ON THE FENCE ABOUT REPENTANCE?

[Grailhunter]

Most of us here, or at least a good many were taught to ask God for forgiveness for every, single sin we committed...chewing gum in class, talking and not paying attention and the myriad of things a child does that could be considered "sin". I kind of think that comes from Catholicism as, we were brought up Catholic. So, it's pretty tough after a lifelong habit of asking forgiveness to suddenly not do that.

Do you know that a Nun can pick you up off the ground by your cheek?

Repentance to me is simple, just have to turn around and walk toward Christ when we are about to do something He would not approve of. Just once?? Don't know. It seems some can repent of the bigger sins in their life but, the "smaller" ones are the ones that get ya! Smaller to US, not God. If habitual, say an addiction that comes around to haunt you time and time again. It is hard to think that someone who I was very close to (my mom) who was the kindest, very God loving and bore nothing BUT the fruit of The Spirit her whole life, peacekeeping gentle and most loving of anyone I have ever known, to think that God sent her to hell because she fell into such a deep despairing depression she hid in her room drinking vodka to kill the pain of the horror of my dads veeeeery long and painful death. She got to the point where you would ask her a question and seemed as though she did not hear you as, it took that long for her to even process someone was speaking to her. In human terms, she did NOT deserve that. She died at 59 years.
You have lot's of good questions brother. And, I'm sure all of us have wondered at the same things from time to time. I do not believe in sinless perfection and have yet to meet anybody BUT Christ who was sinless...AND perfect. So, depending on His Mercy as He sees our hearts is what matters in my book. If we are supposed to be sinless then, there will indeed be very few who make it into His presence for eternity.
God Bless,
nancy

The Bible says a lot things in a very different era, under different circumstances and there is a difficulty in understanding that. Part of it is the time period and the theater of cultures. Perspective is a different sort of study, it is easy to get so involved with the details so much that we lose site of the over all picture. You know, cannot see the forest if your nose is pressed up against the bark of the tree.

There is a reason why God loves us...All through Bible...He is interested...He loves us. Ahhh!
There is a reason that He gave His Son to save us.
That was a plan...a plan that was like no other.
A divine plan that overall was designed to be mostly successful. Understand that and then add the details. That is the foundation of our relationship with God. God Almighty loves us...and loved us first even while we were dead in our sins.

 

[Grailhunter]

Other than rising what scripture says, that repentance is necessary for salvation, I would only venture to offer testimony. The reason is thati I believe every single one of us meet with Jesus from different places and through different routes, but all of course we're accepted only because of calvary.
As for me, I responded to a friend's question in 1976..."do you think your lifestyle meets with God's approval?" Several hours later I was laying on my bed and finally admitted to God that no, my life would not meet with His approval and I asked Him to make it something He could approve of. That's it. I knew nothing of repentance...I didn't understand what Christ has done for me through His redemption, I had never read a Bible, and I would have been speechless had anyone asked me what the gospel was. But I was born again that night because when I woke up the next morning everything was different. Everything. So whatever repentance means, I fulfilled it. Other folks experience may differ, but I think somehow, someway, the common denominator will be Christ's acceptance of us all and all because of the blood of the Lamb.

lol You bring up a good point...do you think that the people that were saved in the biblical era, read the New Testament?

 

[Nancy]

Ha.... It is this statement that Nancy has spoken that has made me weary of this thread... Thank you for helping me understand my hesitancy in wanting to respond... Your post was thoughtful and wonderfully expresses the human side of suffering sometimes leading us to sin due to despair or trauma... and that is the point that many Christians seem to miss ( in my opinion ) when looking at how other's are living their lives.

Repentance is indeed walking away and TURNING to God.... I think of Peter walking on the water... and Jesus saying... Peter... keep your eyes on ME. Repentance I believe only comes from LOVE.... from knowing how very much LOVED we are by God. This is where the power to sin LESS becomes possible... as will power can only ever carry us so far before it lets us down. It's all about relationship... When I hurt someone I love... my heart weeps... and I cannot go on until I make amends and make things right... I believe repentance is simply NOT wanting to hurt God.

"I believe repentance is simply NOT wanting to hurt God." <---- Ditto.

 

[Nancy]

Other than rising what scripture says, that repentance is necessary for salvation, I would only venture to offer testimony. The reason is thati I believe every single one of us meet with Jesus from different places and through different routes, but all of course we're accepted only because of calvary.
As for me, I responded to a friend's question in 1976..."do you think your lifestyle meets with God's approval?" Several hours later I was laying on my bed and finally admitted to God that no, my life would not meet with His approval and I asked Him to make it something He could approve of. That's it. I knew nothing of repentance...I didn't understand what Christ has done for me through His redemption, I had never read a Bible, and I would have been speechless had anyone asked me what the gospel was. But I was born again that night because when I woke up the next morning everything was different. Everything. So whatever repentance means, I fulfilled it. Other folks experience may differ, but I think somehow, someway, the common denominator will be Christ's acceptance of us all and all because of the blood of the Lamb.

Love it. We are not clones of each other...we are people with likes and dislikes. We come from very different backgrounds and thought processes, different personalities. There is no "formula" or group of words one must say for God to work within a person. He is not restricted to a list of rules and neither are we. Our HEARTS are what matters in the end. Did we serve Him or did we serve ourselves, and in doing so, served the evil one? The heart, the heart, the heart. AND, only He can see our hearts...others see the outwardness of a person but not near what is happening in their lives or their hearts.

 

[amadeus]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

Turn around

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

When we come to the Lord, we are pretty black inside. When we repent [turn around] that first time, that Light begins to shines within in places and allowing a new man to be born and to grow closer to God. As we grow, are new dark places at time revealed to us that require work? I would say, yes. If they are sins or ways [habits] that when followed would lead us to sin then would we not need to turn around again? [repent anew?] I would say, yes!

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

I believe that it could be, but that is only my belief. Others perhaps have experienced a complete turn around leaving no dark places within in need of further change or elimination or additional repentance. I like the blind man in Mark 9 needed more than one touch from Jesus. My vision has moved away from blindness... but still for some things, I believe, I am seeing as through a glass darkly.

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

When we are drawn by the Father do we have to analyze and understand our situation like a well trained and experienced Psychologist before we step out in faith toward Him? Consider the situation of Lot and his wife leaving Sodom. What did they do?

"And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:" I Peter 2:7
"But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt." Gen 19:26

They both seemingly stepped out in faith, but apparently his wife had faith to follow her husband but no real faith in what God was offering and on the very verge of victory, she remembered something from before and looked back. Repentance first or faith first or asking of God first? God knows!

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

What is a Christian? People use the word all of the time, but without a definition how can anyone even begin to define it. With a proper definition [if there is such a thing understandable to all] then the question may be like the previous one [#4] asking for an analysis an unlearned or unstudied person may not be able to give. Is a proper Bible education necessary prior to beginning to serve God?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

Can the heart of a person be changed while the body continues to walk in many of the ways it has always walked? Why did King David have several wives when in Genesis and the words of Jesus in the gospels and the words of Paul in his epistles it seems clear to many [most?] people that marriage is a two person thing? Several wives, yet called the "apple of His eye" and a "man after God's own heart"?

God did not change, but perhaps King David was growing toward God, but just did not make it that far in his walk before his walk was finished. He had finished his course. For David there was no more time, but certainly he had been elevated during his time! Where will each of us believers be at the end of our course? Will we all be the same? Will we all be perfect? Will we all be overcomers? Who among us will come up short in the eyes of God because we ran out of time before we have overcome it all? How long? How high? Etc.?

Does not all of that help us to understand why Jesus said this?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye" Matt 7:1-3

Who is a qualified judge for each and everyone of us?

 

[Grailhunter]

"I believe repentance is simply NOT wanting to hurt God." <---- Ditto.

Hurting God? True. If you look most sins hurt us or others and that probably makes Him sad.

 

[Addy]

Hurting God? True. If you look most sins hurt us or others and that probably makes Him sad.

I believe God sees us as Righteous... He sees us in the eyes of HIS finished work... so sad??
I agree that sin hurts us and/or others. That is why we have this offering of repentance... to make things right with God.... which to me is a condition of the heart.. and not a guarantee that we will never stray again. An act of contrition of sincerely being sorry... thus freeing us to continue in our walk with full assurance that we are loved and forgiven by God. It also gives us the opportunity to make things right with each other.

Ok.. so with that said... I am still very wary of this thread.... If I'm being paranoid... I apologize.. but if this thread's intention is to discuss sinless perfection... I have NO desire to be part of such a conversation... Nor do I desire to communicate with anyone who holds this belief...Been there... done that. Just being honest.

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe God sees us as Righteous... He sees us in the eyes of HIS finished work... so sad??
I agree that sin hurts us and/or others. That is why we have this offering of repentance... to make things right with God.... which to me is a condition of the heart.. and not a guarantee that we will never stray again. An act of contrition of sincerely being sorry... thus freeing us to continue in our walk with full assurance that we are loved and forgiven by God. It also gives us the opportunity to make things right with each other.

Ok.. so with that said... I am still very wary of this thread.... If I'm being paranoid... I apologize.. but if this thread's intention is to discuss sinless perfection... I have NO desire to be part of such a conversation... Nor do I desire to communicate with anyone who holds this belief...Been there... done that. Just being honest.

I will keep coming back to this...perspective...perspective there is a divine aspect of repentance and a personal mind and heart aspect, and a physical aspect...if you are looking at it, what does it look like?

I can give you scriptures that say we should be perfect as our Father in Heaven and I can give you scriptures that say, you cannot be perfect...and I can give you scriptures that say we are perfected in Christ....

Christ said go and sin no more....is that possible? Would Christ mean something that would not be possible? Can you be sinless? Is it a sin to think you are sinless? Or proclaim that you are sinless? Where does morality fall into this? Is repentance a mere thought or feeling? Is there a physical aspect of repentance? What is a church to do with a habitual sinner that is trying to do better?

 

[DPMartin]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

when coming to the Lord one is to repent from going by their own judgement, and agrees to go by God's. someone who might suffer addictions needs to repent every time they entertain the idea. Jesus is perfect, meaning the fulfillment, and Satan tried to get Jesus to entertain something other than His Father's will. Jesus had no need to repent, but when thoughts that come to mind of that which should not be done one must do as Jesus did, and go to the Word or the agreement one made to not do with the right to honor that agreement. thing is the opposition is slicker then you will ever be, and God knows that, therefore as John says, He is faithful to forgive. there is the concept of the pennant soul, which is to repent at every need. in some Jewish circles its said that a pennant soul brings blessings into the world from Heaven.

how does Solomon say it, a good man falls seven times and gets up seven times. also there is a reason the Lord Jesus told Peter to forgive 7 time 70 times.

 

[Addy]

I will keep coming back to this...perspective...perspective there is a divine aspect of repentance and a personal mind and heart aspect, and physical aspect...if you are looking at it, what does it look like?

I can give you scriptures that way we should be perfect as our Father in Heaven and I can give you scriptures that say, you cannot be perfect...and I can give you scriptures that say we are perfected in Christ....

Christ said go and sin no more....is that possible? Would Christ mean something that would not be possible? Can you be sinless? Is it a sin to think you are sinless? Or proclaim that you are sinless? Where does morality fall into this. Is repentance a mere thought or feeling? Is there a physical aspect of repentance? What is a church to do with a habitual sinner that is trying to do better?

Well.... I think I smell a rat... LOL.... Like I said... I have absolutely NO desire to communicate with ANYONE who believes in sinless perfection... so if you are going to keep coming back to that issue/question... I am not interested in partaking... Bless you.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

In light of Colossians 2:9-15, the utter Heart and Centerpiece of the Entire Bible, Repentance seems to include not just an act, but also the position between a person and God. Most would agree that it is the Lord who GRANTS repentance. In other words, a person is given the ability to Repent . . . that person has been Effected into the ability to Repent. What we do not understand is that True Repentance comes by way of the lifting of the Sinful Nature. Until that Curse has been lifted, no one could ever repent, for anyone who possesses the indwelling Sin Nature can not belong to God, but the Devil. And how does a child of the Devil repent? They don't . . . and they won't.

The removal of the Sin Nature is what causes us to wake up. Who can wake up, from their own choice and power, and be relieved of the effects of an evil Curse that causes one to be blind, deaf, mute, and unable to walk with God? Can anyone alleviate themselves of the Curse of Adam and Eve? Of course not, for if they could, Jesus would not have been required to be tortured and murdered. He is the Sacrifice that pays the debt for our sins. But more . . . only through Him is a person lifted of the Veil that does not allow a person to see, hear, or walk with God. We cannot redeem ourselves. There is no worldly act that we can perform that triggers Salvation. For, Salvation is entirely through the Work, or Spiritual Hands . . . of Christ.

What is His Holy Work? The Work of Christ consists of three Elements:
1. His death pays the debt for our individual sins.
2. He sends the Gift of the Holy Spirit
3. He Spiritually Circumcises our Hearts of the Curse of Adam and Eve, so that we are enabled to see the Truth, as well as Obey His Truth.

In order to Repent, one must be freed of the Curse of Adam and Eve. This is why Jesus came to earth . . . to save us from the Curse that had beset all of humanity while in the Garden of Eden. This is the point of the Bible, for if a person is not lifted of this Curse, their destiny is Hell and there's no way around it but through the Circumcision of Christ.

True Repentance can best be understood by reading Colossians 2:9-15. A Truly Repentant Heart is a Heart that is made "whole and complete in Jesus." This is why Hebrews 6 tells us that should one fall astray, it would be impossible to bring them back into a state, or condition of Holy Repentance . . . because Jesus isn't going to be undoing His Holy Operation of Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart over and over again . . . not even once. What man chooses to have his ugly foreskin reattached to his phallus? None. And it is the same with our Hearts . . . once we have tasted the Heavenly Riches of God, which is Life [without] the Curse of the Devil Effectually running our lives, it is fundamentally impossible to turn back to Satan to enjoy that which is so much less enjoyable, if not utterly painful, than the Holy Presence of God. No sane person would ever choose Holy Terror over the Peace and Love of Christ. Only a lunatic would do such.

How in the world is anyone going to Truly fall astray if they've had the below Operation of God? The KJV makes it seem pretty much impossible. You judge for yourself.

Colossians 2:9-15 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

For those of you who know what it feels like to no longer be under the simple Curse of Adam and Eve . . . please do share. It is an unbelievable thing to experience . . . to no longer have the Mind of the Devil, but the Mind of Christ.

 

[dev553344]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

I'm learning that Jesus is helping me with habitual sins. I'm kinda an old drinker, and I don't drink that often but when I do I like to drink a lot and release all my tensions.

Now Jesus has taught me a few things, and I'm learning why things like habitual sin are evil and losing my desire to sin. I've come out of a couple habitual sins now and feel much better.

I think it's important to not sin, since Jesus and his Angels will be there if you aren't sinning, but I'm not sure they hang around while your sinning. I don't think they can tolerate evil.

But repentance starts with stopping the sin and ends when your desire to sin is gone and Jesus forgives you.

Cheers!

 

[Grailhunter]

Well.... I think I smell a rat... LOL.... Like I said... I have absolutely NO desire to communicate with ANYONE who believes in sinless perfection... so if you are going to keep coming back to that issue/question... I am not interested in partaking... Bless you.

Sinless and perfection is not possible by our own effort.

 

[Addy]

Sinless and perfection is not possible by our own effort.

Like I said... I smell a rat... LOL.... so I respectfully desire not to continue this conversation with you... but I do Bless you.

 

[Grailhunter]

In light of Colossians 2:9-15, the utter Heart and Centerpiece of the Entire Bible, Repentance seems to include not just an act, but also the position between a person and God. Most would agree that it is the Lord who GRANTS repentance. In other words, a person is given the ability to Repent . . . that person has been Effected into the ability to Repent. What we do not understand is that True Repentance comes by way of the lifting of the Sinful Nature. Until that Curse has been lifted, no one could ever repent, for anyone who possesses the indwelling Sin Nature can not belong to God, but the Devil. And how does a child of the Devil repent? They don't . . . and they won't.

The removal of the Sin Nature is what causes us to wake up. Who can wake up, from their own choice and power, and be relieved of the effects of an evil Curse that causes one to be blind, deaf, mute, and unable to walk with God? Can anyone alleviate themselves of the Curse of Adam and Eve? Of course not, for if they could, Jesus would not have been required to be tortured and murdered. He is the Sacrifice that pays the debt for our sins. But more . . . only through Him is a person lifted of the Veil that does not allow a person to see, hear, or walk with God. We cannot redeem ourselves. There is no worldly act that we can perform that triggers Salvation. For, Salvation is entirely through the Work, or Spiritual Hands . . . of Christ.

What is His Holy Work? The Work of Christ consists of three Elements:
1. His death pays the debt for our individual sins.
2. He sends the Gift of the Holy Spirit
3. He Spiritually Circumcises our Hearts of the Curse of Adam and Eve, so that we are enabled to see the Truth, as well as Obey His Truth.

In order to Repent, one must be freed of the Curse of Adam and Eve. This is why Jesus came to earth . . . to save us from the Curse that had beset all of humanity while in the Garden of Eden. This is the point of the Bible, for if a person is not lifted of this Curse, their destiny is Hell and there's no way around it but through the Circumcision of Christ.

True Repentance can best be understood by reading Colossians 2:9-15. A Truly Repentant Heart is a Heart that is made "whole and complete in Jesus." This is why Hebrews 6 tells us that should one fall astray, it would be impossible to bring them back into a state, or condition of Holy Repentance . . . because Jesus isn't going to be undoing His Holy Operation of Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart over and over again . . . not even once. What man chooses to have his ugly foreskin reattached to his phallus? None. And it is the same with our Hearts . . . once we have tasted the Heavenly Riches of God, which is Life [without] the Curse of the Devil Effectually running our lives, it is fundamentally impossible to turn back to Satan to enjoy that which is so much less enjoyable, if not utterly painful, than the Holy Presence of God. No sane person would ever choose Holy Terror over the Peace and Love of Christ. Only a lunatic would do such.

How in the world is anyone going to Truly fall astray if they've had the below Operation of God? The KJV makes it seem pretty much impossible. You judge for yourself.

Colossians 2:9-15 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

For those of you who know what it feels like to no longer be under the simple Curse of Adam and Eve . . . please do share. It is an unbelievable thing to experience . . . to no longer have the Mind of the Devil, but the Mind of Christ.

Am I getting this right, are you saying it is impossible to repent?

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

Some good questions. Repentance is not always something we fully understand when we become a committed Christian. All we may know is that Christ is the way of life and we have not been living that. That in itself is repentance--the turning from walking life our own way and turning to a life dependent upon the Lord for our light.

We are cleansed when we look to the Lord for our way. Bad habits hurt us but do not destroy our faith that God is our way, assuming we continue to walk in that way. Yes, we can walk in the light even with the distractions of sin. The Holy Spirit will convict us of our sins and habits, but as long as we continue to follow Christ as the way, we remain in salvation. Sins simply set us back, hinder our walk with God, and do harm to our witness.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Am I getting this right, are you saying it is impossible to repent?

I'm saying that is impossible to repent without the Circumcision of Christ. A spiritual Circumcision is a one-time act, and through that one-time act, Repentance is granted. Think of those in the New Testament who were healed of sickness, leprosy, blindness, etc . . . they all had Faith before they were healed. It was because of their Faith that allowed their bodies to be healed. In other words, the physical healings are a part of the hidden message, to us, that physical healings are reflective of Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart. So . . . the point is, is that those who were physically healed repented and began to "sin no more." All who were Enabled to understand Christ, were Spiritually Circumcised, which is the simple lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve. No big deal. That act MUST occur for any kind of awakening to occur . . . especially if it is to lead to Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm learning that Jesus is helping me with habitual sins. I'm kinda an old drinker, and I don't drink that often but when I do I like to drink a lot and release all my tensions.

Now Jesus has taught me a few things, and I'm learning why things like habitual sin are evil and losing my desire to sin. I've come out of a couple habitual sins now and feel much better.

I think it's important to not sin, since Jesus and his Angels will be there if you aren't sinning, but I'm not sure they hang around while your sinning. I don't think they can tolerate evil.

But repentance starts with stopping the sin and ends when your desire to sin is gone and Jesus forgives you.

Cheers!

Honesty is a wonderful thing. How do you know that you can categorize your drinking, that you do now, as a sin.
The physical side...the warning signs are generally...affects your health...affect your job...staggering drunk...you find yourself talking to police officers in an official capacity...dance on a table with a lamp shade on your head? People that have had problems with alcoholism should not drink at all, but there is a difference between stupid and sinning.

 

[dev553344]

Honesty is a wonderful thing. How do you know that you can categorize your drinking, that you do now, as a sin.
The physical side...the warning signs are generally...affects your health...affect your job...staggering drunk...you find yourself talking to police officers in an official capacity...dance on a table with a lamp shade on your head? People that have had problems with alcoholism should not drink at all, but there is a difference between stupid and sinning.

Well I think I consider that drinking is a waste of time. I like a clean house, unless you have reason to drink, like chronic pain. I've had chronic pain before and had to be on pain meds for a couple years. And pain meds were a nightmare. The withdrawals were terrible. I finally came off the pain meds and tried alcohol for my pain problems as my pain began to become less and less over the course of a few years. It was much better and worked well as a pain medicine. No withdrawals and was much more pleasant. But now I don't have pain anymore and don't really need to drink for any reason.

I tried to give into the idea that drinking was OK if you just did a little and not too often. But I don't see it in harmony with Christianity unless you have some chronic pain problem, then it is the least of the evils. Why drink? To get high? I don't see God being OK with that. To leave the reality that God created in your mind and heart for a high. Drinking causes the loss of good judgment (at least that is what was taught me).

But I know some Christians drink, and I don't have a problem with that, as long as it doesn't lead to sinning.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm saying that is impossible to repent without the Circumcision of Christ. A spiritual Circumcision is a one-time act, and through that one-time act, Repentance is granted. Think of those in the New Testament who were healed of sickness, leprosy, blindness, etc . . . they all had Faith before they were healed. It was because of their Faith that allowed their bodies to be healed. In other words, the physical healings are a part of the hidden message, to us, that physical healings are reflective of Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart. So . . . the point is, is that those who were physically healed repented and began to "sin no more." All who were Enabled to understand Christ, were Spiritually Circumcised, which is the simple lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve. No big deal. That act MUST occur for any kind of awakening to occur . . . especially if it is to lead to Christ.

Repentance as something that is granted? Think about that...
There are those that think that repentance is a one time event, but that has its own line of Theology that goes along with it.
There are instances in the Gospels where Christ forgave sins or healed without any written indication (in the storyline) of expressed repentance. Was it something they did or thought? But Christ never said you are healed because I grant you repentance. To straighten this out you have to keep it all in perspective. Put yourself right there in the Gospels with Christ, or Peter or Paul. No New Testament to read and you may not be able to read.... Compared to what we know today, what would you know back then, after hearing Paul preach on the road and you decided you wanted that relationship with God? What would you have to know on that road to be saved? What was repentance in your mind and heart? How would that affect your life?