ON THE FENCE ABOUT REPENTANCE?

[Addy]

Well I think I consider that drinking is a waste of time. I like a clean house, unless you have reason to drink, like chronic pain. I've had chronic pain before and had to be on pain meds for a couple years. And pain meds were a nightmare. The withdrawals were terrible. I finally came off the pain meds and tried alcohol for my pain problems as my pain began to become less and less over the course of a few years. It was much better and worked well as a pain medicine. No withdrawals and was much more pleasant. But now I don't have pain anymore and don't really need to drink for any reason.

I tried to give into the idea that drinking was OK if you just did a little and not too often. But I don't see it in harmony with Christianity unless you have some chronic pain problem, then it is the least of the evils. Why drink? To get high? I don't see God being OK with that. To leave the reality that God created in your mind and heart for a high. Drinking causes the loss of good judgment (at least that is what was taught me).

But I know some Christians drink, and I don't have a problem with that, as long as it doesn't lead to sinning.

I have walked in a similar path... however my pain was emotional and I turned to alcohol to self-medicate as medication was NOT working for me.. I have suffered with Chronic Depression and Dysthymia for 40 years... I am what is known as medication resistant ( meaning medication does not work for me )... Like you... as my pain became less... I no longer felt the need to drink... and I do not drink at this time... I think I have grown some in my understanding of suffering and how much God truly loves me that I believe I will in future simply take the suffering as it comes...
It is difficult being ill for months on end with no reprieve... and that is what depression is like... Sometimes it's just a mercy to escape some...

From what you have described... you have chosen as you say the lesser of two evils for the purpose of coping. I understand this.
Bless you.... It was refreshing to hear an honest heart speak.

 

[Truther]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

Repentance(new lifestyle for believers) is a prerequisite to being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE remission of our sins.

We cannot skip water baptism and ask the Lord to remit them now.

Once the requirement was established in Acts 2, it was set in stone.

 

[Addy]

Repentance is a prerequisite to being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE remission of our sins.

We cannot skip water baptism and ask the Lord to remit them now.

Once the requirement was established in Acts 2, it was set in stone.

And TRUTHER has arrived... LOL

 

[Grailhunter]

Well I think I consider that drinking is a waste of time. I like a clean house, unless you have reason to drink, like chronic pain. I've had chronic pain before and had to be on pain meds for a couple years. And pain meds were a nightmare. The withdrawals were terrible. I finally came off the pain meds and tried alcohol for my pain problems as my pain began to become less and less over the course of a few years. It was much better and worked well as a pain medicine. No withdrawals and was much more pleasant. But now I don't have pain anymore and don't really need to drink for any reason.

I tried to give into the idea that drinking was OK if you just did a little and not too often. But I don't see it in harmony with Christianity unless you have some chronic pain problem, then it is the least of the evils. Why drink? To get high? I don't see God being OK with that. To leave the reality that God created in your mind and heart for a high. Drinking causes the loss of good judgment (at least that is what was taught me).

But I know some Christians drink, and I don't have a problem with that, as long as it doesn't lead to sinning.

The last thing I am going to do is talk you into drinking. I am not going to talk you into mountain climbing either. But you know a football team could not win if they did not know the rules. Got to know the rules and that can be a hard thing for Christians now a days. People have been adding rules to Christianity for a long time...to the point that the Christian life can be like a minefield full of real sins and fake sins. Trying to walk through that field you could easily step on a real mine, trying to avoid a fake mine. As the Bible says, do not let anyone judge you on what you eat or drink, but you do not want to get into the sin and stupidity of drunkenness and gluttony.

 

[Grailhunter]

How many people on this forum and around the world have real issues that devastate their lives? Who would want to walk in their shoes? Does that sort of thing relate to the topic of sin and repentance? It is a good question.

 

[Addy]

How many people on this forum and around the world have real issues that devastate their lives? How would want to walk in their shoes. Does that sort of thing relate to the topic of sin and repentance? It is a good question.

I'm still trying to figure you out... LOL

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Repentance as something that is granted? Think about that...
There are those that think that repentance is a one time event, but that has its own line of Theology that goes along with it.
There are instances in the Gospels where Christ forgave sins or healed without any written indication (in the storyline) of expressed repentance. Was it something they did or thought? But Christ never said you are healed because I grant you repentance. To straighten this out you have to keep it all in perspective. Put yourself right there in the Gospels with Christ, or Peter or Paul. No New Testament to read and you may not be able to read.... Compared to what we know today, what would know back then, after hearing Paul preach on the road and you decided you wanted that relationship with God? What would you have to know on that road to be saved. What was repentance in your mind and heart? How would that affect your life?

Okie Doke.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm still trying to figure you out... LOL

The topic itself is simple.
I am not throwing mental disabilities and or chronic pain into the mix.
People can be so bad off that they are on prescribed medications that wack them out. And there are people that cannot afford the expensive medications, so they self medicate. The tragedy starts with the conditions, now does that ever cross over to a sin? As a whole I am going to say no.

On the other side of the coin, some people use things as a crutch. Some people justify things...justification can be the path to hell. But some people are truly bad off. How do you judge that? Where does a merciful God come in? Does He heal you? Does He damn you for looking for relief? So for the most part, as far as I am concerned it does not relate to this topic..I do not want to take a walk in your moccasins.

 

[Grailhunter]

Okie Doke.

No...have some courage. Talk about this.

 

[Addy]

How many people on this forum and around the world have real issues that devastate their lives? Who would want to walk in their shoes? Does that sort of thing relate to the topic of sin and repentance? It is a good question.

I'm going to bite... and respond to this in an honest and transparent way...
I think you are asking this? Does trauma/abuse/suffering/devastation affect how someone responds to or initiates into sin in their lives.. and does it numb or remove the need to repent? ( making one just act out and not care )... I probably made this more complicated than it needed to be... but I am going to answer on the premise that this is what you are asking.

I will speak openly and honestly about myself... which is something I don't usually do.. but I am feeling festive today.

I am 57 years old... and have been a Christian for approximately 19 years... If I was to receive a REPORT CARD from some Christians...
I would surely get a failing grade because I have been a slow learner. The problem is that I was given very bad counsel in those beginning years and I was made to think that God was angry and out to get me... I was also told that depression ( which I have suffered with for 40 years ) was a demon... so... I gave up before I even began... because I hated myself... and saw no use in trying when I had no hope of succeeding.

If someone had told me in the beginning WHO I WAS in CHRIST... and that GOD LOVED me... WAS FOR ME... and NOT against me... I believe I would be much farther along than I am now... Thankfully in the mean time... God has done miraculous work... healing the very deep and inner parts of my broken heart... the parts that no one can see...

I believe HE understands that I have had a very difficult life... He understands that I was abandoned as a child by my father.. and that he later hung himself... He understands that my mother was very mentally ill and an alcoholic... with many suicide attempts... and that she did not have the ability to nourish me as a child.. therefore I grew up raising myself and TRUSTING NO ONE.... He understands that I have had a difficult time even trusting Him. Over these twenty very LONG and painful years... I have been convinced that HE understands and LOVES me... He continues to be ever so tender and gentle with me... and I am grateful for that... He knows I am fragile... therefore He will NOT crush me.

Does trauma affect sinning and repenting? YES it does... and I believe God understands this only too well... Trauma affects how one sees themselves... and how they see God... If someone is not there at the very beginning of someone's salvation... to point them in the right direction... ( showing them who they are in Christ... and what forgiveness of their sins means )... they are just as lost when they get saved as they were when they were not... making things much more difficult to figure out.

Sadly... there are so many poisonous doctrines out there that becoming a Christian can be a very harsh and overwhelming experience... and that is sad to me.

Repenting for me is something that I need to do so that I can be right with God... I don't think about sinning... I just know in my heart when I have done something wrong... I need to fix it so that I can be at PEACE. I am grateful that His mercies are new every morning... I depend on that promise to get me through my day.

WOW.... What a confession this has been. My two cents worth for a Saturday... If I went off topic... I am sorry.

 

[dev553344]

And TRUTHER has arrived... LOL

Yeah it's actually confession of sin that goes along with baptism. At least that's what the bible says.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

No...have some courage. Talk about this.

Nah. It's not a big deal to me. What you wrote didn't make much sense according to what I wrote. I'm old. I don't have the mental energy to go round and round like the younger folks.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

Hi Grailhunter:

Let me answer your questions.

1. Repentance is from the Greek metanoia which simply means a change of mind!

2. No you cannot repent of sins you do not know of. Yes you repent (change your mind) when you become a Christian. No we do not need to repent again once we become a Christian. After we are born again, when we sin we do 1 John 1:9 and acknowledge our sin before God.

3. Yes repentance only happens once- when we change our mind and we receive Christ.

4. Repentance occurs at the time of regeneration. I do not know if their is a technical order that must be followed. God knows the heart and will accept repentance either before or after I am sure.

5. We need to acknowledge our sin before God. We have already been forgiven. By acknowledging that what we did was sin- we restore our fellowship. Our relationship is secure.

6. Yes they can. No one once they are saved are perfect from the start. we have to learn to shed the old and adopt the new man who is being conformed in the image of Jesus. All of us have besetting sins we struggle with. God knows the heart and knows if one is struggling in an area or is just trying to "buy God off" with nice sounding words. Jesus said a bruised reed He will not break nor a smoldering wick will He quench. What that means is that He does not crush us because we are imperfect and struggling to overcome. As long as we keep acknowledging (even 70X7 a day) our sin Gods promise is to keep forgiving and cleansing.

Hope this helps.

 

[Addy]

1. Repentance is from the Greek metanoia which simply means a change of mind!

2. No you cannot repent of sins you do not know of. Yes you repent (change your mind) when you become a Christian. No we do not need to repent again once we become a Christian. After we are born again, when we sin we do 1 John 1:9 and acknowledge our sin before God.

3. Yes repentance only happens once- when we change our mind and we receive Christ.

4. Repentance occurs at the time of regeneration. I do not know if their is a technical order that must be followed. God knows the heart and will accept repentance either before or after I am sure.

5. We need to acknowledge our sin before God. We have already been forgiven. By acknowledging that what we did was sin- we restore our fellowship. Our relationship is secure.

6. Yes they can. No one once they are saved are perfect from the start. we have to learn to shed the old and adopt the new man who is being conformed in the image of Jesus. All of us have besetting sins we struggle with. God knows the heart and knows if one is struggling in an area or is just trying to "buy God off" with nice sounding words. Jesus said a bruised reed He will not break nor a smoldering wick will He quench. What that means is that He does not crush us because we are imperfect and struggling to overcome. As long as we keep acknowledging (even 70X7 a day) our sin Gods promise is to keep forgiving and cleansing.

Hope this helps.

I guess I am using the word repentance wrong.... When I say repentance... I mean confessing my sin to God... but you are stating that repentance only happens ONCE at the time of conversion.. I have never heard this before. Something to think about.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I guess I am using the word repentance wrong.... When I say repentance... I mean confessing my sin to God... but you are stating that repentance only happens ONCE at the time of conversion.. I have never heard this before. Something to think about.

Most christians confuse confession with repentance. Repentance can occur without any sorrow in ones heart! It is simply agreeing with God that when we sinned we sinned!

Repentance in the true biblical sense is agreeing that we cannot save ourselves and Jesus' death and resurrection is the only means of being saved.

 

[Addy]

Most christians confuse confession with repentance. Repentance can occur without any sorrow in ones heart! It is simply agreeing with God that when we sinned we sinned!

Repentance in the true biblical sense is agreeing that we cannot save ourselves and Jesus' death and resurrection is the only means of being saved.

You win teacher of the month award. I have learned much from you these last few days.... THANK YOU.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You win teacher of the month award. I have learned much from you these last few days.... THANK YOU.

Well I had the best TEACHER!

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi Grailhunter:

Let me answer your questions.

1. Repentance is from the Greek metanoia which simply means a change of mind!

2. No you cannot repent of sins you do not know of. Yes you repent (change your mind) when you become a Christian. No we do not need to repent again once we become a Christian. After we are born again, when we sin we do 1 John 1:9 and acknowledge our sin before God.

3. Yes repentance only happens once- when we change our mind and we receive Christ.

4. Repentance occurs at the time of regeneration. I do not know if their is a technical order that must be followed. God knows the heart and will accept repentance either before or after I am sure.

5. We need to acknowledge our sin before God. We have already been forgiven. By acknowledging that what we did was sin- we restore our fellowship. Our relationship is secure.

6. Yes they can. No one once they are saved are perfect from the start. we have to learn to shed the old and adopt the new man who is being conformed in the image of Jesus. All of us have besetting sins we struggle with. God knows the heart and knows if one is struggling in an area or is just trying to "buy God off" with nice sounding words. Jesus said a bruised reed He will not break nor a smoldering wick will He quench. What that means is that He does not crush us because we are imperfect and struggling to overcome. As long as we keep acknowledging (even 70X7 a day) our sin Gods promise is to keep forgiving and cleansing.

Hope this helps.

Let me answer your questions.
Thank you very much for answering…

1. Repentance is from the Greek metanoia which simply means a change of mind!

Yes from the Greek word Metanoia in a roundabout way. When the Apostles were working at getting the New Testament written it was being done in a Pagan language, namely Greek. As they did that they were working on finding Greek words that had similar meaning to Hebrew words. The root meaning but not necessarily the context. For example the Greek word for sin to the Christians had a religious connection. It had no religious connection to the Greeks…it was mostly was an archery term of missing the target. Their religions did not have a great concern regarding morals, neither did their gods. The Hebrew word meant both.

Likewise repent and repentance was not a religious term for the Greeks. It was associated with acknowledging they had done someone wrong and thereby were entitled to make it right. The Christians took both meaning and applied it to Christianity. They defined it as changing one’s mind…like the Hebrew if it said God repented…it meant that He changed His mind. But also repentance meant a physical change of actions. So if you believe in Christ but nothing about you or your actions change, then that is not repentance. Only that you thought about it...Then you get into the topic of what does faith mean in that time period.

2. No you cannot repent of sins you do not know of. Yes you repent (change your mind) when you become a Christian. No we do not need to repent again once we become a Christian. After we are born again, when we sin we do 1 John 1:9 and acknowledge our sin before God.

So are you saying we do not have to ask Christ for forgiveness? Are you saying that you can get forgiveness without repenting or changing your actions?

3. Yes repentance only happens once- when we change our mind and we receive Christ.
I recognize this as a theological belief.

4. Repentance occurs at the time of regeneration. I do not know if their is a technical order that must be followed. God knows the heart and will accept repentance either before or after I am sure.

5. We need to acknowledge our sin before God. We have already been forgiven. By acknowledging that what we did was sin- we restore our fellowship. Our relationship is secure.

Forgiven as a blanket forgiveness for all future sins?

6. Yes they can. No one once they are saved are perfect from the start. we have to learn to shed the old and adopt the new man who is being conformed in the image of Jesus. All of us have besetting sins we struggle with. God knows the heart and knows if one is struggling in an area or is just trying to "buy God off" with nice sounding words. Jesus said a bruised reed He will not break nor a smoldering wick will He quench. What that means is that He does not crush us because we are imperfect and struggling to overcome. As long as we keep acknowledging (even 70X7 a day) our sin Gods promise is to keep forgiving and cleansing.

Agreed. But the physical side…put it in motion. In a Church we can accept a person that is struggling with addictions, but do we want to put him in charge of Sunday school with children or be a youth minister. How would you handle that?

 

[Paul Christensen]

I guess I am using the word repentance wrong.... When I say repentance... I mean confessing my sin to God... but you are stating that repentance only happens ONCE at the time of conversion.. I have never heard this before. Something to think about.

It all depends on whether one is a Calvinist or an Arminian.
A Calvinist's definition of repentance is that it is a one time act involving a total change of direction from rebelling against Christ to embracing Him. God endows the person with saving faith to enable him to embrace Christ, and then the person presses into God for the Holy Spirit to do the work of conversions to Christ. It is this pressing in to God that involves repentance that results in conversion to Christ.

An Arminian's definition of repentance is the personal decision to "accept" Christ as Saviour, through his own personal choice, and this acceptance brings automatic conversion to Christ. From then on the person has to make continual choices to forsake the works of the flesh, and every time he chooses to yield to temptation, he has to repent all over again in order to get right with God. This means that he chooses to remain saved by forsaking the works of the flesh, and he does this by choice, although he does ask for the help of the Holy Spirit in order to have the strength to make the choices he needs to make. But remaining saved is his own responsibility, and he can choose to walk away from Christ if he becomes discouraged and despairs that he cannot maintain his Christian walk.

For the Calvinist, baptism with the Spirit happens at conversion. In fact, conversion for him is being baptised with the Spirit. For the Arminian, conversion by personal choice comes first, then the baptism with the Spirit comes as a subsequent work of grace.

The Calvinist has a stronger assurance of salvation, because he accepts that it is God's grace that has saved him, and grace will keep the Holy Spirit working in him to enable him to maintain his Christian walk. The Arminian can sometimes swing from assurance to non-assurance based on his performance as a believer. Grace-based Christians mainly tend toward Calvinism, while performance-based Christians tend toward Arminianism.

 

[Truman]

Since I can only truly repent with God's empowering Spirit, my salvation...from start to end, depends on Him. To Him be all the glory. Jesus said that one can only come to Him (Jesus) when the Father draws one to Him (Jesus).
If I can't see something, He'll show me...even if He, who invented the eyeball, has to make a new one for me.
Merry Christmas!