger was one of the editors of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament that is the basis for modern translations.)


Origen is of course speaking of the manuscripts of his location, Alexandria, Egypt. By an Alexandrian Church father’s own admission, manuscripts in Alexandria by 200 AD were already corrupt. Irenaeus in the 2nd century, though not in Alexandria, made a similar admission on the state of corruption among New Testament manuscripts. Daniel B. Wallace says, “Revelation was copied less often than any other book of the NT, and yet Irenaeus admits that it was already corrupted — within just a few decades of the writing of the Apocalypse.

There’s an argument to be made that the Alexandrian Text type was corrupted very early.

So the same argument they use against The Majority Text can be used against the Alexandrian Texts.
 
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RLT63

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I did a Bible study with a friend and his wife a while back, and of course I use the KJV, but he was using a NKJV.

He eventually threw his NKJV down on the coffee table and complained of how different it read than the KJV I was using.

So like I said in the above posts, NT version after the 1880s is from a different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional Greek texts used prior to the 1880s. Your choice which you use.

And I often hear the lame excuse some try to use that the KJV is just too hard because of Old English. Fact is, probably about 95% of the Old English style phrases were removed a long time ago. You have to buy a 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible to get the one with Old English including letter type. But it's good to have a copy, because the KJV translators put translation notes in the side margins.
I refer to the KJV on Blue Letter Bible and Bible Hub. I usually search in the KJV then check other versions. Young's Literal Translation is another good one to check.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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I did a Bible study with a friend and his wife a while back, and of course I use the KJV, but he was using a NKJV.

He eventually threw his NKJV down on the coffee table and complained of how different it read than the KJV I was using.

So like I said in the above posts, NT version after the 1880s is from a different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional Greek texts used prior to the 1880s. Your choice which you use.

And I often hear the lame excuse some try to use that the KJV is just too hard because of Old English. Fact is, probably about 95% of the Old English style phrases were removed a long time ago. You have to buy a 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible to get the one with Old English including letter type. But it's good to have a copy, because the KJV translators put translation notes in the side margins.
Mine is a Authorized KJB with the words of Jesus in Red.
I found the words in Red very helpful.
And it has Read-Along reference and Translation and a outline star for prophecy concerning Jesus Christ and a full star indicates fulfilled.
And Concordance.
And it has a good introduction on each Book before you read such is great to get a handle on what the book is about.

I have not seen that type of KJB around for years as I will buy another if it is the same, I do not bother with the newer translations as they are all a disgrace. They are dead bibles worldly written lacking in regarding of the Holy Spirit. for who ever translate such was clearly not saved but clearly coming from a worldly perspective, Religious maybe ! but that does not cut it at all.

If one is serious, one needs some education regarding the Hebrew and Greek and Latin, so as to get a handle on what is truly tried to be conveyed in to English. but they tried their best to convey such into English ! sadly the newer translations do not do justice at all to some points, some times it does or can. but I have many bibles and I would have 3 or 4 lined up seeking what is going on.

Sure I remember reading the KJB when I was young and could not really understand it, because that one did not have like my Authorized KJB did.

I went to buy the top shelf RC Bible and had a look through such before I bought it and was shocked that the whole Bible had been dumbed down from the old RC one that I had that is the best by far of any Bible ever. But from the 1970's on the RC Bibles are nothing alike as that's when the rot set in, as pope Paul said in fact and then a doppelganger took his place and started on with being an idiot that was sprouting on going down a worldly track with Vatican 2 as a Godless Anti-Christ driven power that we can clearly see nowadays.
 

Davy

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I refer to the KJV on Blue Letter Bible and Bible Hub. I usually search in the KJV then check other versions. Young's Literal Translation is another good one to check.
I'm using a BibleSoft program called OneTouch. It has many Bible versions. And there's a free version of OneTouch offered on the BibleSoft website. The pay version comes with Hebrew and Greek Interlinears also. And you can add separate modules as desired.
 
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Davy

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Mine is a Authorized KJB with the words of Jesus in Red.
I found the words in Red very helpful.
And it has Read-Along reference and Translation and a outline star for prophecy concerning Jesus Christ and a full star indicates fulfilled.
And Concordance.
And it has a good introduction on each Book before you read such is great to get a handle on what the book is about.

I have not seen that type of KJB around for years as I will buy another if it is the same, I do not bother with the newer translations as they are all a disgrace. They are dead bibles worldly written lacking in regarding of the Holy Spirit. for who ever translate such was clearly not saved but clearly coming from a worldly perspective, Religious maybe ! but that does not cut it at all.

If one is serious, one needs some education regarding the Hebrew and Greek and Latin, so as to get a handle on what is truly tried to be conveyed in to English. but they tried their best to convey such into English ! sadly the newer translations do not do justice at all to some points, some times it does or can. but I have many bibles and I would have 3 or 4 lined up seeking what is going on.

Sure I remember reading the KJB when I was young and could not really understand it, because that one did not have like my Authorized KJB did.

I went to buy the top shelf RC Bible and had a look through such before I bought it and was shocked that the whole Bible had been dumbed down from the old RC one that I had that is the best by far of any Bible ever. But from the 1970's on the RC Bibles are nothing alike as that's when the rot set in, as pope Paul said in fact and then a doppelganger took his place and started on with being an idiot that was sprouting on going down a worldly track with Vatican 2 as a Godless Anti-Christ driven power that we can clearly see nowadays.
In English, I rely on the KJV Bible. I use the KJV that 19th century British scholar E.W. Bullinger put together, called The Companion Bible. Just for the Appendixes of research material he did in the back is worth having a copy.

Bullinger's KJV Companion Bible has Massorah notes in the side margins which were not available in the 1611 KJV. The notes are from the British scholar Christian David Ginsburg's work with his pulling together Massorah manuscripts.

Of course Bullinger held to the pre-trib rapture theory from John Darby and Darby's dispensationalist ideas, which I do not. So one still need to use common sense with his KJV study Bible. Yet, in my opinion, it's still the best KJV study Bible on the market.
 
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RLT63

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I did a Bible study with a friend and his wife a while back, and of course I use the KJV, but he was using a NKJV.

He eventually threw his NKJV down on the coffee table and complained of how different it read than the KJV I was using.

So like I said in the above posts, NT version after the 1880s is from a different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional Greek texts used prior to the 1880s. Your choice which you use.

And I often hear the lame excuse some try to use that the KJV is just too hard because of Old English. Fact is, probably about 95% of the Old English style phrases were removed a long time ago. You have to buy a 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible to get the one with Old English including letter type. But it's good to have a copy, because the KJV translators put translation notes in the side margins.
The NKJV was translated from the Textus Receptus. The same as the KJV.
 

Davy

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The NKJV was translated from the Textus Receptus. The same as the KJV.
I admonish you to look further at what Greek texts were used for the NKJV. Just because they put the 'New' KJV label on it is actually a hoax.



 
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