Once Saved Always Saved

[FHII]

I wish I was talented enough to get my point across on this topic of predestination. If you ask what must be done to be saved, you will get alot of answers, and many will have Biblical backing. But one of the answers is in Matthew 10:22. He that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Therefore, while I believe God has foreknowledge and does actually foreordain and predestinates, he never does tell who endures. Knowing that God has chosen -- even before the foundations of the world -- doesn't help us. We still have to run the race set before us. With that in mind, there is no gloating or pride or assurance. We must still maintain and grow in faith.

 

[Charlie24]

I wish I was talented enough to get my point across on this topic of predestination. If you ask what must be done to be saved, you will get alot of answers, and many will have Biblical backing. But one of the answers is in Matthew 10:22. He that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Therefore, while I believe God has foreknowledge and does actually foreordain and predestinates, he never does tell who endures. Knowing that God has chosen -- even before the foundations of the world -- doesn't help us. We still have to run the race set before us. With that in mind, there is no gloating or pride or assurance. We must still maintain and grow in faith.

I wish I was talented enough to get my point across on this topic of predestination. If you ask what must be done to be saved, you will get alot of answers, and many will have Biblical backing. But one of the answers is in Matthew 10:22. He that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Therefore, while I believe God has foreknowledge and does actually foreordain and predestinates, he never does tell who endures. Knowing that God has chosen -- even before the foundations of the world -- doesn't help us. We still have to run the race set before us. With that in mind, there is no gloating or pride or assurance. We must still maintain and grow in faith.

This thread is not about predestination and that is the problem you don't understand this thread!

Start a thread on predestination and I will be happy to join you in conversation! I've been wanting to talk in detail about that anyway!

 

[marks]

This thread is not about those folks, it's about those "who were made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and walked away no longer believing Jesus is the Christ!

We need to understand what that means to be "partakers of the Holy Spirit", and why this was written, instead of "partakers of Christ", as is said elsewhere in Hebrews.

It's a similar question as asking who can commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit considering that the warning was given for calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit as He worked through Jesus to perform signs and wonders, miracles and healings. He's not here in the world doing that today, so, if we look at "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in keeping with the Scripture, how would it occur?

God teaches us in Hebrews that true salvation is being made a "partaker of Christ". Here He says, "partaker of the Holy Spirit". Why is that?

Much love!

 

[FHII]

I seriously do

Well that answer did not address any of the questions or comments I put forth.

This thread is not about those folks, it's about those "who were made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and walked away no longer believing Jesus is the Christ!

Now if you can't see that, then we are back at the truth thing.

Oh ok. Then we are back to a couple of scriptures I brought up in the beginning, especially to one from 1 John where he said the were not of us, because if they were of us they would have continued with us! [Paraphrasing]

But it is also like Jesus said when he said you can prophesy, cast out devils, call him Lord and do many works in his name and he NEVER knew you.

And I could go on, but are these things not the truth? John and Jesus said them. Are they wrong or did I misunderstand what they plainly said?

 

[Charlie24]

We need to understand what that means to be "partakers of the Holy Spirit", and why this was written, instead of "partakers of Christ", as is said elsewhere in Hebrews.

It's a similar question as asking who can commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit considering that the warning was given for calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit as He worked through Jesus to perform signs and wonders, miracles and healings. He's not here in the world doing that today, so, if we look at "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in keeping with the Scripture, how would it occur?

God teaches us in Hebrews that true salvation is being made a "partaker of Christ". Here He says, "partaker of the Holy Spirit". Why is that?

Much love!

I think it's rather simple. When we believe in Christ, accepting Him as our Saviour, we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

When we stop believing in what saved us as in Heb. 6 and 10, the indwelling Holy Spirit has been humiliated, and has no choice but to leave.

As I have said before a couple of times, this is a completely different situation than that of a backslider who still believes in Christ but has lost his way.

 

[FHII]

This thread is not about predestination and that is the problem you don't understand this thread!

Start a thread on predestination and I will be happy to join you in conversation! I've been wanting to talk in detail about that anyway!

Once saved, always saved is not about predestination?!?! Really? Then what is it about?

See, I cringe every time OSAS is talked about because people ignorantly link it to John Calvin. Yet, they fail to realize it wasn't his theory! He wrote 3 chapters about predestination (out of hundreds, maybe even thousands) which were very good and followers of his came up with the theory, even though he said plenty of things that can counter it. For example, he is the earliest source of someone saying grace is not a license to sin. Yes, I know... Its mind blowing, ain't it?

Predestination and OSAS are tied together. The latter is based on the truth of the former. If you are predestinated, nothing can stop the will and decree of God. If predestination doesn't exist, neither can OSAS. If we were not saved before the foundations of the world, predestination doesn't exist.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is speaking of "the willful sin" which refers to transferring one's faith to other than Christ.

"After we have received the knowledge of truth" speaks of salvation in Christ.

"There remains no more sacrifice for sins" is referring to the sacrifice of Christ that cleanses from all sin.

You no longer have faith in Christ and now there is no more sacrifice for your sins!

Willful sins are sins that can result out of unbelief and include uncleanness, fornication, and lasciviousness (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Remember the story of the prodigal son? He walked away but he didn't stop being his father's son. And when he came home his father was the first to welcome him, wrap a cloak around him and put a ring on his finger and provide a feast for him.

This is our wonderful loving God. Once we are in his family we are in for eternity. We cannot be unborn.

The prodigal son was said to be both dead and lost while he was away from his father (Luke 15:24, Luke 15:32).

Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn.

No; but you can die spiritually (James 1:14-16).

It's a similar question as asking who can commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit considering that the warning was given for calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit as He worked through Jesus to perform signs and wonders, miracles and healings. He's not here in the world doing that today, so, if we look at "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in keeping with the Scripture, how would it occur?

The Holy Spirit does not have to only be in Christ for it to be blasphemy of the Spirit to call Him an unclean spirit. Someone can blaspheme the Holy Spirit as He dwells within a believer, also.

 

[amigo de christo]

Willful sin refers to more than just unbelief...

What this is saying is that those who engage in willful sin do so as the result of unbelief.

But it can consist of such things as uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness.

We must repent of sin.

what most folks dont understand is that sin can harden a heart .
Its why paul warned . exhort one another daily lest any become hardened by the deceitfulness of sin .

 

[amigo de christo]

my simple advice , due to i seen the name calvin , is dont follow that man .
Follow JESUS and learn those bibles well .
I know a sister on this site , and she too refuses calvin . Very good sister .

 

[Charlie24]

Willful sins are sins that can result out of unbelief and include uncleanness, fornication, and lasciviousness (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).



The prodigal son was said to be both dead and lost while he was away from his father (Luke 15:24, Luke 15:32).



No; but you can die spiritually (James 1:14-16).



The Holy Spirit does not have to only be in Christ for it to be blasphemy of the Spirit to call Him an unclean spirit. Someone can blaspheme the Holy Spirit as He dwells within a believer, also.

Most sin is willful sin, but that is not what the author is speaking of! Leading up to Heb. 10:26, it is clear he is speaking of faith!

vs. 22, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith....

vs.23, let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering......

It is clear he is speaking of keeping the faith in Christ, and at vs. 26 and on, he tells us why, we can lose it all by losing faith.

 

[amigo de christo]

Most sin is willful sin, but that is not what the author is speaking of! Leading up to Heb. 10:26, it is clear he is speaking of faith!

vs. 22, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith....

vs.23, let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering......

It is clear he is speaking of keeping the faith in Christ, and at vs. 26 and on, he tells us why, we can lose it all by losing faith.

Correct my friend . But what most dont know is
faith entails being hearers and doers of HIS WORD .
Here is a friendly reminder my friend on how one can deny the faith as well .
If one gives not to his own , specially to those of his own household he has denied THE FAITH and is WORSE than an infidel .
ITS all about having FAITH IN JESUS . If our faith is truly in HIM we would be hearers and doers of the word .
Now let the KING be praised . Folks dont realize also that sin can harden a heart .
Thus let us exhort one another daily in the pure and holy doctrine of our Lord , lest any does become hardened through
the deceitfulness of sin .

 

[justbyfaith]

Most sin is willful sin, but that is not what the author is speaking of! Leading up to Heb. 10:26, it is clear he is speaking of faith!

vs. 22, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith....

vs.23, let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering......

It is clear he is speaking of keeping the faith in Christ, and at vs. 26 and on, he tells us why, we can lose it all by losing faith.

It is definitely true that whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

However, there are other definitions for sin in the Bible (Romans 8:4, James 4:17, 1 John 3:4) and they fall under the category of what is spoken of in the passage in question, if they are done willfully, in deliberate rebellion against the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

 

[amigo de christo]

Proof of a hardned heart by result of entertaining sin .
Say a person watches porn and though they get convicted , they keep on watching it ,
later they will find those who say its okay , or GOD understands . And they will no longer even try and cease it .
I seen this with gays as well . They get convicted , yet wont stop and then finally find a church
that accepts it and they now think all is well . THEY SIN and continue in sin .
Same with any other hardened heart . It will find a church that accepts its sin or doesnt preach against it
and find their home right there . I Seen it happen . I sure have .
SIN is deadly and if one errs repentance must be made . Cause it will lead one to a hardened heart and thus
to another sin accepting version of jesus . WHICH MY FRIENDS that AINT JESUS .

 

[Charlie24]

It is definitely true that whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

However, there are other definitions for sin in the Bible (Romans 8:4, James 4:17, 1 John 3:4) and they fall under the category of what is spoken of in the passage in question, if they are done willfully, in deliberate rebellion against the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

It's ok if you don't believe what I have explained! When you get along far enough in your studies, it will be the light bulb effect.

It will become plain as day, but until then, it's ok! Just keep at it, our studies are not in vain, He will deliver if we desire His truth with all our heart.

 

[Charlie24]

Once saved, always saved is not about predestination?!?! Really? Then what is it about?

See, I cringe every time OSAS is talked about because people ignorantly link it to John Calvin. Yet, they fail to realize it wasn't his theory! He wrote 3 chapters about predestination (out of hundreds, maybe even thousands) which were very good and followers of his came up with the theory, even though he said plenty of things that can counter it. For example, he is the earliest source of someone saying grace is not a license to sin. Yes, I know... Its mind blowing, ain't it?

Predestination and OSAS are tied together. The latter is based on the truth of the former. If you are predestinated, nothing can stop the will and decree of God. If predestination doesn't exist, neither can OSAS. If we were not saved before the foundations of the world, predestination doesn't exist.

OSAS is a by product of Calvinism, specifically predestination. When predestination is discussed, OSAS doesn't come in the conversation unless someone takes away from the conversation to do it.

The same is true visa versa, predestination is a vast subject that doesn't need the sidetracking, just as OSAS doesn't need predestination to sidetrack.

But if you are a Calvinist, or share the predestination belief, you can't help but bring it into the conversation, but I prefer it be a separate thread. Everything becomes foggy when this is done together, it shouldn't be that way.

 

[justbyfaith]

It's ok if you don't believe what I have explained! When you get along far enough in your studies, it will be the light bulb effect.

It will become plain as day, but until then, it's ok! Just keep at it, our studies are not in vain, He will deliver if we desire His truth with all our heart.

I think that if you define sin in Hebrews 10:26-31 as unbelief alone, you may be prone to commit willful sins that are not defined primarily as unbelief; while they will stem out of unbelief: and, thinking that the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will avail for you even if you commit that willful sin, you just might commit that willful sin; and because there is no sacrifice for sins remaining (including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross; for Hebrews 10:12 is in the immediate context), you will be found without forgiveness because there is no sacrifice for sins remaining when you commit that willful sin.

While Amos 3:2 and Hebrews 12:5-11, esp. Hebrews 12:6, will apply and you will be punished for what you did (see also Colossians 3:25) accordingly.

If anyone knew his master's will and did things deserving of stripes, he will receive many stripes. If anyone did not know his master's will and did things deserving of stripes, he will be beaten with few.

Luke 12:47-48; Amos 3:2, Hebrews 12:6.

 

[Renniks]

with:

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Matthew 7:23 KJV
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew

Neither of these prove people are predestined.
The first one doesn't say they were never of us, and the second is about people who have a fake faith. Nothing to do with OSAS...

 

[Charlie24]

I think that if you define sin in Hebrews 10:26-31 as unbelief alone, you may be prone to commit willful sins that are not defined primarily as unbelief; while they will stem out of unbelief: and, thinking that the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will avail for you even if you commit that willful sin, you just might commit that willful sin; and because there is no sacrifice for sins remaining (including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross; for Hebrews 10:12 is in the immediate context), you will be found without forgiveness because there is no sacrifice for sins remaining when you commit that willful sin.

While Amos 3:2 and Hebrews 12:5-11, esp. Hebrews 12:6, will apply and you will be punished for what you did (see also Colossians 3:25) accordingly.

If anyone knew his master's will and did things deserving of stripes, he will receive many stripes. If anyone did not know his master's will and did things deserving of stripes, he will be beaten with few.

Luke 12:47-48; Amos 3:2, Hebrews 12:6.

You must understand the difference between a blasphemer and a backslider. I have mentioned that several times here in this thread.

The author is not speaking of sin as the reason we can no longer repent, he is speaking of "the willful sin" as the reason.

That is plainly our faith, when one does as the Jews did when turning from Christ after salvation and going back to temple worship.

They have committed the "willful sin" of rejecting Christ after salvation and now the Holy Spirit has to leave.

But I'm not going to argue this as it is a waste of time until you find it for yourself. I think you will if you keep at it, as I have said before, I believe you have a heart for God, and that's what it takes to find His truth.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

First off... Hebrews 10:26 is talking about forsaking the assembling. People hate that, but there is a reason people quote the 26th verse but omit the 25th verse.

And there is a reason people do the exact opposite. And the verse is speaking of willful sin of any kind.

Second, just because you were a partaker of the Holy Spirit and exposed to the truth it doesn't mean you are a Child of God

It most certainly does! For the Holy Spirit cannot be given to those disobedient to Christ:

Acts 5:32
...the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn

The more important thing you should consider is that you cannot be born again the third time! There’s no more sacrifice for sins for those who defile the free gift of a new life in Christ.

Disobedience is unbelief in practice.

Disobedience is disobedience, and unbelief is unbelief. If there’s scriptures to support your assertion please provide it (I cannot think of any at the moment).

Most sin is willful sin

Only for those who know the law.

Romans 7:7
...I had not known sin, but by the law

And these should beware of this scripture:

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

[101G]

Heb. 10:26-29
"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Correct, because there is no more sacrifice for sins. the sacrifice has been made, to restore one, is.... 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

see Adam and Eve willfully sinned in the garden, when God, JESUS, the Ordinal First said "Don't Eat", and they willfully did. and what did God do? he allowed them to "Confess" their sins which they did not do, listen, Genesis 3:10 "And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." Genesis 3:11 "And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"
Genesis 3:12 "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

see if Adam would have confessed his sin. it would have been all over, Pardise restored, (at least then). thank God, the Lord Jesus for his GRACE, and his MERCY, which he has never changed from, yesterday, today, and for ever more..... BINGO... so that, Hebrews 10:26, you can put that scripture in your pocket, it not used that way anymore. now if you willfully sin, listen, Hebrews 12:5 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:"
Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
Hebrews 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"
Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." (WE SUGGEST YOU RE-READ THAT VERSE).
Hebrews 12:9 "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"
Hebrews 12:10 "For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness."
Hebrews 12:11 "Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."

God, the Lord Jesus, don't cook the books, he balance them on this side......

NOW WE SUGGEST YOU FINISH READING THE REST OF THE CHAPTER 12 of Hebrews. as a matter of Fact read the whole book in dealing with sin. taking one scripture out of context, is just like the pharisees want to keep the yoke of the Law around one's neck when our Lord has made us free.
yes, even in freedom there comes responsibility, and consequences, just read chapter 12 again.

but we have an advocate, (1 John 2:1), and on top of that, READ 1 Peter 4:8, and come boldly to the throne of Mercy.` and lets put another layer on, "there is only one unforgivable sin... so, it's just ridiculous how people try to put others in bondage. THANK GOD FOR REPENTANCE, AND CONFESSION. I can say one thing, some may put down the Roman catholic down for a lot of things, (some I agree with), but at least they got .... "CONFESSION" right.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"