Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[Godssrvr]

Godssrvr: You have wandered off subject a bit, I believe. The OP is not about eternal security here just on earth. It is about it's application in the heavens. That is the twist that can make this subject difficult to comprehend, as you have to first understand why you have eternal salvation here. It also makes you think about your relationship with Christ and the angels in the heavens. If the spiritual communication process for example is the same...what is the 'new person' like...I don't think you can just broad blush the subject even though the answer remains the same, that eternal life is still assured. By going through this exercise you can see that we will be just like Christ, and having his mind, riding on the spirit or power of God in fullness...or the way 'open.' We do not experience that today, We are not aligned with the will of God and the mind of Christ today, as we will in our new bodies. And still we are assured eternal life here and up in the heavens.

One direst question in the OP is, how is our spiritual state different in the heavens..this begs some analysis work in its self....and of course it will be different that ensures us not to lose eternal life.

Bless you,

APAK

Thanks for expressing my need to elaborate APAK. The truth is in scripture, and the truth is made simple by God, but difficult by man. Jesus said......."that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).

The bible says when we trust Christ as our Savior, we are spiritually, "born again". Our spirit is "one spirit" with Him (1 Cor. 6:17). This is an eternal truth, not just for our earthly life.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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Our salvation is finished and God recognizes us now in eternity future as already "glorified". He sees the "finished" product so to speak, even though it has not been revealed to us as of yet.

______________________________________________________

Romans 8:30
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Stranger]

Will we want to?
We have experienced life as sinners, we have never experienced life as 'perfect' being.
I think the contrast between what we were and what we will be, will be great enough that we will not want to return to what we once were.
Don't forget that it is not just the change in ourselfs but we will also be in the prescence of God and of Jesus.
Will we realy want to leave there prescence?

Yes, I agree. It is the process of salvation, due to the fall, that has given us that experience. It is the imputation of our sin to Christ and Christ's righteousness to us that is necessary to place us in Christ. And it will be because we are 'in Christ' forever, that there will be no chance of our ever losing our place in Heaven.

In other words, once we get there we are not just perfect and holy beings enjoying heaven and the presence of God. We are there as perfect and Holy beings because we are in Christ. Adam and Eve were in the presence of God also. But they were only perfect and sinless beings.

And when did we get 'in Christ'. Here in this sinful world on earth. So, if it was when we were born-again that we were placed in Christ, and that assures our place in Heaven for ever, then it also assures our getting to Heaven while we are saved here. Our place and position that we now have in Heaven is the same we have when we are born-again.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

We do have a flesh nature and a divine nature as Christians. All sins we commit are in the flesh only, and the flesh is dead to God. We live for Him only through the "new man" which was created "in Christ".

Eternal security is not a "heavy" subject. It has been made heavy by man. It's actually the basic gospel of salvation which is eternal and rests in the "simplicity that is in Christ".

2 Corinthians 11:1-4
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

We have a human nature and a divine nature as Christians. Our old man was composed of body, soul, and spirit also. All was fallen. Adam and Eve when they fell, they sinned in body, soul, and spirit. As a Christian our spirits have been born-again, but not our body. That is yet future. The body consists of the flesh, and thus the flesh is weak as it is still fallen.

Eternal security can be, as with any subject in the Bible, very simple or very complex. It all depends where one is at in their maturity in Christ. God is able to meet all where they are at.

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

(John 14:2-3) "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

(John 17:24) "Father,I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me:..."

Stranger

There is a problem with the verses you believe say we are going to some other place, particularly the first one. What Jesus Christ says here lines up with the narrative given in Revelation. Gods kingdom is a place with many mansions, a kingdom he will bring to us, not the other way around. His kingdom will come, and his will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Scripture hasn't given me a reason to be concerned about going anywhere at all, he's coming to us anyway. His second coming is what is promised, not us being jettisoned to some other dimension.

 

[Helen]

Scripture hasn't given me a reason to be concerned about going anywhere at all, he's coming to us anyway. His second coming is what is promised, not us being jettisoned to some other dimension.

While I don't disagree with you post...it did bring to mind my parents and Christian friends which have "gone'.
If they aren't in some 'other dimension' then where are they ?
...their soul and spirit 'are' somewhere. ( I do not believe anyone, except the man Jesus Christ , has entered Heaven..the place of God's 'Throne' )

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know about going to heaven since its never explicitly stated that any of us are going anywhere except the promised new earth.

ty! the kingdom of heaven is within you, or beside you, and it is the vain imaginings of pretending to know something that Scripture explicitly states, many times, that we cannot know, that leads to such tripe as is reflected in the rest of this thread imo.

"our free will is permanently curtailed" just yikes already

 

[bbyrd009]

If they aren't in some 'other dimension' then where are they ?

see, it is the Primary Burning Human Desire to answer this Q, and Scripture assures you it cannot be answered; you have to go to ppl like Stranger if you want this answered, that is the only way to get an answer for this--you have to find ppl who assure you that they know, see. Now, just try Quoting the relevant Scripture to Stranger and see what happens, and only then will you know the truth imo

we do not yet know what we will become
no one knows where they go when they die
the dead know nothing
all go to the same place
16Samuel answered, "Since the LORD has turned away from you and has become your enemy, why are you asking me?
19The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me, and the LORD will hand Israel's army over to the Philistines."

 

[bbyrd009]

Those that are dead in Christ are free from sin. They can sin no more (Romans 6:7).

imo the problem comes when we arbitrarily include ourselves in this group, believing that we have somehow attained it by "belief."
i would be letting other ppl, or iow your "rep" speak for this wadr. otherwise we end up commending ourselves to each other?

i seek to "die daily," certainly; but i also notice that i am...worse here in the afternoon, more self, less dead, iow.
"Dead in Christ" is not a permanent place, iow, even if tassel-toes says it is

 

[Davy]

imo the problem comes when we arbitrarily include ourselves in this group, believing that we have somehow attained it by "belief."
i would be letting other ppl, or iow your "rep" speak for this wadr. otherwise we end up commending ourselves to each other?

i seek to "die daily," certainly; but i also notice that i am...worse here in the afternoon, more self, less dead, iow.
"Dead in Christ" is not a permanent place, iow, even if tassel-toes says it is

Not the context of my post.

Like Apostle Paul said, one who is LITERALLY dead, has ceased from sinning. That's the context I intended, not what you're trying say, and badly I might add.

 

[bbyrd009]

lol, everyone's a judge now huh lol

LITERALLY dead

"dead in Christ" = "literally dead" here? hmm, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

Like Apostle Paul said, one who is LITERALLY dead, has ceased from sinning.

that does not seem to be the intent of the passage imo

1What should we say then?a Should we continue in sin so that grace may multiply?b 2Absolutely not!c Howcan we who died to sind still live in it? 3Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptizede into ChristJesus were baptized into His death?f 4Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death,g in order that, just as Christ was raised from the deadh by the glory of the Father,i so we too may •walk in a new wayjof life.k 5For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death,l we will certainly also bem in the likeness of His resurrection.

 

[bbyrd009]

6For we know that our old selfn, o was crucified with Himp in order that sin’sdominion over the bodyq may be abolished,r so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin, 7since a personwho has dieds is freedt from sin’s claims.u 8Now if we died with Christ,v we believe that we will also live withHim, 9because we know that Christ, having been raised from the dead,w will not die again. Death no longerrules over Him.x 10For in light of the fact that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in light of the fact thatHe lives, He lives to God. 11So, you too consider yourselves dead to siny but alive to God in Christ Jesus.z

10,000 characters, sheesh, i don't think that is even 1000 characters, up there--anyone else dealing with this?

 

[Davy]

lol, everyone's a judge now huh lol

"dead in Christ" = "literally dead" here? hmm, ok

What terrible false witness you bear!

Yes, Paul is speaking of the idea of literally dead in this verse:

Rom 6:7
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV

But only spiritually in this verse:

Rom 6:11
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV

So why have you tried to twist my words by telling a LIE?

Why do your words betray you, and show that you side with those who only care to create strife and confusion?

 

[bbyrd009]

why not just get offended then lol, i guess

you have to find ppl who assure you that they know, see.

which don't get me wrong, maybe Stranger knows, i don't know

 

[bbyrd009]

What terrible false witness you bear!

Yes, Paul is speaking of the idea of literally dead in this verse:

Rom 6:7
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV

But only spiritually in this verse:

Rom 6:11
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV

So why have you tried to twist my words by telling a LIE?

Why do your words betray you, and show that you side with those who only care to create strife and confusion?

i would say that v6 says differently, but maybe some other posters will have a different perspective.
I would seek witnesses here, to establish truth

 

[Davy]

i would say that v6 says differently, but maybe some other posters will have a different perspective.
I would seek witnesses here, to establish truth

If you can't tell that Rom.6:7 is meant literally, then it means you completely MISSED Paul's comparison there!

You can't compare verse 7 as meaning spiritually dead, with verse 11 which is meant in the spiritual sense. In other words, if the IDEA of death is not a literal thing to start with, then Paul's comparison would not even work.

Your just being silly.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, let's see what the witnesses say, i certainly have many off-site, and i will contemplate your post.

Is Paul referring to literal death in this passage? Anyone?

 

[Helen]

well, let's see what the witnesses say, i certainly have many off-site, and i will contemplate your post.

Is Paul referring to literal death in this passage? Anyone?

Agree. When it says "likeness of" that is not literally, but a 'likeness of.'

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. "

 

[bbyrd009]

you blasphemer you, lol

 

[forrestcupp]

Rom 6:7 means literally dead, but he is only using that as a figurative example of our lives on earth. In v. 11, it's completely figurative, because he says consider yourselves to be dead to sin. That means that right now, we're supposed to live like we're already dead to sin, and alive to Christ. What that also means is that we still very much have the capability to sin, even as reborn Christians, and we have to actively consider, which is an action in our minds, that we are dead to sin. The battleground is in your mind. Whatever you set your mind to is how you're going to live. Think like you're dead to sin, and alive to Christ.

On a different topic in this thread: I'm not here to argue and debate. But just out of curiosity, what do you guys think this verse means?

Hebrews 6:4–6

[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (ESV)