Once Saved Always Saved

[kcnalp]

The only “ gift” you possess is showing an on-looking world what “ Falling from Grace” looks like..... keep up the good work !

So you're admitting that someone can "fall from Grace"!

 

[marks]

I have to say that they are a done deed.

Tong
R2937

That's what makes them so wonderful!

It's like in Hebrews were He says we are to rest from our works as God did from His, though His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

In one sense, we are growing into these things, still working it out. But God has already made us complete in Christ. We just need to get it all into our minds and lives.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you are looking for gage for sin, you miss the point of Christianity completely.

I'm not. It's what I object to. Sin is sin is sin, and sin kills.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I know, I quote the Bible you twist the meaning or explain it away....Try that with Christ on Judgment Day.

You bring up interesting things, but these comments make me disinclined to answer.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just what I said....you think you will unconscienced in hell?
Rebirth is a spiritual rebirth...
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My understanding is that the resurrection to condemnation is not those who are alive in Christ:

Revelation 20:12 KJV
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

I'm not saying anything against living up to your responsibilities. But we do have different ideas of what those are.

And that summarizes the entire 190 page thread.

 

[Grailhunter]

You bring up interesting things, but these comments make me disinclined to answer.

Much love!

Are scriptures just "interesting things" to you....They are real and punishments are real.

 

[Wrangler]

And in the case of keeping believing in Jesus Christ? What evidence?

Moving the goalposts. You don't want to accept answers when they do not conform to your doctrine. There is nothing in the Bible that says believe once and you are all set. Lip service will not get you past the gates of heaven.

There are many verses that say keep believing to the end. Is that enough evidence for you?

We have a responsibility to act when we become believers. Jesus says it over and over again. We are salt, but will be thrown away if we lose flavor. We are the vine but will be thrown into the fire if we do not produce fruit. Calling him Lord is insufficient but only those that ACT, who actually do the will of the Father will go to heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not. It's what I object to. Sin is sin is sin, and sin kills.

Much love!

You do not understand, that is the problem...
Sins can be forgiven...it is the intent to go on sinning that will land you in hell.
You propose a doctrine of confusion and we know where that comes from.
Muddy the water...everything has a gray meaning, why even try.
That is not the Bible or Christianity.

 

[Tong2020]

Grailhunter said: ↑
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,...agreed

No. If I lived in the biblical era...maybe. As a Christian in modern times....the Law has nothing to do with me. I have never lived under the Law...again I am not a Jew and never have been.

I'd agree that we as gentiles have never been under the Mosaic Law, we are still under the law of our conscience, the law that was written on our hearts, our internal knowledge of right and wrong. And that we will be judged according to that, unless we are forgiven in Christ.

Much love!

The Mosaic law or Law of Moses or simply the Law, was a written code, given by God to His covenant people, the children of Israel, through Moses. It was a covenant Law. So those who are in covenant with God whose mediator was Moses are them who are under the Mosaic Law. And those who break the law will be judged by that Law. Needless to say, they are sinners.

Now, those who are not in that covenant with God, the Gentiles, they also are sinners, though are not judged by the Mosaic Law. According to Romans 2, the Gentiles who do not have the Law of Moses, when by nature do the things in the Law, these, although not having the Law, are a law to themselves. And so, they are under that law. And that law, basically are what are in the Law of Moses. In other words, all men are under the Law.

Tong
R2939

 

[Grailhunter]

My understanding is that the resurrection to condemnation is not those who are alive in Christ:

The problem is, that the Bible does not say that....and no matter what you do, you cannot make it say that.

 

[Wrangler]

And in the case of ...

And in the case of my analogy, what does not seem applicable to you?

The analogy I use is that we are all drowning. Jesus is the Savior and throws us a life preserver and we can have total trust and faith in him always providing this means of our survival. However, the burden is always on us to actually receive the life preserver. And it is not merely the initial holding on to the life preserver that matters. What matters is constantly holding onto the gift of salvation. Otherwise, we risk our survival with every release of the gift, e.g., turning our back on him.

Supposing otherwise is an unrealistic assessment of our predicament.

 

[Tong2020]

Then you will believe this . . .

Romans 8:29 KJV
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Will God's predestination stand? Does it work?

Much love!

Definitely! What God had predestined will certainly be accomplished. And that means nothing could change that, at least according to my knowledge of God’s nature and character.

Now of course this is not so with those who were not foreknown by God. So, if one thinks that he can change that, he does not believe that he is among those foreknown by God.

Tong
R2940

 

[Tong2020]

I trust no further analysis is necessary but to show how Tong and marks twist what Ferris has said. Such Appeals to Strawman shows the weakness of your position.

The analogy I use is that we are all drowning. Jesus is the Savior and throws us a life preserver and we can have total trust and faith in him always providing this means of our survival. However, the burden is always on us to actually receive the life preserver. And it is not merely the initial holding on to the life preserver that matters. What matters is constantly holding onto the gift of salvation. Otherwise, we risk our survival with every release of the gift, e.g., turning our back on him.

Supposing otherwise is an unrealistic assessment of our predicament.

Twist? How so? Not so. You have to know where this discussion between me and Ferris is coming from. It’s coming from his misuse of the passage in Matthew 18, the parable of the unforgiving servant.

Here’s a question for you. When you repented and believed and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and when you called on the name of the Lord to forgive your sins, do you believe God forgave your sins or not at that time? And during that time that you asked for forgiveness, what knowledge do you have regarding the forgiveness of your sins? That it is not absolute forgiveness? And when you were forgiven at that time, do you believe that God remembers no more those sins of yours or does He keep them in remembrance just in case?

Tong
R2941

 

[Wrangler]

Twist? How so? Not so. You have to know where this discussion between me and Ferris is coming from.

I know full well where the discussion between you and Ferris is coming from. I showed it plainly from the posts. You are twisting what he is saying by pretending he said there is no conditions to forgiveness - then mocked him for it.

Friend, this is not the Spirit of truth and grace.

 

[Tong2020]

I'm not sure why this is a thing?

When we say "Christian", which word does appear in the Bible, don't we mean to use the word seriously? That is, if we say, Christian, we're talking about someone that IS one, right?

So "genuine" would be implied.

Saying "genuine" Christian, what's the issue?

Either someone is, or they are not, right?

Much love!

I don’t think it is. I’d say genuineness is presumed rather than implied. For there are false brethren, that is, false Christians.

That is why I use adjectives to make myself clear as to who I am referring to.

Tong
R2942

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The question isn’t about judgment. I was just asking if you believe there are false brethren among the Christians. The scriptures speaks of such. Do you believe or you do not?

My answer was accurate.
The Bibles talks about those that believed incorrectly.
The Bible talks about addressing those that continue to sin.
The old timers use to speak of the luke-warm Christians.
Those that believe in new heresies like Calvinism and OSAS can be looked at as false brethren.
I can say they preach the doctrines of devils...but I cannot say they are not Christians.
Above my paygrade. So my answer was accurate.

1st John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1st Timothy 1:3
Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines,

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

How could you say your answer was accurate when your answer was “That decision of judgment is above our paygrade.”? Only you could understand what you meant by that. Are you having a discussion with yourself or with me? Just say so, so I won’t bother responding to such empty and meaningless posts, at least for me. They may carry with it tons of meanings for you, but not for me.

<<<The Bibles talks about those that believed incorrectly.>>>

I am not asking about that. Again, I was asking if you believe there are false brethren among the Christians. Do you believe or you do not?

Now if that simple question is really above your pay grade, I think I am inlined to believe it is as you say.

But let me help you with that, in my own little way. Consider the scriptures:

Galatians 2:4
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Now, is the question still above your pay grade?

Tong
R2943

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Scriptures said He was made alive. If you can’t understand that or you just like to use another term? Scriptures said, He was put to death, but He was made alive.

The resurrection is a very significant event...Are we going to understand how He came back and exactly what His body was? NO.
Christ resurrected...
He told Mary Magdalene to proclaim that event and she went and found the Apostles that were hiding...that had abandoned Christ, that He had risen...And the did not believe her. There lack of faith so deep that when he presented Himself before them, that their first thought was that He was a ghost....not believing in the resurrection.

And my point is only that Christ was made alive, raised to life from the dead. And that we, the elect of God were likewise made alive together with Christ. And that was a done deed. It can’t be undone, just as the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ can’t be undone.

Tong
R2944

 

[Tong2020]

What I said was true.

What part?

Tong
R2945

 

[JunChosen]

I believe in it. Just not in Calvin's definition of those things. I believe what the Bible says those things are.

So tell me. What is the difference of Calvin's definition of "predestination/elect" as opposed to the definition of Scripture?

I believe that Jesus indwells me and that it is through him that I can endure and believe to the very end and live a holy life. I sure can't do that by myself!

If you can't do it therefore, it is Jesus ALONE who indwells a believer can endure and believe to the very end and live a holy life, correct?

No one can trust God except that God first give them the evidence of the gospel through the gift of faith, through which they can then trust God for salvation, if they want to do that. Most people don't, and so they cast the word of faith about the gospel from their hearts. There are a few, though, who will retain the word of faith they heard, and retain it all the way to the end, and are saved.

Not exactly. Yes many are called but "few" are chosen. In other words, in eternity past and before the foundation of the world, God the Father predestined those whom He wanted saved. Ephesians 1:4-6.

Believe and faith are verb and noun forms of the same word. There is no difference in the idea being expresses. I believe you, I have belief in you, or, I have faith in you. Both come from the same Greek root.

To trust, and to have trust. Like that.

Much love!

But you forget Romans 3:10-11.

To God Be The Glory