Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Grailhunter]

They most likely can't. But, God will if they believed in Jesus Christ.

Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

How many ways can you end up in Hell? One of them is that you were not saved to begin with....if you were not changed in the beginning you were never saved. A practicing homosexual can go through the whole process and even believe in Christ and not be saved and destined for Hell.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21....Again...Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Like I said there is a large portion of the Bible you have to ignore to believe in OSAS. Warnings like this occur throughout the New Testament.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree with your view that our walk is a daily choice. Even so, for sinners like me, the exhortation to "make the choice daily" doesn't give me much confidence that I won't fail. As you point out. some will fall away.

Assurance isn't based on my daily choice but on something significantly more reliable and profound. I mentioned Romans 5:1-5 to Wrangler, wherein Paul exalts in the glory of God. In that passage, Paul lists a set of conditions found in those who will never fall away.

• Justified by faith
• hope in the glory of God
• tribulations and tests of faith
• perseverance under testing
• proven character
• hope
• the Holy Spirit given to us.

If these conditions are present in a person, then that person will always make the choice to remain and never fall away.

Matthew,
Just because people misuse a term doesn't mean it isn't Biblical. The Bible teaches that God chooses individuals for salvation. The question is whether God chose me and how can I know?

BTW, I don't conjure. :) The statements I make are sometimes too short and too abbreviated for a paper on the subject, but here in a discussion forum, my time and space are limited. :) Earlier, when I talked about God's "elect" I was thinking of Romans 8, where Paul uses the term to make reference to those whom God has chosen to save. In this instance, I want to quote a long passage for our review.

Romans 8:31-39

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,​

​

“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;​

We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”​

​

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

The topic of discussion here is Paul's perspective on those whom God has "justified." He refers to them as "God's elect." God is the one who justifies, who is the one who condemns? The implied answer is, "no one that matters." According to Paul, certain people are singled out and chosen for salvation, and if such a person has been chosen by God for salvation, then certain situations and conditions follow from that. For instance, although the elect will suffer persecution, famine, nakedness and all the rest, the elect will "overwhelmingly conquer through him who loved us."

You are correct in your observation that one should not assume that one is "elect." In a congregation of Christians, one may find only a handful of people whom God is actually saving. As we know, not all those who name the name of Christ are actually one of his. But neither one of us can know for sure whether another person has been selected for salvation. Only God can tell us apart at a glance.

Here is what it is.

People believe.

People believe and abide in Christ.

Or People believe and do not.

That is all I know, thinking about it earlier, thank you for your assessments as well.

God will judge - Those who believe and abide in Christ will have faith, and love. (That's all I know.) Love in the agape sense, and also will abide in the teachings of Christ (IE: Allow Gods will through their lives, rather than their own will.)

 

[BlessedPeace]

But what about posts 55, 88, 89, and 91?

You are absolutely wrong!

Do you absolutely think righteousness will humble pride here?

 

[MatthewG]

Here is something else to consider to.... @CadyandZoe


The apostles taught, Jesus Christ... Okay?



Therefore... while people believe, - some people dont know to die to themselves... for example.


Some people may not really grasp or even know the "death, burial, and resurrection" they are to go through...

While I believe its good to share when spirit lead, and not overburden someone... these are just facts that still remain...


I would have never known about the death, burial, and resurrection an individual goes through without learning from Paul...

This gives anyone out there more incentive to teach, perhaps and share when lead by the spirit cause in the end of life, you will rewarded justly keep having faith, and keep abiding in Christ because without him you can do nothing...


Profound right?

Whats even more profound is we aren't promised to even go into heaven right away... if you read REvelation 22 - you can see a "MAY" enter . . . to the tree of life, and "may" enter into the gate... it really puts a strain on what naturally is taught..

but God is good, and he also has a place for unbelievers and believers praise God for that.

Outside or inside the Kingdom.


Dont give up, hope, faith, and of course LOVE (Agape 1 Corinthians 13).

 

[GeneZ]

He is not going to lose you but He may judge you to Hell.
Once a Christian always a Christian but you might be a Christian in Hell.

Will you do the housekeeping?

 

[GeneZ]

Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

How many ways can you end up in Hell? One of them is that you were not saved to begin with....if you were not changed in the beginning you were never saved. A practicing homosexual can go through the whole process and even believe in Christ and not be saved and destined for Hell.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21....Again...Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Like I said there is a large portion of the Bible you have to ignore to believe in OSAS. Warnings like this occur throughout the New Testament.

Jesus paid for the sins of the world. Unbelief is the only way to Hell.

 

[GeneZ]

Do you absolutely think righteousness will humble pride here?

No.... But those post numbers I randomly made up.
To show that person how well citing post numbers serve the purpose of making sense to one's argument.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus paid for the sins of the world. Unbelief is the only way to Hell.

LOL You so funny....but the joke will be on you. I can see you think you can play Christ for a fool. So sad.

 

[amigo de christo]

Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

How many ways can you end up in Hell? One of them is that you were not saved to begin with....if you were not changed in the beginning you were never saved. A practicing homosexual can go through the whole process and even believe in Christ and not be saved and destined for Hell.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21....Again...Believing in Christ is not a ticket to Heaven.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Like I said there is a large portion of the Bible you have to ignore to believe in OSAS. Warnings like this occur throughout the New Testament.

Everything was good except the first line . BELIEVING IN CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY .
The problem is as you said most believe but they have no faith at all . THEY believe but do not follow . Plus
if you examine them , YOU will find the VERSION of jesus they believe in accepts sins . THUS that means
THEY DONT TRULY BELIEVE IN THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST . Ponder on that for abit my friend .
YOU see most follow another jesus . THEREIN Lies the problem RIGHT THERE .

 

[amigo de christo]

LOL You so funny....but the joke will be on you. I can see you think you can play Christ for a fool. So sad.

Actually that is very scary , not funny . and it wont be no joke either . The lake of fire is very real indeed
and it awaits all who loved a lie , who rejected the love of the truth , who rejected CHRIST JESUS .
That universal all inclusive false love stuff they try and treach , GOTTA GO , tis ecumincalism that simply cannot save but rather will grave .

 

[GeneZ]

LOL You so funny....but the joke will be on you. I can see you think you can play Christ for a fool. So sad.

If we could lose our salvation? Scripture would SCREAM at us that we can.

It would read like a legalistic preacher wanting to run and control people's lives.
It would have been the original "Karen."

 

[Grailhunter]

Everything was good except the first line . BELIEVING IN CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY .
The problem is as you said most believe but they have no faith at all . THEY believe but do not follow . Plus
if you examine them , YOU will find the VERSION of jesus they believe in accepts sins . THUS that means
THEY DONT TRULY BELIEVE IN THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST . Ponder on that for abit my friend .
YOU see most follow another jesus . THEREIN Lies the problem RIGHT THERE .

Believing in Christ is a requirement for salvation....but not a ticket to Heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

If we could lose our salvation? Scripture would SCREAM at us that we can.

It would read like a legalistic preacher wanting to run and control people's lives.
It would have been the original "Karen."

The Bible tells you how many ways you can go to Hell.
And salvation is not like the key to your house that you can lose. Salvation is tied to obedience. Like I said you can be a Christian screaming in Hell. But on the other hand I do not believe that there will be that many Christians in Hell. I think most of them in Hell will be people that thought they were saved but were not. And that includes people like you that went through the motions but thought you could do anything you want and not go to Hell. Never were saved.

 

[GeneZ]

The Bible tells you how many ways you can go to Hell.

There is only one way to go to Hell.

But, many ways to try to make life Hell for others who remain ignorant of God's Word.
I would think a person who enjoys making life Hell for others deserves to go there.

 

[Grailhunter]

There is only one way to go to Hell.

But, many ways to try to make life Hell for others who remain ignorant of God's Word.
I would think a person who enjoys making life Hell for others deserves to go there.

Oh let me count the ways....LOL
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[GeneZ]

He is not going to lose you but He may judge you to Hell.
Once a Christian always a Christian but you might be a Christian in Hell.

I want everybody here to see that.

That's how you think.

He is not going to lose you but He may judge you to Hell.
Once a Christian always a Christian but you might be a Christian in Hell.

That is trampling on the blood of Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

People are human beings. Some believe thet are right in their own mind.

Its up to you as an individual to seek for truth.

I dojt have any reason to condemn people or battle with them…

All it does it puff up the flesh …

Sometimes ya just gotta be jesus and write in the sand, or just not say anything at all.

But if your like me: human.

Your flesh will love to sin and fight and argue for arguments sake.

All the best thank you everyone who comes by and shared their thoughts.

Once saved always saved doesnt mean anything.


Following with a overscope of Jesus victory of Christ will help a lot but if you still dont believe Jesus has won ….


Youre gonna have some issues; love is the biggest thing in conjuction with Faith,

Love God; love others.



Stop mocking people with hell and grow up… or dont. Thats your choice. If condemned by saying this; well be it all me to well to lie.

Growing up from a babe in christ to a mature son or daughter in Christ is hard…

Some people still need milk and not meat.

Revelation 21-22 find out where people really end up and let go of the traditions you hold.

Again a total choice which is up to you; may God guide.

 

[Grailhunter]

I want everybody here to see that.

That's how you think.



That is trampling on the blood of Christ.

No it is telling the truth...
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21...

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The Truth can set you free but on the other hand if it convicts you it can be scary.

 

[GeneZ]

No it is telling the truth...
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21...

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...No evil in Heaven!

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The Truth can set you free but on the other hand if it convicts you it can be scary.

I want to congratulate you....

You need to be put on Ignore.

 

[BlessedPeace]

No.... But those post numbers I randomly made up.
To show that person how well citing post numbers serve the purpose of making sense to one's argument.

I see. Thank you for explaining your method.:)