Once Saved Always Saved

[Grailhunter]

How could you say your answer was accurate when your answer was “That decision of judgment is above our paygrade.”? Only you could understand what you meant by that.

Military terminology. Judgment of a higher rank....in this case God.

I am not asking about that. Again, I was asking if you believe there are false brethren among the Christians. Do you believe or you do not?

Galatians 5:4
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Paul is talking about Judaizers. Christian liberty...freedom from the Mosaic Law. Bondage being under the Mosaic Law.

 

[Grailhunter]

And my point is only that Christ was made alive, raised to life from the dead. And that we, the elect of God were likewise made alive together with Christ. And that was a done deed. It can’t be undone, just as the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ can’t be undone.

You have had so many scriptures given do you and you remain obdurate to repenting of your false belief, I do not see any reason to waste God's good Word on you further.

 

[Grailhunter]

What part?

Tong
R2945

All of it.

 

[Tong2020]

Moving the goalposts. You don't want to accept answers when they do not conform to your doctrine. There is nothing in the Bible that says believe once and you are all set. Lip service will not get you past the gates of heaven.

There are many verses that say keep believing to the end. Is that enough evidence for you?

We have a responsibility to act when we become believers. Jesus says it over and over again. We are salt, but will be thrown away if we lose flavor. We are the vine but will be thrown into the fire if we do not produce fruit. Calling him Lord is insufficient but only those that ACT, who actually do the will of the Father will go to heaven.

<<<Moving the goalposts. You don't want to accept answers when they do not conform to your doctrine.>>>

I asked why you keep believing. You said the reason is evidence. I asked what evidence. Is that moving the goal post? Your answers were not clear. So I keep asking. For how could I respond to something that isn’t clear to me?

<<<There is nothing in the Bible that says believe once and you are all set. Lip service will not get you past the gates of heaven.>>>

Nobody is saying anything like that.

And by the way, there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of the apostles telling the unbelievers to whom the gospel is preached to repent and believe and keep believing. What we have is to repent and believe.

<<<There are many verses that say keep believing to the end. Is that enough evidence for you?>>>

Yes. And that is said within a context.

Enough evidence for what?

<<<We have a responsibility to act when we become believers.>>>

Of course we have. But such responsibility isn’t one that makes or breaks our salvation, something that Jesus Christ was responsible for.

Tong
R2946

 

[Tong2020]

Sins can be forgiven...it is the intent to go on sinning that will land you in hell.

Being not in Christ Jesus is what will lan you in hell.

There is no other savior who saves you from hell except Jesus Christ. No other being and no other thing. Not even yourself.

Tong
R2947

 

[Charlie24]

I think you have to read again Hebrews 6:4-6. But read it without taking with you any other intent but to understand what it says. Perhaps you will see something there you don’t yet see.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Tong
R2921

Brother Tong, my friend, there comes a time when we have to just agree to disagree.

I have seen your passion in what you believe and I honor that, but my friend, I can't agree.

 

[Tong2020]

And in the case of my analogy, what does not seem applicable to you?

Wrangler said: ↑
The analogy I use is that we are all drowning. Jesus is the Savior and throws us a life preserver and we can have total trust and faith in him always providing this means of our survival. However, the burden is always on us to actually receive the life preserver. And it is not merely the initial holding on to the life preserver that matters. What matters is constantly holding onto the gift of salvation. Otherwise, we risk our survival with every release of the gift, e.g., turning our back on him.

Supposing otherwise is an unrealistic assessment of our predicament.

It is not a good analogy. If there be any figure that is a good one is that which scriptures give, such as the figure of a slave being freed. Another is the figure of the sheep and the Good Shepherd in John 10.

Tong
R2948

 

[Grailhunter]

Being not in Christ Jesus is what will lan you in hell.

There is no other savior who saves you from hell except Jesus Christ. No other being and no other thing. Not even yourself.

Tong
R2947

Repent of your heretical beliefs.
That will be all you get from me.
And when you are standing before Christ on Judgment Day, remember I told you that.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Twist? How so? Not so. You have to know where this discussion between me and Ferris is coming from.

I know full well where the discussion between you and Ferris is coming from. I showed it plainly from the posts. You are twisting what he is saying by pretending he said there is no conditions to forgiveness - then mocked him for it.

Friend, this is not the Spirit of truth and grace.

I don’t think so. Perhaps in part. What you’ve shown from the post is just a part of it. You have to go way back down the thread.

So before you accuse me of twisting what he is saying, please make sure you are in the right, else you will be guilty of wrong doing.

Also, please show where I mocked him.

And you are right, such is not the spirit of truth and grace.

Tong
R2949

 

[Tong2020]

Galatians 5:4
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Paul is talking about Judaizers. Christian liberty...freedom from the Mosaic Law. Bondage being under the Mosaic Law.

That’s right, Judaizers. And who are these Judaizers, according to Paul? They are false brethren, that is Christians, believers, many of which belongs to the church at Jerusalem.

Do you still not believe there are false brethren?

Very simple question, isn’t it? And it seems it will take forever to get a simple answer from you.

Tong
R2950

 

[Grailhunter]

That’s right, Judaizers. And who are these Judaizers, according to Paul? They are false brethren, that is Christians, believers, many of which belongs to the church at Jerusalem.

Do you still not believe there are false brethren?

Very simple question, isn’t it? And it seems it will take forever to get a simple answer from you.

Tong
R2950

Repent of your heretical beliefs.

 

[Wrangler]

I asked why you keep believing. You said the reason is evidence. I asked what evidence. Is that moving the goal post?

1st, I already provided an entire thread on what the evidence is.

2nd, I just said it is moving the goal post.

3rd, you did not merely ask about evidence but you asked about Jesus.

Yes, you moved the goal posts.

 

[Wrangler]

So before you accuse me of twisting what he is saying,

I did already say you are twisting what he said.
I already showed were you were twisting his words.

Also, please show where I mocked him.

Again, I already did show you were you mocked him.

 

[marks]

But you forget Romans 3:10-11.

I don't know what you mean.

Romans 3:10-11 KJV
10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I think you have to read again Hebrews 6:4-6. But read it without taking with you any other intent but to understand what it says. Perhaps you will see something there you don’t yet see.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Himto an open shame.

Brother Tong, my friend, there comes a time when we have to just agree to disagree.

I have seen your passion in what you believe and I honor that, but my friend, I can't agree.

Thank you for your humble and kind words, brother Charlie.

I respect your position on this.

Not for anything else that I suggested that, but that you might see something there if you read it without then intention of proving someone else’s doctrine wrong.

But allow me to point something in there. What is impossible is to renew them to repentance. That is, if, and let me repeat that, if, they fall away.

Now, if say you (just to make my point) fall away today, do you see yourself impossible to to be renewed to repentance?

You don’t need to reply to this thread. As I said I respect your position.

Tong
R2951

 

[marks]

The problem is, that the Bible does not say that....and no matter what you do, you cannot make it say that.

No, but it does say that.

John wrote, I saw the dead, great and small, before the throne . . . to be judged. These are raised again, but not to life, they are still dead.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

No, but it does say that.

John wrote, I saw the dead, great and small, before the throne . . . to be judged. These are raised again, but not to life, they are still dead.

Much love!

Repent of your heretical beliefs.

 

[Wrangler]

It is not a good analogy.

Saying it is not good does not explain why it is not good.

If there be any figure that is a good one is that which scriptures give, such as the figure of a slave being freed.

Insightful analogy. When the slaves were freed in America, there was no action plan of what they were to do after. Many literally went back to doing the work of slaves.

There are many records of the freed slaves being worse off because their former masters had no interest in proving them food, clothing, shelter or healthcare.

So, you cannot free slaves in theory and they will benefit in practice unless associated action is taken, such as land grants, education on what it means to be free and responsible as well as applicable laws and training. What do these former slaves know how to do besides slave work? In addition, what action is to be taken to fill the vacuum of the work formerly done by slaves? (As you know, such a vacuum lends itself to a return to the old order).

 

[Corlove13]

I hope I can add to this thread...
Call me Cor. I am just a learner...

The question I first would asked What does the Bible say one is saved from....
And what does that mean to you? Add one scripture to support your point.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Being not in Christ Jesus is what will lan you in hell.

There is no other savior who saves you from hell except Jesus Christ. No other being and no other thing. Not even yourself.

Repent of your heretical beliefs.
That will be all you get from me.
And when you are standing before Christ on Judgment Day, remember I told you that.

If to believe that there is no other savior who saves man from hell except Jesus Christ is heretical, I will repent. But that is definitely not heretical. To believe otherwise is what is heretical.

It’s okay if I don’t get anything from you but that. What Jesus Christ have given me is way way more than enough. He is all I want and need to have more than anything else.

God bless you!

Tong
R2952