Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[Dcopymope]

While I don't disagree with you post...it did bring to mind my parents and Christian friends which have "gone'.
If they aren't in some 'other dimension' then where are they ?
...their soul and spirit 'are' somewhere. ( I do not believe anyone, except the man Jesus Christ , has entered Heaven..the place of God's 'Throne' )

Well, since spirit isn't something that can be perceived even with the most powerful microscope, then it already being in another dimension wouldn't be a stretch. What makes you think your spirit isn't in another dimension right now?? People talk about being "caught up" in the spirit, but that doesn't explain anything in of itself. Not even Paul himself could explain him being "caught up" in the spirit with his encounter with Jesus. As far as Jesus Christ being the only one that has entered heaven, that doesn't explain the transfiguration showing Moses and Elijah up there having a chat with God. We'll never fully understand how the spirit realm relates to the physical until perhaps God returns and we can ask him ourselves. This is one of those things that will remain more or less a mystery for now at least.

 

[bbyrd009]

perhaps, but trust that children and dogs recognize your spirit when you walk into a room, imo

This is an eternal truth, not just for our earthly life.

are you fam with Nehushtan?
strong men?
strong delusions?

these should also be considered in your equation, imo, and seems like they are being ignored, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

Rom 6:7 means literally dead,

seems a hard sell, coming on the heels of
For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin's dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to (dead in) sin,

but to each his own i guess

 

[Godssrvr]

What that also means is that we still very much have the capability to sin

True for our mortal man, not for our spirit in Christ.

I believe in Hebrews 6:4-6, the writer is speaking of those who have been saved at one point, then were deceived by a false gospel. It is impossible to bring them to repentance again because in the context of justification, we can only repent (change our mind concerning our faith) once. At that point, we are born again, so there is no further repentance in the context of justification.

 

[Godssrvr]

Eternal security can be, as with any subject in the Bible, very simple or very complex

Eternal security is the gospel. If a person believes they can lose salvation, they have never received the Holy Spirit, because they have not trusted Christ by faith. They are in some way depending on themselves.

 

[Stranger]

There is a problem with the verses you believe say we are going to some other place, particularly the first one. What Jesus Christ says here lines up with the narrative given in Revelation. Gods kingdom is a place with many mansions, a kingdom he will bring to us, not the other way around. His kingdom will come, and his will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Scripture hasn't given me a reason to be concerned about going anywhere at all, he's coming to us anyway. His second coming is what is promised, not us being jettisoned to some other dimension.

If Jesus is leaving earth and going to Heaven to prepare a place for us then that place is not on the earth. It is in His Fathers house.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Eternal security is the gospel. If a person believes they can lose salvation, they have never received the Holy Spirit, because they have not trusted Christ by faith. They are in some way depending on themselves.

I think there are plenty of believers who have received the Holy Spirit who believe you can lose your salvation. It doesn't mean they haven't come to Christ by faith. I disagree with them, but most that I know are saved.

Stranger

 

[APAK]

forrestcupp:
Hebrews 6:4-6

[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (ESV) ​

Yes, this is off topic indeed, although it applies to those during the time of Christ that were practicing their faith under the law. They gained knowledge and enlightenment of the gospel and even felt the presence of the spirit of God. However, they never made any commitment to follow God via his grace he was about to bestow on them. They turned back to practicing the law again. This mocks the truth and the son of God and his saving work on the cross. Their repentance was empty and meaningless as their repentance was always in the faith of the law and not faith in Christ’s work and the grace of God.

APAK

 

[Helen]

I think there are plenty of believers who have received the Holy Spirit who believe you can lose your salvation. It doesn't mean they haven't come to Christ by faith. I disagree with them, but most that I know are saved.

Stranger

Yes agree.
It sometimes amazes me when we see someone who doesn't believe in a rapture, or sees the hell scriptures differently, or disagrees on works v faith..
water baptism or no water baptism, even the trinity argument...and they cry out -" You can't be a real Christian"..as if being a 'real Christian' ( whatever that is) means we all must believe the self same thing!
I'm sure half of us or more...have some offbeat beliefs that don't line up with the main-line fundamentalists.
In my years, I have found that those who judge the harshest usually have the hardest, legalist, hearts.

Even the 'Spirit filled' believers can have some off the wall beliefs...I am too far left for many of my Charismatic friends. I dare to believe in the salvation of all mankind.

 

[APAK]

Rom 6:7 means literally dead, but he is only using that as a figurative example of our lives on earth. In v. 11, it's completely figurative, because he says consider yourselves to be dead to sin. That means that right now, we're supposed to live like we're already dead to sin, and alive to Christ. What that also means is that we still very much have the capability to sin, even as reborn Christians, and we have to actively consider, which is an action in our minds, that we are dead to sin. The battleground is in your mind. Whatever you set your mind to is how you're going to live. Think like you're dead to sin, and alive to Christ.

On a different topic in this thread: I'm not here to argue and debate. But just out of curiosity, what do you guys think this verse means?

Hebrews 6:4–6

[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (ESV)

forrestcupp:​

Was not quick enough to write under your post....here's my reply again..


Hebrews 6:4-6
[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (ESV)

Yes, this is off topic indeed, although it applies to those during the time of Christ that were practicing their faith under the law. They gained knowledge and enlightenment of the gospel and even felt the presence of the spirit of God. However, they never made any commitment to follow God via his grace he was about to bestow on them. They turned back to practicing the law again. This mocks the truth and the son of God and his saving work on the cross. Their repentance was empty and meaningless as their repentance was always in the faith of the law and not faith in Christ’s work and the grace of God.

APAK

 

[Godssrvr]

I think there are plenty of believers who have received the Holy Spirit who believe you can lose your salvation. It doesn't mean they haven't come to Christ by faith. I disagree with them, but most that I know are saved.

Stranger

I understand believers can be deceived, but anyone believing "another gospel" that teaches salvation can be lost has not believed the truth. A person cannot be saved by a false gospel. If someone has been saved, but is deceived, it shouldn't take much to bring them to the truth again. I have a problem believing someone who is born again, having the Spirit of God indwelling them, would debate against the truth of eternal security for any real length of time. It should be fairly easy to reveal that truth to them again through scripture. (1 John 2:27)

 

[Godssrvr]

Yes agree.
It sometimes amazes me when we see someone who doesn't believe in a rapture, or sees the hell scriptures differently, or disagrees on works v faith..
water baptism or no water baptism, even the trinity argument...and they cry out -" You can't be a real Christian"..as if being a 'real Christian' ( whatever that is) means we all must believe the self same thing!

The gospel is by grace, through faith, in Christ alone. Anything other than that is a false doctrine that has no power to save.

Galatians 2:4-5
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

 

[Dcopymope]

If Jesus is leaving earth and going to Heaven to prepare a place for us then that place is not on the earth. It is in His Fathers house.

Stranger

But it will end up being on earth because he will bring it to us not vice versa, which is the entire point.

 

[Stranger]

I understand believers can be deceived, but anyone believing "another gospel" that teaches salvation can be lost has not believed the truth. A person cannot be saved by a false gospel. If someone has been saved, but is deceived, it shouldn't take much to bring them to the truth again. I have a problem believing someone who is born again, having the Spirit of God indwelling them, would debate against the truth of eternal security for any real length of time. It should be fairly easy to reveal that truth to them again through scripture. (1 John 2:27)

I would say the Gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Whether one can lose or not lose that salvation comes later through Bible study. And many come to a different conclusion. There are many Christians in the denomination of 'Church of Christ' and they believe you can lose your salvation. And I would say the vast majority of them are saved and going to heaven. Same with the Roman Church and I believe the Church of the Nazerene.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

The gospel is by grace, through faith, in Christ alone. Anything other than that is a false doctrine that has no power to save.

Sorry..I cannot agree with you. You are limiting God! Most times I agree with your posts..this time I cannot. Why?
Because of my own experience!!
I came to Christ a strange way...but, contrary to what you write here...God will, and does, use anything to get His word and will across ( a donkey, case in point)

God started drawing me to Himself via Herbert Armstong...and the British Israelite movement.
I studied and studied all that they wrote. I wrote letters to them.
But it was God who was drawing me to Himself.
He knew I loved history..and I was sucked into the Armstrongites teachings.

Anyway, it took a while and my own Father asked a Pentecostal pastor to visit me and help me out.
But God did use a false teacher to draw my interest ...but I agree..Armstongism had no real power , I could see that..and I kept searching for the Truth. ( this was in the 60's )

 

[Stranger]

But it will end up being on earth because he will bring it to us not vice versa, which is the entire point.

There is nothing to indicate the place Jesus goes and prepares for us comes back to earth. We may come back with Him, but our place is in Heaven. Our place is in the Father's house. The kingdom of God on the earth is just that, the kingdom of God on the earth.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Yes agree.
It sometimes amazes me when we see someone who doesn't believe in a rapture, or sees the hell scriptures differently, or disagrees on works v faith..
water baptism or no water baptism, even the trinity argument...and they cry out -" You can't be a real Christian"..as if being a 'real Christian' ( whatever that is) means we all must believe the self same thing!
I'm sure half of us or more...have some offbeat beliefs that don't line up with the main-line fundamentalists.
In my years, I have found that those who judge the harshest usually have the hardest, legalist, hearts.

Even the 'Spirit filled' believers can have some off the wall beliefs...I am too far left for many of my Charismatic friends. I dare to believe in the salvation of all mankind.

The salvation of all mankind? You should start another thread on that.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

The salvation of all mankind? You should start another thread on that.

Stranger

Not likely...been there done that.
I may start a bloggish kind of thread like Webers_Home has..most times he just write to himself. Maybe I will do that on Hell too.
Trouble is, experience has shown me that people get nasty...they hate what they believe to be all upset so defend it violently.
I see no point in that...and wont "go there".

 

[Pipiripi]

Jesus says in my father house there's many mansions. I go and prepaid one for you. So, When Jesus return for the second time. We will go and lived 1000 years millennium with Him in His father house in heaven. And after the 1000 years we come back to earth.

 

[Dcopymope]

There is nothing to indicate the place Jesus goes and prepares for us comes back to earth. We may come back with Him, but our place is in Heaven. Our place is in the Father's house. The kingdom of God on the earth is just that, the kingdom of God on the earth.

Stranger

You seem to believe "our fathers house" is or will be a different place from the "kingdom of God" on earth. Where is that indicated?? It plainly states the 'Father' will be on the new earth with us, on his throne.

Jesus says in my father house there's many mansions. I go and prepaid one for you. So, When Jesus return for the second time. We will go and lived 1000 years millennium with Him in His father house in heaven. And after the 1000 years we come back to earth.

The 1,000 year reign is on earth, not in heaven. After the 1,000 year reign comes the lake of fire judgement and the new earth.