On How to be saved

[amadeus]

I quoted these verses in response to the following statement:



In order to say that yes we do decide what is right and wrong...that is what judgment basically is.

And being led by the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with making the correct judgement at all?

 

[amadeus]

Whether I am on milk or solid food, the judgment of the Lord holds fast and is the same...understanding the judgment of God is the things of being weaned from the breast...basic doctrines!

The judgment of the Lord holds fast, but that does not mean that you know what it is. Only as our "eyes" are opened by the Holy Spirit can we and do we move from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing "face to face". Until we can always see "face to face" [apostle Paul admittedly could not] we must be led by the hand each step of the way. Our leader is the Holy Spirit, if we are walking correctly... if we are understanding correctly what is written in the scriptures...

How basic is that?

 

[amadeus]

Indeed this is true; while it would not be true of me if I refuse to admit the possibility that God's word is in error on any given point.

Jesus dead on the cross prior to his resurrection was dead. He was like an unopened unread Bible. He was like a Bible read by person without the Holy Spirit quickening within him what he had read. Sincere atheists read the Bible and do not understand what they read.

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith Pay attention to what @bbyrd009 is saying. This is perhaps the primary reason you disagree with others and they disagree with you even though you and they are students of the same Bible.

@bbyrd009 is often too vague to be able to understand what he is saying; so more often than not, I just ignore him. What is it that you think he is saying by that?

We are students of the same Bible; that may only be partially true; for I find that the kjv has distinguished differences in its message when we look up certain verses; in other Bibles what is clearly said in the kjv is compromised because another version uses a different word that robs it of its clear meaning.

Also, a reason why they may disagree with me is because they have a different spirit than the Holy Ghost that I know the Lord has given to me. I have received the Holy Ghost as an absolute promise as the result of fulfilling the condition mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 2:38; if they have not also fulfilled that condition then they only have a possibility of having the same Holy Ghost as God has given to me.

Also, I am aware that we are all at different places in our understanding of the word of the Lord as we have all come across certain portions of the word at different times in our lives and they have ministered to each one of us differently based on the circumstances and the timing of how and when we read the scriptures.

In the case in point, I mentioned about four scripture passages that speak of how the fear of the LORD is an important motivation for believers. Now if the person to whom I was speaking would have looked up those passages and seen them for what they are; as statements of scriptural truth, to be believed; then there would be no further problem. Or, if they could come up with a scriptural argument as to why the conclusion that I made from those scriptures was faulty, again, there would be no further problem.

But instead, the person in question basically accused me of pontificating and said that I didn't have the right to tell her what the word of God says! So then, that person is in the category that both of us have spoken of, the kind that is unwilling to change their point of view because their opinion is more important than the word of the Lord, the kind of person that, as you have said, is unwilling to seriously question their own beliefs.

Now if there is one belief that I myself am unwilling to question, and that is my belief that the Bible is the word of God: then I stand as one who questions all beliefs held by me that may be contrary to it.

I am not a man who has not studied the Bible extensively enough to the point that I do not have confidence that I know its basic message and what it basically says on almost every issue. I feel that God did not write it in such a manner as to make its message vague or imprecise. It is not a book that can give you an impression other than its intended message if you go to it desiring from the author that He give you the interpretation as you read it; illuminating its meaning to you as you go along.

Of course there are still things to be learned; however what is to be learned is to be built upon what is already learned; it will in no way demolish what has already been learned through the study that has already been made with deep reliance on the Holy Spirit.

 

[brakelite]

the audacity is in interpreting a literal ritual baptism imo, but that is not realized until later, as Scripture even brings out, later

Imo the spiritual doesn't negate the literal, but is demonstrated by the literal. Of all people Jesus, one would think, could have passed by John or told him to cease and desist because ritualism was no longer the thing. Yet instead He not only was baptised by him, but told the disciples to baptise others... And they did, as demonstrated by Paul, Apollo's etc.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus dead on the cross prior to his resurrection was dead. He was like an unopened unread Bible. He was like a Bible read by person without the Holy Spirit quickening within him what he had read. Sincere atheists read the Bible and do not understand what they read.

Jesus is alive to me; and so is my Bible when I read it.

 

[brakelite]

Indeed...if someone knows what the scripture says and does not believe it, or turns a blind eye to scriptures (that have been referenced in order to correct an incorrect view on something), that person may very well still believe that they are right...however they cannot honestly call themselves Bible-believing Christians if they hold an opinion that is contrary to the word of God, knowing that the word of God is contrary to their opinion...their position would be that they believe themselves to be right but God to be wrong...therefore can they even claim John 3:16 for themselves in light of John 3:36 (kjv)?

Sorry, but having a full or complete understanding of scripture a Christian does not make. If understanding all scripture was a criteria for being saved, then none of us have any hope. The Word of God will continue to be our study throughout eternity. It/He will never be exhausted.

 

[farouk]

Jesus is alive to me; and so is my Bible when I read it.

Keep up its reading!

The more we get into the Word, the more we see the Lord Jesus!

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry, but having a full or complete understanding of scripture a Christian does not make. If understanding all scripture was a criteria for being saved, then none of us have any hope. The Word of God will continue to be our study throughout eternity. It/He will never be exhausted.

However, what does make a Christian is an attitude of surrender to the doctrines of the Bible as you currently see them. As God gives you more understanding, you alter your opinion to fit what the Lord is showing you about Himself. But if at any time you begin to reject the word of God as you understand it because you don't like what is said, then you are rejecting the words of Jesus and in a sense rejecting Him. We are constantly being changed in our opinions like clay on a potter's wheel; while the longer we are on it, the more consistently our beliefs stay the same. If the clay at any time becomes unwilling to be molded by the potter, the next step is for it to be marred in the potter's hand and to be made useless.

 

[justbyfaith]

Keep up its reading!

The more we get into the Word, the more we see the Lord Jesus!

Amen; and I am also open to having my opinions to be changed by what I read as God continues to alter my understanding slightly all of the time, while never causing me to depart from the truth as a Rock on which I stand, the Lord Jesus Christ...

 

[farouk]

Amen; and I am also open to having my opinions to be changed by what I read as God continues to alter my understanding slightly all of the time, while never causing me to depart from the truth as a Rock on which I stand, the Lord Jesus Christ...

Good post!

 

[Helen]

Sorry, but having a full or complete understanding of scripture a Christian does not make. If understanding all scripture was a criteria for being saved, then none of us have any hope. The Word of God will continue to be our study throughout eternity. It/He will never be exhausted.

AMEN!! Well said. Sad that they can so often not be understood or received though.
When a person is so confident that they are the only one who has everything right...their inner ear is 'heavy' and dull of hearing.
Thank you for your Wise words.

...

 

[brakelite]

AMEN!! Well said. Sad that they can so often not be understood or received though.
When a person is so confident that they are the only one who has everything right...their inner ear is 'heavy' and dull of hearing.
Thank you for your Wise words.

...View attachment 4825

Too generous. Glory to God.

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009 is often too vague to be able to understand what he is saying; so more often than not, I just ignore him. What is it that you think he is saying by that?

Actually he is not vague to me on many issues he brings up. I have encountered many the same questions in my experience and been given many of the same answers. On some things, he is too deep for me which means I don't understand the issue or in those cases, him. Whether I need to or not, is another question, isn't it?

What he does with many of his short provocations is stirs people up. This often is a good thing. It reminds me of what God did at the tower of Babel and why He did it. Some question whether our friend @bbyrd009 is a follower of Christ, but usually that is because they are stuck on certain mainline organizational essentials most would not and could not find in scripture if they had not already been spoon-fed the ingredients by parents or pastors or other labeled ministers. You, in the oneness of God are already outside of much of that, which is why you also provoke some people against you. I was there as well. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in the UPC in 1976 and they taught me at age 32 for the first time in my life to read the Bible. I started talking in tongues, a gift from God then, and for many years now it has been a daily part of my prayer life.

Naturally, I read and prefer the KJV in English. I guess I am different in that I also read the Luther Bible in German and the Reina Valera Bible in Spanish. It does add to my perspectives, but it does not make me right either.

We are students of the same Bible; that may only be partially true; for I find that the kjv has distinguished differences in its message when we look up certain verses; in other Bibles what is clearly said in the kjv is compromised because another version uses a different word that robs it of its clear meaning.

I won't argue against my preferred English Bible here, although it also has its problems. God is able to deal with all such problems if we allow Him through the Holy Ghost to lead us.

Also, a reason why they may disagree with me is because they have a different spirit than the Holy Ghost that I know the Lord has given to me. I have received the Holy Ghost as an absolute promise as the result of fulfilling the condition mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 2:38; if they have not also fulfilled that condition then they only have a possibility of having the same Holy Ghost as God has given to me.

Back in my early days when I was young and foolish I used to know from memory Acts 2:38 in Spanish and I tried so hard to impress someone as if it were important... as if I were important. It took a long time for God to bring me out of that pride.

Yes, I know about Acts 2:38 and the emphasis placed on it by some believers. After some years in the UPC I spent time also in two other oneness groups, one was primarily Hispanic and the other was primarily black. My family and I had the distinction of being the only white members of a very black assembly [about 400 on Sunday mornings] at that time.

Also, I am aware that we are all at different places in our understanding of the word of the Lord as we have all come across certain portions of the word at different times in our lives and they have ministered to each one of us differently based on the circumstances and the timing of how and when we read the scriptures.

Yes, God uses people as His need requires in many different ways and of course as the people yield themselves to Him. He twists no arms.

In the case in point, I mentioned about four scripture passages that speak of how the fear of the LORD is an important motivation for believers. Now if the person to whom I was speaking would have looked up those passages and seen them for what they are; as statements of scriptural truth, to be believed; then there would be no further problem. Or, if they could come up with a scriptural argument as to why the conclusion that I made from those scriptures was faulty, again, there would be no further problem.

I am unfamiliar with the specifics so I withhold any opinions or even observations here.

But instead, the person in question basically accused me of pontificating and said that I didn't have the right to tell her what the word of God says! So then, that person is in the category that both of us have spoken of, the kind that is unwilling to change their point of view because their opinion is more important than the word of the Lord, the kind of person that, as you have said, is unwilling to seriously question their own beliefs.

Well no one has an absolute right to dictate what a person believes... not even if he is right and the other person is wrong. Jesus did some things we cannot do for the most part, but he also did not demand obedience or belief from people although he may well have desired it from them. The willingness to question one's own beliefs should be a two way street to allow any real discussion. If a person only declares but never really pays attention to the other person, I would hesitate to expect much communication.

Now if there is one belief that I myself am unwilling to question, and that is my belief that the Bible is the word of God: then I stand as one who questions all beliefs held by me that may be contrary to it.

It is my belief that the written Bible was written by men as they inspired by God to do so. It is also my belief, that for a person to receive the inspired message that person must be similarly inspired by God to receive and understand.

I am not a man who has not studied the Bible extensively enough to the point that I do not have confidence that I know its basic message and what it basically says on almost every issue. I feel that God did not write it in such a manner as to make its message vague or imprecise. It is not a book that can give you an impression other than its intended message if you go to it desiring from the author that He give you the interpretation as you read it; illuminating its meaning to you as you go along.

The message is still as seeing through a glass darkly until our vision is clearly by another touch or more than one more...

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

When is the "then" and how does one get to it?

"Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." Prov 29:18

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

What is the eyesalve, but the Holy Ghost?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

How many times will the Lord need to touch our eyes before we may say we have come to the "then" of I Cor 13:12?

Of course there are still things to be learned; however what is to be learned is to be built upon what is already learned; it will in no way demolish what has already been learned through the study that has already been made with deep reliance on the Holy Spirit.

This is where we need to learn to go back to the lowest room each and every time. We don't build on what we already have, we let Him build or rebuild from the ground up as He requires as per Luke 14:8-11

 

[amadeus]

Did those changes happen because you returned to God or as the result of you being away from Him?

Those changes happened because I went all the way to the bottom again [that lowest room of Luke 14:8-11] and prayed for God's will and agreed to do things His Way no matter what the cost. The cost was high as the flesh understands it. No instantaneous changes, but beginning then in 2002 the changes occurred through surrender to Him. I have a tremendous testimony on the miracles of God in my life as God let me or brought me back in... Too lengthy to repeat here. It is certainly posted on this forum although at the moment I could not tell you where.

 

[TruthBeliever]

The Truth will always stand...

 

[mjrhealth]

If someone is "hard-headed" about a doctrine that is not backed up by the word of the Lord, then they are in the wrong. They are holding their own opinion to be the final authority rather than the word of God.

And I have asked this so many time, if you where studying something and God told you that you where wrong, who would you believe, God or the Bible?? So few are willing to answer that question. Christians demand scripture, so the devil gives it to them, he knows the bible far better than any man, remember Jesus in the desert.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

God set Jesus, His Word above Him self,

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

it is man, that demands God agree with the bible, " I shall have no other Gods before ME" God gave us His Spirit so we could all learn from Him

Joh_6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

But one must first open the door,

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

so few willing to open and let Him in.

None of us are right, God is right, Jesus is right, and the Holy Spirit who can only say and do what He is told is right, because they are all in agreement, but few agree with God.

I have being shown for 17 years why I am wrong about Him by Him, religion and man have mocked Him for years.

 

[n2thelight]

Saved from what?

 

[justbyfaith]

And I have asked this so many time, if you where studying something and God told you that you where wrong, who would you believe, God or the Bible?? So few are willing to answer that question. Christians demand scripture, so the devil gives it to them, he knows the bible far better than any man, remember Jesus in the desert.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

God set Jesus, His Word above Him self,

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

it is man, that demands God agree with the bible, " I shall have no other Gods before ME" God gave us His Spirit so we could all learn from Him

Joh_6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

But one must first open the door,

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

so few willing to open and let Him in.

None of us are right, God is right, Jesus is right, and the Holy Spirit who can only say and do what He is told is right, because they are all in agreement, but few agree with God.

I have being shown for 17 years why I am wrong about Him by Him, religion and man have mocked Him for years.

He has magnified His word above all His name (Psalms 138:2).

 

[justbyfaith]

Saved from what?

Hell and the lake of fire. (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15, etc.)