On the very near Rapture Day Jesus will Return and Catch up those Looking for Him!

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Copperhead

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A comment on whether Trump is in league with demonic, illuminati, or whatever, it really doesn't matter. if the Lord did not allow him to be in the job, he wouldn't be. It may or may not be part of some conspiracy, but I lose little sleep worrying about such things. Just like who is going to be the antichrist. I really could care less. He won't be revealed while I am here so he will not be ruling anything while I am here. It is so much easier to keep things simple.
 
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Soverign Grace

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And again and again and again?


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Soverign Grace

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A comment on whether Trump is in league with demonic, illuminati, or whatever, it really doesn't matter. if the Lord did not allow him to be in the job, he wouldn't be. It may or may not be part of some conspiracy, but I lose little sleep worrying about such things. Just like who is going to be the antichrist. I really could care less. He won't be revealed while I am here so he will not be ruling anything while I am here. It is so much easier to keep things simple.

That's a good point: God did allow him to assume office. I just don't believe that God wants us to be ignorant.

Matthew 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Philippians 3:18-19 - (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Paul gives that very warning when he counsels the Corinthians to take care "lest Satan take advantage of us, for we are not ignorant of his devices."

Matthew 24:24: At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect,if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance.…

I'm concerned that so many evangelicals have embraced Trump and they aren't using discernment nor being alert to the devices of the evil one. Christ would not have put those warnings in Scripture unless He meant exactly what He said.
 

Soverign Grace

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When you really begin to look into it, you conclude that no one keeps forming a triangle with their hands over and over and over without having some meaning behind it. I could post a lot more but won't. If you look into it yourself, you'll see all the world leaders - all those involved in the Bilderbergers all flash the same signs.


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Soverign Grace

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Really - what are the chances that Merkel, Trump, Reagan, Obama, both Clintons, and the Pope - ALL MEMBERS OF THE ELITE - flash the triple six? It's not a natural hand sign. I observe people and NEVER see anyone flash this sign. If you look online you'll see all of the above named people flashing the triple six. Trump flashes it as well as the triangle.

"...do not be ignorant of Satan's devices..."


iu
 

Soverign Grace

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If Christians knew about it - Satanists will often "flash" a hand sign to others to show that they're Satanists. That's what all these world leaders are doing. From what I understand, Kennedy was the one who stood up to them and they had him assassinated.

We're not to delve into it, because we're told to be wise concerning good and ignorant concerning evil. But we're also warned to be watchful, and I'm concerned that many Christians are swallowing the lies being served up by Trump and they're going to have a rude awakening when he stops lying and really shows his hand and who he's really in league with.

And lest you think Christians are dealing with a funny fellow in a red suit with a pitchfork, I'd like to remind you of just how evil these people are. I happened to read a story last night and it's one of those you read and can't un-read but wish you could. Hollywood really is evil. And they all flash these same signs. I urge those with a strong stomach to read the following:

Justin Bieber: Hollywood Elites Killed My Unborn Child
 

Soverign Grace

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Disney is in league with the evil one. These are highly intelligent people who have the devious personality of their master. They are cunning and weave their evil into everything into society to pervert, corrupt, and destroy.


 

Soverign Grace

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What are the real chances of the Pope and Trump and Merkel, and Hitler, and May, and Hollywood ALL FLASHING THE SAME SIGN?

iu
 

Soverign Grace

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Hi SG,
If you had "discernment", you'd realize that the most verbose personal curse in all of Scripture is for Obama.

Maybe the tint in your glasses has affected your "discernment".
Bobby Jo

No Bobby Jo, it hasn't. I know what Obama was, but if you look up the Hegelian Dialectic you'll see how it's just the swinging of the pendulum from ultra-liberal to ultra-conservative: it's a ploy that has been played on the American people, and by all accounts has worked and is working.

"The wise makes his way sure..." I did not come to this lightly. I researched carefully and prayed earnestly and this is what I see: the Hegelian Dialectic being played; Trump is in league with the Elite. The illuminati. Obama is in the same club as Trump. I wanted Trump to be everything he claimed: a Nationalist who was going to MAGA! I even almost bought the hat. But then I noticed that he kept lying, and saying one thing and doing another. How many times does Lucy have to pull the football away from Charlie Brown until he realizes he's being played? Christ warned us that if it was possible even the elect would be deceived.

These are just my personal beliefs after researching it thoroughly. I would never want to mislead anyone and I urge everyone to look for the truth with their own eyes. I know that it's possible that I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Christ tells us in Scripture about "...having senses trained by reason of use..." I urge everyone to pray for discernment because the evil one is a master of illusion. I dealt with very very manipulative people one time. They don't think normally; they think strategically. They try to get you to think one thing while they're doing another. Their tricks are many and varied. They're cunning like the evil one and they fool a lot of people. When you see through them then they attempt to discredit you because they don't want to be shown for what they are. They pour on the charm and fool a lot of people and when you don't fall in line they try to make it look like you are the problem. Sooner or later though they'll show their hand about who they really are - but not before harming a lot of people. One woman was the most manipulative person I'd ever met. Her brother had schizophrenia - which I believe has some association with evil - but it's just speculation.

It's interesting though that I read the news yesterday and read that the Parkland shooter claimed to hear demonic voices in his head. The police dismissed him as a nut, but I think he really was hearing voices. A family member moved into a house that was demonized. The TV would turn on and off by itself, they saw shadows moving in the house, and one of their friends was laying on the couch and was choked - no one around. They left a recorder in the bedroom and left. They played the recording for me and the horrific sounds on the tape were shocking.

I've dealt with evil a few times - I don't know why God allowed it, but it gave me a healthy enough concern for it that I don't want to be fooled by it. In my best judgment Trump is not who he says he is.
 

Bobby Jo

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... I see so many "Christians" violate the law of love ...
It's more than that, -- social christians violate the law of TRUTH, and allow every doctrine to be treated as though it were TRUE.

Take your "satanic hand symbol", -- or how about the "face" on the planet Mars, -- or the NH "man in the mountain", -- or our local "monkey in the mountain" which is common to communities with rock outcroppings, -- or more obviously, how about all the shapes in the clouds.

Certainly some of those cloud shapes are "satanic", -- if you have a little (read "lot") of imagination.

See how easy your "discernment" is? It just takes some imagination ...



Now if you REALLY want to get to the heart of what's going on in society, take a look at the "thin blue line" and the "blue flag" gang symbols in our law enforcement agencies. I don't discount satanic activity, and it is getting worse, -- each and every day --, and it ain't done. It's on an exponential curve.

Bobby Jo
 
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CoreIssue

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Trump is not a single caravan in.

The obstructionists liberals are responsible for those who did get in.

The wall is getting built. The Pentagon just kicked in another $13 billion.

That is not the goal of agenda 21. Agenda 21 is worldwide by the UN.

What pastors? Name them.

The only ones I'm aware of that speak are not biblical.

I followed the issue very closely because I was directly affected. My husband took me to the ER and I couldn't be seen, even though in terrible shape because it was packed with immigrants using it for free medical care. Then the hospital was going to let me die if my husband didn't pay the hefty co-pay for a desperately needed surgery, yet scores of immigrants with TB were in that same hospital being treated for free for 3 months in negative pressure rooms - nothing ever expected of them. Then my brother-in-laws friends son was killed by a drunk immigrant: they don't have the strict drunk driving laws that we do in America - there is no MADD. (Please contact your legislators and demand that any immigrants be taught our stiff drunk driving penalties).

More conspiracy sites with on collaborated accusations.

I am very aware abuses by illegals.

As a former mayor and council member I was confronted with it. And that was before Trump even ran for office.


I don't have anything against them - my grandparents immigrated to America from Ireland, but I think they should do it legally. They should not be allowed to use the ER for non-emergencies.

Wait until it comes to your area. See if you'll be so forgiving of President Trump then. That was when I knew America had become dangerous. He's no nationalist. He's following the dictates of his Jesuit masters to form the North American Union: America, Canada, and Mexico are going to be one. In fact I read that it was somehow made easier to travel between the three countries: for the North American union.

Trump Signs Amnesty Budget Bill For Millions Of Illegals
Encourages Millions More To Flood Into The US And Is
Caught Bald-Faced Lying About Caravans That He Let In


By Willian Gheen ALIPAC

Trump Signs Amnesty Budget Bill For Millions Of Illegals Encourages Millions More To Flood Into The US And Is Caught Bald-Faced Lying About Caravans That He Let In

Body Language Experts Say Trump Often Flashes “Triangle of Satan” Hand Gesture
The ominous “downward prayer position” is proof that the president uses dark magic and is in league with the devil


1*FCAsiu79H2b2aUGLdD7mBw.jpeg

Hell hath no fury like these two guys together in one room. (Credit: BuzzFeed)
Acareful analysis of more than 100 photographs of President Donald Trump sitting with various world leaders, celebrities, and journalists conclusively shows that the American leader often and indiscriminately uses the “Triangle of Satan” hand gesture.


1*ETzHSeKf5NJZX_dSB43L9g.jpeg

Mr. Trump’s first chance to flash Lucifer’s hand language from a position of power was in the Oval Office, November 2016. (Credit: UPI/Barcroft Images/Daily Mail)
Four highly-regarded "); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px); background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;">body language experts, including Dr. Lola Somatis of Duke University and Dr. Frank Caldaver of UCLA, examined the photographs of President Trump taken over a three-year period from June 2014 to May 2017.


1*LJfMqGPBVw2PCM28YYQy_A.jpeg

Watch closely. He puts his fingertips together with thumbs touching, forming a perfect triangle. It’s startlingly blatant and so chilling. (Credit: DDP USA/REX/Shutterstock)
The results of their analysis has many political observers, as well as Christian religious scholars, worried and paying closer attention.

“We observed Mr. Trump using the ‘Reverse Steeple’ or ‘Downward Prayer Position’ hand symbol in virtually every photo we analyzed,” said Dr. Somatis. “There is simply no other conclusion we can make other than that he is indicating his allegiance to Satan and signaling a vast global network of fellow devil worshipers, telling them that he is in position and ready to rain hellfire down on earth.”

The Reverse Steeple and Downward Prayer Position are familiar to religious scholars because they take classic Christian symbols — a church steeple and the traditional upward position of the hands during worshipful prayer — and flips them over, placing them in the reverse direction. Downward.


1*xaLMaQCA4oHTBBGG4tXm6Q.jpeg

Clearly sending Satan worshipers the signal while sitting with Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain. (Credit: VOANews.com)
Still others point out that the downward position of the pointed hands forms an arrow, indicating the direction that the fallen angel, the rebellious Lucifer, took during his descent into hell.

Dr. Caldaver agreed with Dr. Somatis’ general assessment, but added, “Some naive observers have said that President Trump, a well-known philanderer and pussy grabber, is merely making the ‘V’ sign, also known as the ‘vagina symbol.’ This is wishful thinking. The truth is much darker and more alarming.”


1*0mWfnDQorqCsUHe5Z-w3Ww.jpeg

Some think the president is using the controversial, but relatively harmless “vagina symbol,” but the conclusion of body language experts is much more frightening. (Credit: NBC NewsWire/2013 NBCUniversal Media, LLC.)
Dr. Caldaver also mentioned the popular theory that President Trump is using one of the important signs of the Illuminati — a pyramid.


1*AqvMU0oaVzL8UR-llP2k9g.jpeg

Careful, he can flash the sign with a smile on his face, as he did in Egypt. (Credit: NBC News)
"); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px); background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;">The Illuminati is a name given to a secret society, believed to be a confederation of powerful politicians and business leaders, as well as other globally influential people, who essentially control the world order.

But Dr. Caldaver does not agree that Mr. Trump is using an Illuminati gesture.

“I don’t buy it. The pyramid symbol is based on the idea that at the bottom are the masses and the capstone represents an elite ruling class, the top 1%. Yes, the president is forming a triangle or pyramid with his hands, but it is upside down, therefore not a pyramid at all. He is clearly positioning his hands to represent the ‘Triangle of Satan.’”


1*itokY5e-ab8ulIbzq7VeZA.jpeg

The president secretly directs his demon followers to put a hex on all the G20 world leaders last week in Hamburg. (Credit: Mirror.com.uk)
What Drs. Somatis and Caldaver also agree upon, along with other body language experts, is that President Trump has opened the door of the White House to an element that might not have the best interests of the country or the world at heart.

Dr. Somatis had the last word. “We don’t want to raise any unnecessary alarms but, as they often say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And, in this case, we have 100 photos telling us exactly the same thing — that when the President of the United States flashes the ‘Triangle of Satan’ hand signal in every photo opportunity, it should not be ignored.”



Body Language Experts Say Trump Often Flashes “Triangle of Satan” Hand Gesture[/QUOTE]
 

CoreIssue

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I will add I Have been studying the occult Over almost 60 years..

And a lot of those so-called satonic hand gestures you claim body language experts say normal human gestures.

Unlike the foreign hand gesture, extended tongue and some other gestures that are not natural to the body.
 
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CoreIssue

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There are some instances indeed where things are set straight forward in the NT text. But when we are dealing with eschatology like this thread, a standard has to be applied.

The Torah requirement is for any matter to be established, it has to have the confirmation of two or more witnesses. The Bereans in Acts 17 affirmed the example and set the standard for us... they searched the scriptures (OT which is all they had) to see if what Paul taught them (teachings with make the NT) was true. And they were commended by the HS for doing so. And I have found that methodology to be a very strong mitigator against wild eyed allegorical nonsense playing fast and loose with scripture interpretation.

I give people a chance, but if they cannot equally support a doctrinal position in the OT that they are pointing to in the NT, then it really doesn't have much standing to me. Solomon said that there is nothing new under the sun. Paul told Timothy that all scripture was profitable for doctrine. The Torah (OT) and the Bereans (NT) are the two witnesses that confirm that two (OT and NT) witnesses are required.

Now, I have no wild aspirations that everyone is going to buy this, but it is the standard I hold to so anyone wanting to convince me of a doctrinal position regarding major issues has to do it using that standard. Even Revelation has 404 verses with almost 800 illusions to the OT. One just has to do their homework. And virtually everything Yeshua said in Matthew 24 and 25 is exposition on various passages of the OT.

The same standard applies in the New Testament.

The whole Bible is to be used but the Old Testament is not superior to the new. There is one Bible, not two.

The Old Testament was not all the early church had. Letters of the apostles went into circulation immediately.

And you have a problem. Such as the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never taught in the Old Testament nor existed in the Old Testament.

The gospel did not exist in the Old Testament.

The blood covenant of Christ did not exist in the Old Testament.

Just some examples.

Again. We do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic. New Testament was written in Greek. Hence your avatar is not as real as you think.

As said in another thread the Gospels are really old testament because Mosaic law was still in effect until the cross.

One Bible, one God and one Savior.
 

Copperhead

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That's a good point: God did allow him to assume office. I just don't believe that God wants us to be ignorant.

Matthew 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Philippians 3:18-19 - (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Paul gives that very warning when he counsels the Corinthians to take care "lest Satan take advantage of us, for we are not ignorant of his devices."

Matthew 24:24: At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect,if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance.…

I'm concerned that so many evangelicals have embraced Trump and they aren't using discernment nor being alert to the devices of the evil one. Christ would not have put those warnings in Scripture unless He meant exactly what He said.

Yeah, YHVH does not want us ignorant, but also does not want us to move our focus.

The Matthew 22:42 passage for instance. What are we to watch for? Satanic symbols, deep state intrigue, etc, our watching for the return and our gathering to the Lord.

Since I am firmly secure in the position that the departure of the redeemed happens before the man of sin is revealed, I waste about as much time on searching out the conspiracies and such as I do worrying about where my cat does his business outside.
 

Copperhead

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The same standard applies in the New Testament.

The whole Bible is to be used but the Old Testament is not superior to the new. There is one Bible, not two.

The Old Testament was not all the early church had. Letters of the apostles went into circulation immediately.

And you have a problem. Such as the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never taught in the Old Testament nor existed in the Old Testament.

The gospel did not exist in the Old Testament.

The blood covenant of Christ did not exist in the Old Testament.

Just some examples.

Again. We do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic. New Testament was written in Greek. Hence your avatar is not as real as you think.

As said in another thread the Gospels are really old testament because Mosaic law was still in effect until the cross.

One Bible, one God and one Savior.

Well, by Acts 17 was still pretty early. I am not convinced Paul had even written to the Thessalonians yet, and most scholars say that those were his earliest letters. Many put Peter’s letters in the 60’s AD. Revelation sure was nowhere around yet. When one subtracts all that, at best the Gospels were around, but all the written down teaching of the Apostles was still nonexistent.

But it still the applied standard I adhere to and truly eliminates the tabloid eschatology that gets tossed around. And if one also is required to make their case from both OT / NT and they can do it, they plant their case on a more sure footing. Keeps folks from being lazy expositors.
 

CoreIssue

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Well, by Acts 17 was still pretty early. I am not convinced Paul had even written to the Thessalonians yet, and most scholars say that those were his earliest letters. Many put Peter’s letters in the 60’s AD. Revelation sure was nowhere around yet. When one subtracts all that, at best the Gospels were around, but all the written down teaching of the Apostles was still nonexistent.

But it still the applied standard I adhere to and truly eliminates the tabloid eschatology that gets tossed around. And if one also is required to make their case from both OT / NT and they can do it, they plant their case on a more sure footing. Keeps folks from being lazy expositors.

The apostles were sent forth by Christ long before they wrote the letters.

In his letter Paul reminded them what he had told them face-to-face.

After about others went out the gospel and other revelation.

So it is a false demand to say has to be in writing. The apostles journeyed to many places and taught others to spread the gospel and the teachings.
 

Copperhead

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The apostles were sent forth by Christ long before they wrote the letters.

In his letter Paul reminded them what he had told them face-to-face.

After about others went out the gospel and other revelation.

So it is a false demand to say has to be in writing. The apostles journeyed to many places and taught others to spread the gospel and the teachings.

But we have to be honest, we don’t have the Apostles running around today clarifying what they meant, so we have to use some objective standard to test what YouTube Prophets are claiming the Apostles meant.

Else, with all the fractured hermeneutics that goes on, anyone can dream up any doctrine they want and make it sound plausible, unless it is tested to a higher degree. Paul told us to test. I am just following that guideline. Anyone who feels I need to consider their teaching has to meet that standard of support from both OT and NT or go sell it down at the street corner.

But I also must hold to that standard on anything I promote, and I make every effort to do so. So things are fair both ways.
 
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CoreIssue

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But we have to be honest, we don’t have the Apostles running around today clarifying what they meant, so we have to use some objective standard to test what YouTube Prophets are claiming the Apostles meant.

Else, with all the fractured hermeneutics that goes on, anyone can dream up any doctrine they want and make it sound plausible, unless it is tested to a higher degree. Paul told us to test. I am just following that guideline. Anyone who feels I need to consider their teaching has to meet that standard or go sell it down at the local park.

They are not around.

Fact is, there are more false start than true out there out there.

We are to use the Scriptures to test. That includes both old and new.

It also includes recognition that Mosaic law was fulfilled so we can't run to that.

Includes recognition that Israel is not the operative covenant, the blood covenant of Christ is.

Additionally recognition that the language and customs change.

Bottom line is we have to test, study and understand. Not always easy to do.