Olivet P6: The Great Tribulation (GT)

[MrBebe]

Previous Topics:
Olivet P1: Looking Through the Stones of the Buildings of the Temple
Olivet P2: False Messiahs (1st SEWIC)
Olivet P3: Fearful Things and Terrors (2nd SEWIC)
Olivet P4: Persecutions and Martyrdoms (3rd SEWIC)
Olivet P5: The Desolation and the Great Distress According to Luke

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Mat 24:7-8 KJV

(7) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
(8) All these are the beginning of sorrows.​

The Aramaic word for “sorrows” in v8 has this definition:

1 labor pains Qum, JLAtg, CPA, Syr. –(a) fig. Syr.
2 (magic) a type of demon JBAmb.​

It is expected from the last verse above that events in v7 will continue and intensify up to the days of the Great Tribulation (GT). As “labor pains,” it is also indicating that “pains” occur NOT in one continuous time. At the time that the abomination of desolation can already be seen standing up, the days of the GT had already started or was about to start:

Mat 24:20-21 KJV
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

The versions of Etheridge and Lamsa which are translated from the Aramaic are similar to KJV in regard to the start of the GT. Those same days end just before the “darkening:”

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:​

What specific ‘darkening” and “shaking of heavens” is meant here? Here’s a passage from the 6th Seal:

Rev 7:13-14 KJV
(13) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
(14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

Looking backward from Rev 7:14, the nearest “darkening” of heavenly hosts occurs at the beginning of the 6th Seal itself. This could be what is meant in the Olivet Prophecy.

The immediate preceding seal from this particular darkening is the 5th Seal. There are no signs of GT here. It seems that it’s the aftermath of the GT the seal is telling. If we will look from the 2nd Seal up to the 4th Seal, we will see that the 4th Seal has the most and greatest causes of distress in all of them. On the other hand, if we will closely examine the 5th Seal, we will see that it has no “actual” event that happens on its time, that is, between the 4th and the 6th Seals! The 5th Seal is telling of events that are past and future then but no event(s) at its present time. Why would the souls be told to wait for events that are future then if those events are to happen on that same seal (except that it would be told later that they happened in that same seal)?

As I see it, the immediate “actual” event that follows after the 4th Seal is the darkening of heavenly bodies of the 6th Seal. John saw the 5th Seal between the 4th and 6th seals but it has no “actual” events. In actuality, it spans no time frame. This seal contains the prayers of those slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held, and they are being consoled, maybe because what they had gone through was a great ordeal (4th Seal).

How about the passage below?

Joe 2:6-10 ESV
(6) Before them peoples are in anguish; all faces grow pale.
(7) Like warriors they charge; like soldiers they scale the wall. They march each on his way; they do not swerve from their paths.
(8) They do not jostle one another; each marches in his path; they burst through the weapons and are not halted.
(9) They leap upon the city, they run upon the walls, they climb up into the houses, they enter through the windows like a thief.
(10) The earth quakes before them; the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.​

Here is the same passage again but rendered by a different version:

Joe 2:6-10 YLT
(6) From its face pained are peoples, All faces have gathered paleness.
(7) As mighty ones they run, As men of war they go up a wall, And each in his own ways they do go, And they embarrass not their paths.
(8) And each his brother they press not, Each in his way they go on, If by the missile they fall, they are not cut off.
(9) In the city they run to and fro, On the wall they run, Into houses they go up by the windows, They go in as a thief.
(10) At their face trembled hath the earth, Shaken have the heavens, Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining.​

It can be seen from this passage (two versions) that verses 6 and 10 make (more) sense in relation to the other verses if they will be looked upon in the perspective of time. The word “face” in both verses can also mean “before” or “beforetime” as in Deu 2:12, Jos 11:10, 1Sa 9:9, and Isa 41:26.

H6440 BDB Definition:
1) face
1a) face, faces
1b) presence, person
1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
1d) face (of animals)
1e) face, surface (of ground)
1f) as adverb of loc/temp
1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before
1g) with preposition
1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of​

Together, verses 6 and 10 support what is said in Mat 24:29: pain or tribulation (4th Seal) then darkening with earthquakes and shaking of heavens (6th Seal).

What about Joel 3:15?

Joe 3:9-16 YLT
(9) Proclaim ye this among nations, Sanctify a war, stir up the mighty ones, Come nigh, come up, let all the men of war.
(10) Beat your ploughshares to swords, And your pruning-hooks to javelins, Let the weak say, ‘I am mighty.’
(11) Haste, and come in, all ye nations round, And be gathered together, Thither cause to come down, O Jehovah, Thy mighty ones.
(12) Wake and come up let the nations unto the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I sit to judge all the nations around.
(13) Send ye forth a sickle, For ripened hath harvest, Come in, come down, for filled hath been the press, Overflowed hath wine-presses, For great is their wickedness.
(14) Multitudes, multitudes are in the valley of decision, For near is the day of Jehovah in the valley of decision.
(15) Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining.
(16) And Jehovah from Zion doth roar, And from Jerusalem giveth forth His voice, And shaken have the heavens and earth, And Jehovah is a refuge to his people, And a stronghold to sons of Israel.​

The word “gathered” in v15 can also mean “withdrawn” according to Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions.

It is clear in this translation that the “darkening” and “shaking” of heavens and earth happened earlier than the time setting of v9-v14. It is more probable than not that this is of the 6th Seal again.

What about the “darkening” in the 4th Trumpet?

At the time of the 4th Trumpet, GT is already past because the 6th Seal which portrays the multitudes who came out of the GT comes first before the Trumpets.

What about the “darkness, gloom, clouds, and thick darkness” in the Day of the Lord?

Zep 1:14-16 ESV
(14) The great day of the LORD is near, near and hastening fast; the sound of the day of the LORD is bitter; the mighty man cries aloud there.
(15) A day of wrath is that day, a day of distress and anguish, a day of ruin and devastation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
(16) a day of trumpet blast and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the lofty battlements.​

“Distress” and “anguish” are also mentioned in the above passage and they are mentioned first, then, the “darkness, gloom, clouds, and thick darkness.” A Bible reader might think that “distress and anguish” in the passage are the “Great Tribulation” which precedes the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars as prophesied by the Lord in Mat 24:29. But according to the 6th Seal, the particular “darkening of heavenly hosts” that comes immediately after the GT is:

Rev 6:12-13 KJV
(12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;(13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.​

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[MrBebe]

...continued from Post #1

It is the nearest darkening of heavenly hosts from the passage:

(Rev 7:14 KJV) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

The particular darkening of heavenly hosts in Rev 6:12-13, according to Joel, will come:

(Joe 2:31 KJV) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

That’s it. So, the “distress and anguish” and the “darkness, gloom, clouds, and thick darkness” in Zeph 1:15 which will occur at the Day of the Lord are NOT the Great Tribulation and the darkening of heavenly hosts described in Mat 24:29! Moreover, the “darkness, gloom, clouds, and thick darkness” during the Day of the Lord seems to be denoting NOT a time AFTER a tribulation, read the passage below:

Amo 5:18-20 KJV
(18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
(19) As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
(20) Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?​

It can be seen from the passage above that the “darkness” or “very dark darkness” during the Day of the Lord is itself denoting tribulation – the GT should have ended at the time the sun and the moon are darkened as described in Mat 24:29. Again, the “distress and anguish” and the “darkness, gloom, clouds, and thick darkness” in Zeph 1:15 are NOT the Great Tribulation and the darkening of heavenly hosts in Mat 24:29. The GT occurs BEFORE the Day of the Lord!

Let’s go back to “labor pains” of the Olivet Prophecy.

History tells that things of Mat 24:7-8 intensified when fearful things and terrors came.

– The wars of conquests by Islamic armies AFTER their early expansion.

Please adjust the video playback to 11min and 35 sec​

– The terrors and killings that resulted from refusal to convert to Islam. At first, only the polytheistic peoples were forced to convert but there were times that “People of the Book” were also forced to convert.

Killings for Islam​

– The war of conquests by Genghis Khan in the 13th century AD and of the other Mongolian leaders after him. Here’s a quote from http://www.history.com/news/history-…t-genghis-khan:

“While it’s impossible to know for sure how many people perished during the Mongol conquests, many historians put the number at somewhere around 40 million. Censuses from the Middle Ages show that the population of China plummeted by tens of millions during the Khan’s lifetime, and scholars estimate that he may have killed a full three-fourths of modern-day Iran’s population during his war with the Khwarezmid Empire. All told, the Mongols’ attacks may have reduced the entire world population by as much as 11 percent.”​

– Famines

1783–84 Chalisa India 11 million
1789–92 Doji bara India 11 million
1810, 1811, 1846, and 1849 China 45 million.
1850–73 As a result of imperialism, the Opium Wars and the Taiping Rebellion, drought, and famine, the population of China dropped by more than 60 million
There are more. See List of famines​

– The Black Death (Bubonic Plague) of the 14th century.

Black Death | Causes, Facts, and Consequences
The Black Death, 1348
The Black Death: The Greatest Catastrophe Ever | History Today​

– 1918–1920 Influenza Pandemic (more deaths than World War 1)

https://www.britannica.com/event/inf…c-of-1918-1919
See List of epidemics​

– World War 1

– World War 2

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[MrBebe]

...continued from Post #2

The Day of Jacob’s Trouble​

Jer 30:1-3 KJV

(1) The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
(2) Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
(3) For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.​

Jeremiah opens the chapter by telling that word came to him from the Lord. He relates in v2 how God told him to write in a book what God had spoken to him (earlier). He continues (v3) to tell the other things that God has told him concerning the restoration of Israel and Judah to the land that was given to their ancestors. These things together with many events that God told to Jeremiah in the other parts of chapter 30 and 31 are widely believe to happen at the Day of the Lord.

(Jer 30:4 KJV) And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.​

Jeremiah states in this verse that what is to follow is what God had spoken to him and told him to write in a book.

Jer 30:5-7 KJV
(5) For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace
(6) Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
(7) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.​

Clearly, the passage above is about the day of Jacob’s trouble.

Jer 30:8-9 KJV
(8) For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
(9) But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.​

Verse 8 tells when the yoke will be broken and when the bonds will be burst which will mean that strangers will no more serve themselves of him. Let’s understand first the “yoke.”

(Jer 27:2 KJV) Thus saith the LORD to me; Make thee bonds and yokes, and put them upon thy neck,​

The physical yoke on Jeremiah’s neck was broken off by Hananiah in Jer 28:10-11. Hananiah died in that same year (Jer 28:17). It is God who decides when the symbolic yoke will be broken off in Jeremiah’s neck.

Going back to Jer 30:8, there will be a problem understanding this verse if we will treat it as part of what was spoken and written and that is because of the two possessive pronouns “thy” and the last pronoun “him.” There are two possibilities here:

1. If the two “thy” are “Jacob’s,” then who is “him” that will serve no more?
2. If the two “thy” are “Jeremiah’s,” then the “him” can be “of Jacob” which v9 confirms.

The 2nd proposition makes sense and that would mean, in verse 8, God is talking NOT to Jacob but to Jeremiah who was given the sign of the yoke in chapter 27. This in turn is telling that verse 8 is not part of what was spoken earlier by God and written by Jeremiah.

Which day does “In that day” (v8) refers to? Surely, it can refer to the day of the return of Israel and Judah to their land in v3 – in the Day of the Lord. “In that day” referring also to day of Jacob’s trouble depends on whether or not Jacob’s trouble really occursafter the restoration. But if it really occurs at that time, why present it in this way? There is something that needs to be considered.

We have seen the problem in understanding v8 because of the grammatical persons of the pronouns used in the verse but that was already resolved. The last pronoun in the 3rd person is understood to be Jacob. In v9, the 3rd person (plural) pronoun refers to Israel and Judah or their people. Take note, in these two verses, God is speaking of their restoration or other events at the time of their restoration. Let’s continue with the other verses but let’s not include the 1st pronouns referring to God in our study.

(Jer 30:10 KJV) Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.​

The pronouns in the 1st part of the verse changed to 2nd person from 3rd person in v8-9. This part is speaking of the saving of Jacob from his trouble (see again last clause of v7).

In the 2nd part of the verse, all the pronouns are in their 3rd person again. This part is speaking again of Jacob’s restoration.

NOTE well, the transition from the 2nd to 3rd person of pronouns in this verse:

“I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity”

There is a time distance of at least a generation FROM the time of the saving of Jacob from afar (his trouble) TO the time of the saving of his seed from the land of their captivity (Zech 14?). It can be more!!! The quote, as for me, is not a futuristic idiom depicting the same time or event and that is because of the switching of pronoun persons and what their contexts say.

Jer 30:11-17 KJV
(11) For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
(12) For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
(13) There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
(14) All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
(15) Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
(16) Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thineadversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil theeshall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
(17) For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.​

The pronouns switched back to 2nd person in v11 up to v17. Again, in this passage, it is talking about the saving of Jacob (from his trouble), about his chastisement, and about the fate of those who scattered, devoured, and plundered them. Look at v17, if Jacob’s Trouble happens AFTER his restoration to the land of his ancestors, would he be called an OUTCAST?

In v14, the enemy or cruel one can only be Satan who is portrayed as the Red Dragon in Revelation 12.

Note that the (future then) thread of time in the passage above progresses as can be seen in v16 and first part of v17 but Jacob’s trouble itself is obviously past in those verses.

Jer 30:18-21 KJV
(18) Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob’s tents, and have mercy on his dwelling places; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
(19) And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
(20) Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
(21) And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.​

Pronouns in this passage are in their 3rd person. Once again, it is speaking about the restoration of Jacob. It can be seen in v19 to v20 that this passage’s (future) thread of time also progresses, then in v21 it returns … to meet the time thread that originated from Jacob’s trouble?

(Jer 30:22 KJV) And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.​

Yes, but up to the 1st verse of the next chapter, their time threads are shown to be separate.

(Jer 31:1 KJV) At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.​

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[MrBebe]

...continued from Post #3

Let’s go back to what was spoken (earlier) and written because there are other hints in there about the time of its occurrence:

Jer 30:4-7 KJV
(4) And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
(5) For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.(6) Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
(7) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.​

Definition of “trembling” in v5:

H2731 חֲרָדָה chărâdâh khar-aw-daw’
Feminine of H2730; fear, anxiety: – care, X exceedingly, fear, quaking, trembling.​

Definition of “fear” in v5:

H6343 פַּחַד pachad pakh’-ad
From H6342; a (sudden) alarm (properly the object feared, by implication the feeling): – dread (-ful), fear, (thing) great [fear, -ly feared], terror.​

Remember “fearful things and terrors” from Luke 21:11? In here, they were heard.

“woman in travail” in v6: the “labor pains” in Mat 24:8

“paleness” in v6: the color of the horse in the 4th Seal

“that day is great, so that none is like it” in v7; yes there is none like it:

(Dan 12:1 KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.​

(Mat 24:21 KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

The GT is the great wrath of the Devil:

(Rev 12:12 KJV) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.​

The Devil is having a great wrath, aware that he has but a short time and his time is short maybe because:

(Mat 24:22 KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.​

Jacob’s trouble (World War 2) is just a part of the GT or the wrath of the Devil. It’s the last part of his wrath according to Revelation 12 and history. Here are some verses about the Dragon (Satan or Devil) and the Woman of Revelation 12:

Rev 12:15-16 KJV
(15) And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
(16) And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.​

The flood that came out of the mouth of the Dragon could very well be the armies of Nazi Germany and its ally countries in Europe during World War 2. They almost swept off all of Europe at that time. When only Britain was left fighting the Germans, Hitler turned his attention to the east – the Soviet Union. He disregarded his country’s non-aggression pact with the Soviets and invaded their country. The vastness of the land of the Soviet Union swallowed up much of the invading countries’ armies and equipments easing up the pressure on Great Britain. This is how the Woman of Revelation 12 was helped by the symbolic earth in verse 16.

(Rev 12:17 KJV) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

After much of the armies of the Axis Powers in Europe was swallowed up by the land of the Soviet Union and while both sides were fighting each other, the Dragon was wroth with the Woman. He went away and made war with the other seed or children of the Woman. The other area of the globe that a “major” war had broke out after the invasion of the Soviet Union was in the Asia Pacific region. On December 7, 1941, more than six months after the Soviet Union was invaded, Japan attacked and bombed Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, and the Dragon’s war on God’s other people started.

The Holocaust was part of World War 2.

And if those days were not cut short, we would not be alive today. Nuclear weapons were first used in World War 2.

Let’s go back to Jeremiah 30. “Jacob’s trouble” was INSERTED (by God’s order) at the start of the word that came to Jeremiah. (It can even be considered to be before the “word” came to Jeremiah in v1 because what was to be written was already spoken to him.) It is from that part of the wrath of the Devil (Jacob’s trouble) that the time thread of 2nd person pronouns came.

Whereas the time thread of 3rd person pronouns came as a result of the (Great) Wrath of God.

Jer 30:23-24 ASV
(23) Behold, the tempest of Jehovah, even his wrath, is gone forth, a sweeping tempest: it shall burst upon the head of the wicked.
(24) The fierce anger of Jehovah shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall understand it.​

The Great Wrath of the Devil and the Great Wrath of God don’t overlap each other. According to the 6th Seal:

Rev 6:16-17 KJV
(16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?​

The great day of the wrath has come but the “actual” Great Wrath of God has not yet come; it is just looming. Continuing to the next part of the 6th Seal:

Rev 7:1-3 Murdock
(1) And after these things I saw four angels, who stood on the four corners of the earth; and they held the four winds of the earth, so that the wind blew not on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on the trees.
(2) And I saw another angel, and he came up from the rising of the sun; and he had the seal of the living God; and he called out, with a loud voice, to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying:
(3) Hurt ye not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the servants of our God upon their foreheads.​

Now, in Rev 7:13-14, also a part of the 6th Seal, it is said:

Rev 7:13-14 Murdock
(13) And one of the Elders turned, and said to me: These who are clothed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?
(14) And I said to him: My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me: These are they who came from great affliction; and they have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

GT or the Devil’s wrath is already past at this point in time and even at the start of the 6th Seal; when the sun became black, like sackcloth of hair; and the whole moon became like blood, and the stars of heaven fell on the earth, as a fig-tree casteth its unripe figs, when it is shaken by a strong wind. This darkening is the darkening in Mat 24:29 which immediately follows the GT (4th Seal). Obviously, there are many events from the 6th Seal up to the coming of the Lord just before the 7th Trumpet is to be sounded that are not included in:

Mat 24:29-31 KJV
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Are we going to ignore these Biblical facts?

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[MrBebe]

continued from Post #4

Zechariah 14​

Zec 14:1-2 KJV

(1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.​

The captivity of Jerusalem in this chapter of Zechariah is not during the GT. It is during God’s Wrath – at the time of the 6th Bowl (Rev 16:16). Doesn’t this particular captivity of Jerusalem precede the “restoration” in Jeremiah chapter 30?

After this captivity, false prophets will be like those in Zech 13:2-6 and not like those in Mat 24:23-26 who will appear after the GT. The word of God about shepherds who destroy and scatter His sheep can be found in Jer 23:1-4.

Let’s go back to “labor pains again.”

As far as I know, there is no passage in the Bible that explicitly tells how long the GT would be, but the “beginning” of labor pains described in Mat 24:6-7 gives us an idea of how long it would be. GT is understood to be inside this “labor pains” – in the intensified part of it and this part can logically be expected to happen as the continuation of the “beginning” in a matter of years or decades but not more than a thousand years. That is signified by the warning of our Lord Yeshua to urgently flee when they see the abomination of desolation standing up. Here’s an interesting thing: from 685 AD up to 1945 are 1260 years.

There’s another topic posted in this forum which proves further the time of occurrence of the GT. Here’s the link: The Aftermath of The Great Tribulation (GT)

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