Omnipresence of God

[DNB]

Hey, it's not me saying it . . .

Exodus 24:9 "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink."

I'm a fairly simple guy, I read it, I believe it, and it makes complete sense to me.

Much love!

Well, it shouldn't make complete sense to you, marks? What does God look like?
What colour are his eyes, does he even have eyes? How big are his feet, does he even have feet, etc...?
Don't be simple, be wise!

 

[marks]

Well, it shouldn't make complete sense to you, marks? What does God look like?
What colour are his eyes, does he even have eyes? How big are his feet, does he even have feet, etc...?
Don't be simple, be wise!

You can do better than that.

 

[DNB]

You can do better than that.

You're sounding silly, and are getting annoying, ...start explaining your position (if you can), or don't waste my time on this (I've explained the reasons for my position).

 

[marks]

You're sounding silly, and are getting annoying, ...start explaining your position (if you can), or don't waste my time on this (I've explained the reasons for my position).

I'm just saying . . . let's rise above this sort of thing.

Hey, it's not me saying it . . .

Exodus 24:9 "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink."

I'm a fairly simple guy, I read it, I believe it, and it makes complete sense to me.

Much love!

They saw God. Do you believe this means what it says? This is one of the more serious questions of all. If you believe what it says, as I do, the discussion goes one way. If you think it means something else, then what?

I believe it means exactly what it said, that they saw the Angel of the LORD, God's messenger to humanity, the One Who would be incarnated, Who would be named Jesus.

I find so much of the time that doctrinal disagreements seem to always come down to someone saying, well, it says this, but it actually means that. Is this one of those times?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

how God gave those coats of skins to them without them dying?

i would say that Yah made them, just like Scripture says

How had they hid from Him unless they had seen Him come to the Garden?

well or heard Him, anyway, but to your point one might hide even in anticipation, i guess

Yet they still live?

ah well, assuming they did actually see Him, it is an allegory anyway, i wouldnt be taking that as literal history, and i would be understanding that in the context of other vv that assures us Yah cannot be known, nor "seen," rather than just ignoring those

and do why did Moses said what he had?

i would say that Moses was speaking wisdom hidden from the wise, that is not meant to negate no one can see god and live, Exodus 33:20 ?

For as you have even said, Scripture does not contradict itself--except apparently to literal readers, who i guess just mostly ignore any Scriptures that dont fit with their agenda, problem solved eh

and do why did Moses said what he had?

sorry, you havent quoted what Moses said, but fwiw i can say that Moses was likely speaking...in a dialect you are not familiar with yet, namely the naive one, and what Moses meant in whatever he said is therefore likely hard to interpret, or at least easy to misinterpret.

but He did allow Moses to see the backside of Him and he did not exactly die then either as per your saying

wasnt my saying, sorry, but i would argue that Moses was a special case anyway

 

[marks]

ah well, assuming they did actually see Him, it is an allegory anyway, i wouldnt be taking that as literal history, and i would be understanding that in the context of other vv that assures us Yah cannot be known, nor "seen," rather than just ignoring those

I guess without reaching a harmonious understanding you just have to choose which ones you are willing to ignore, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

I can say men had seen God

well, you can sure say it all you like, but then as you say Scripture does not contradict itself, yet you now have a contradiction, yes? I would suggest that "saw" is being used in the spiritual sense, just like when we say "oh, i see what you mean"

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess without reaching a harmonious understanding you just have to choose which ones you are willing to ignore, right?

ha well i guess that is the goto, but i would not suggest that myself. Imo it is better to learn the dialect?

 

[marks]

ha well i guess that is the goto, but i would not suggest that myself. Imo it is better to learn the dialect?

Do you mean the one that makes nothing true?

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you mean the one that makes nothing true?

ha or everything maybe...but again here, i dont mean anything ok, and the directions for this are all embedded in Scripture, manna = what is it? and etc for precisely the reasons we are now discussing, and there is lots of "etc" too i guess, as lightning strikes from east to west, and other embeds that we mostly just overlook, until they become pertinent?

but i guess ya, they do have the effect of nullifying previous beliefs, too, sometimes. Dunno if it helps any, but that only seems to be a problem to those still trying to save their souls.

and if i could teach the dialect i sure would, ok, not trying to be coy or anything; i just havent really learned it very well yet, and it is very foreign to me, one raised with satans dialect

 

[amadeus]

You should know the poster's position on how he relies on scripture before you defend what he is posting.

You are new here. I have been here for several years as has my friend @bbyrd009 . I don't defend everything that he posts, and even when I definitely agree with him I don't always say anything one way or the other. I take things one at the time as they come... and this includes people. A lot of people don't understand bbyrd009, but he does sometimes bring out the truth of a matter, for better or for worse. The sword cuts from either side. If more believers asked and tried to honestly answer many of his questions, probably they would be better for it.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Quoting scripture does not make it the Word of God any more than paraphrasing what is in our heart makes it Not the Word of God. Without the quickening of the Holy Spirit, it can still be quite dead! When satan quoted scripture to Jesus it was definitely in error and had no Life in it. When a man who has received the Holy Spirit is quenching the Holy Spirit his Bible quotations may also be dead!

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

I'll let him speak for himself.

The Truth that makes us free is Jesus! In Him the scriptures were Alive! In others that is not always the case. You apparently know your Bible so you should have read that already. Did you understand it?

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4

Where is God's mouth?

 

[bbyrd009]

exactly

 

[marks]

ha or everything maybe...but again here, i dont mean anything ok, and the directions for this are all embedded in Scripture, manna = what is it? and etc for precisely the reasons we are now discussing, and there is lots of "etc" too i guess, as lightning strikes from east to west, and other embeds that we mostly just overlook, until they become pertinent?

but i guess ya, they do have the effect of nullifying previous beliefs, too, sometimes.

Manna isn't the destination, I think.

Many will come from the east and west, what does that mean? What is it? If you only ask the question, and never proceed to an answer, then what is the benefit? Spend our lives questioning literally everything? Questioning everything literal?

There is an east, and there is a west, and many will come from both. Or is it that there is an eastern and a western, no wait, it says, east and west.

You can't store manna.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you mean the one that makes nothing true?

fwiw we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat! is in that same vein

 

[marks]

fwiw we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat! is in that same vein

Me, I never tire of seeking from God. But what is it you are saying here?

 

[marks]

When satan quoted scripture to Jesus it was definitely in error and had no Life in it.

Satan misapplies Scripture, and rather than finding fault in the devil, you find the fault in the Bible?

That makes no sense to me.

 

[Enow]

Good question, I do not know exactly. I would think that, since God is Spirit, infinite and transcendent, that whatever they saw, was just a material manifestation of his power. Not an avatar, as if God's being was literally behind the avatar, but like the cloud of smoke and fire that directed the Israelites way during the Exodus.
Just like Moses saw God's back, or Elijah saw God in the whisper. God does not have a back, and if he did, how big would it be, i.e. the size of the earth, Jupiter, the Milky Way, Orion, ...you get the point?
Whatever the elders of Israel saw, was so small and visible, that it clearly wasn't God, was it?
So, I really don't know, but what I do know, is that God is larger than the universe, and that he is not corporeal. Therefore, I would think that God just manipulated material matter in a supernatural way, that let those around him know that he was in their presence, that is, he was 'with them' and was acting in their favour.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus saying "God is a Spirit" is not testifying that He does not have a celestial body. Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman at the well in answering her question about where they are supposed to go to worship God at. Jesus said a time will come when worshippers shall come to God the Father to worship IN spirit and IN truth, and so God is a Spirit is inferring His omnipresence in the reality of the believer where He is with us always as IN the Holy Spirit & IN Jesus Christ so we can come to God the Father anywhere to worship Him by coming to and honoring the Son in worship. John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13

As it is, and only God can help us see the truth in His words to grasp this; but the Father has a celestial body as the Son did before His incarnation for why the request to make man in "our image" and "after our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 was made and yet when God did perform the act by having made man in His image and after His likeness in Genesis 1:27, He did so as the Three Witnesses within the One God in establishing a word in creation by the Word of God.

Jesus did say that in the future, we will not need to ask Him to ask the Father for He will openly show us the Father to ask Him directly.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Hard to imagine but if we picture being in the bosom of God for where He is, would we be inside of that Triune God to see Two of the Three Persons in that One God? I do wonder, and maybe we will all know for sure when we see Him face to face and not just the Son's.

As it is, God is a Spirit is being applied wrong by many believers and churches when it is about being able to worship God anywhere now and when the request for us to be created was in a plural sense, signifying that God has a body too, we really should believe that, regardless of being hard to understand.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[bbyrd009]

Manna isn't the destination, I think.

yeh, i had to stop thinking to get that one, myself! Eat the manna, imo, it is the destination

Many will come from the east and west, what does that mean?

that is a different v

What is it? If you only ask the question, and never proceed to an answer, then what is the benefit?

imo to put one in the mindset of a little child

Spend our lives questioning literally everything? Questioning everything literal?

well, not exactly i guess, collect only enough for that day, and the rest of the guidelines, but imo the point is we tend to make laws instead of guidelines, that we then attempt to apply to every situation? But mostly we read that way too, instead of how did you not know I was not talking about bread? iow the way that Scripture was written

 

[marks]

imo to put one in the mindset of a little child

I think that is where we begin.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is an east, and there is a west, and many will come from both. Or is it that there is an eastern and a western, no wait, it says, east and west.

many will come from east and west might be interpreted "ppl other than those with whom you are acquainted and approve of will be there at table with Abraham."