Olivet Discourse present or future?

[Eternally Grateful]

so, Jesus fulfils it then scraps it? Wouldn't you say that makes God an arbitrary rule maker?

your not making any sense at all

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you think it possible for use to instate "the Mosaic Law of all things" to nation today? Considering, it would be unthinkable to put to death a rebellious son, @Randy Kluth though people would be like "damn I wish i could kill this boy he is always causing me trouble" While it can be individual and spiritual that makes sense, but to be able to apply to America, or Austrilia just seems implausible cause Paul states it is spiritual and good not that it should be mandated cause they were nailed to the cross.

The principles of walking by Christ are relatively simple, but understanding the scope of God's plans is quite complex. Same with comparing Israel's OT theocracy with today's modern democracies.

Since many of us grew up in these liberal democracies, we just assume they had "Christian origins," and were improvements upon past failed Christian monarchies. Well, certainly our democracies were initially an improvement upon *failed* Christian monarchies. Was Communism born in Russia an improvement over a failed Christian monarchy? I really can't say that. It would've been best to *reform* the Christian monarchy.

But democracies were a step back from totalitarianism of any kind, whether monarchy or communism. However, being *liberal democracies,* they were like Communism a step backwards, as well. It sought to reform a Christian problem with a largely non-Christian solution. Deism was not a Christian solution, and yet Deism is what formed the American Democracy.

And yet, we were raised in liberal education to think our democracy, whether in America or in Europe, was an improvement over Israel's ancient theocracy. But it really wasn't. A turn to secular humanism is a turn away from true Christianity, and a turn to "freedom of religion" is more than just tolerance--it is the open embrace of homosexuality, transgenderism, Islam, Communism, and even Satanism.

Theocracy, of a non-totalitarian kind, was always the right way. Make no apologies for offering only "one God" for a nation and its set of laws. Tolerating "other gods" will always bring compromise and disgrace.

One thing to keep in mind, though. Once the Christian conscience of the majority is lost, there is no turning back. Christian reforms will be transitory. A Christian theocracy only works when the vast majority in a society embraces Christian truth. Requiring "only Christianity" today will only bring civil war and anarchy.

It's really amazing the overall scope if one takes in all of pauls writings and the other apostles as well...

Thank you also for the mention of Tabernacle and on the High Priestly Garments by Maureen Gaglardi

You're very welcome! There is so much there. I only don't address it more because my primary love is Prophecy.

Times have certainly changed from since the dawn of Christ, haven't they? Or have they all remained the same, but everything becomes new in spiritual application of being born again?

When it comes to the olivet discourse, it's over with. The spiritual principles though at QT mention in Matthew 5, are always on going they are steps to heaven (in a sense), which people can fall down and walk back up again in their life of walking with Christ and maturing.

Well yes, the Olivet Discourse dealt with ancient history, but for the Jew it is still on-going. And the lessons of the OT, which is really what the OD was, is for us today. All formerly Christian nations should know what happens when a nation turns away from God.

 

[Keraz]

Christians are not going to be called up to heaven.

Jesus said that such a thing as humans living in heaven was impossible. In flesh or Spiritually.
The Church, generally; is very wrong about this.

So your claim that Israel's national recovery is a "Rapture Belief" seems bizarre to me, since many groups other than Pretribbers believe in this

The Jewish State of Israel will be gone and only a remnant of Jewish Christians will survive to join with their Christian brethren, in the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy land. This is what the Bible says will happen. Isaiah 62:1-5

the belief of being Raptured to heaven is ubiquitous--what other option is out there?

That we live in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, trusting on the Lord for protection. We will be there when Gog and his huge army attacks us. The Lord will wipe them out for us; all as described in Ezekiel 38 to 39.

The Bible also states that Christians are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. We are transformed and then reign on earth in some way

Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:17, will happen when Jesus Returns. It will be a transportation, as Philip was: Acts 8:39
From wherever we are on earth to where Jesus will be on earth, that is: Jerusalem.
There is no 'transformation; for anyone until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus said that such a thing as humans living in heaven was impossible. In flesh or Spiritually.
The Church, generally; is very wrong about this.

The Jewish State of Israel will be gone and only a remnant of Jewish Christians will survive to join with their Christian brethren, in the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy land. This is what the Bible says will happen. Isaiah 62:1-5

That we live in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, trusting on the Lord for protection. We will be there when Gog and his huge army attacks us. The Lord will wipe them out for us; all as described in Ezekiel 38 to 39.

Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:17, will happen when Jesus Returns. It will be a transportation, as Philip was: Acts 8:39
From wherever we are on earth to where Jesus will be on earth, that is: Jerusalem.
There is no 'transformation; for anyone until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

All I can say is you're entitled to your opinion, brother. Some of these things don't matter--we'll find out when we find out.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I'm saying that whether people are descended from Jacob or not, the criteria for their survival in the forthcoming Day the Lord will destroy His enemies, is belief in Jesus.
John 3:36....he that believes not the Son, shall not see life.....

Your idea is that even after that terrible Day, the Jews will get a second chance. This is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory and is not Biblical. Only a remnant of the Jews will survive to join with their Christian brethren. Jeremiah 50:3-4
Even Zechariah 12:9-14 and 13:8-9, describe just a remnant, of Jews; those who are Christians now.

Completely wrong.
The AC requires a mark. To refuse the mark means martyrdom.
All believers are killed ,or take the mark, except for the Jews ushered to safety.
Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

The victory for believers over the beast was by martyrdom. Martyred for refusing the mark. They are in heaven DURING the gt

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus said that such a thing as humans living in heaven was impossible. In flesh or Spiritually.
The Church, generally; is very wrong about this.

The Jewish State of Israel will be gone and only a remnant of Jewish Christians will survive to join with their Christian brethren, in the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy land. This is what the Bible says will happen. Isaiah 62:1-5

That we live in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, trusting on the Lord for protection. We will be there when Gog and his huge army attacks us. The Lord will wipe them out for us; all as described in Ezekiel 38 to 39.

Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:17, will happen when Jesus Returns. It will be a transportation, as Philip was: Acts 8:39
From wherever we are on earth to where Jesus will be on earth, that is: Jerusalem.
There is no 'transformation; for anyone until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

Rev 19 decares a different dynamic than your beliefs.
also...
The dialogue at the last supper has us in heaven for the feast and dwellings.

 

[ewq1938]

Completely wrong.
The AC requires a mark. To refuse the mark means martyrdom.

No it doesn't. Only refusal to worship the image means you are killed. Obviously the living survivors of the GT did not take the mark but were not killed. The punishment for not taking the mark is to be unable to buy and sell.

 

[Keraz]

All believers are killed ,or take the mark, except for the Jews ushered to safety.

Proof of your errors is in Revelation 12:17, where it is the Christian peoples who get persecuted, NOT the Jews. They are gone, as over 20 prophesies tell us.

Rev 19 decares a different dynamic than your beliefs.
also...
The dialogue at the last supper has us in heaven for the feast and dwellings.

In heaven? You have made that up. Bad you!

We are not told where the Marriage Supper will be held, but it is more logical and better exegesis, to believe it will be on earth.
Your wild assumptions, show an intransigent and recidivist attitude to any contradiction of your beliefs.

 

[Keraz]

All I can say is you're entitled to your opinion, brother. Some of these things don't matter--we'll find out when we find out.

I contend that what the Prophetic Word tells us, does matter!
God has not given us so much information for us to just dismiss it. And most do reject or ignore the Prophesies, because they are fooled by false theories.
Why should you, a person with a genuine desire to know the truth, just say: 'we'll find out when we find out'
God may ask us: Why did you not read and see what I told you of my Plans for your future? .