Once Saved Always Saved

[Charlie24]

While I don't think this is what this passage is speaking of, just the same, who is it that is born again, born from God, filled with the Spirit of Christ, who then chooses to stop believing in Christ? Isn't this hypothetical? "Imagine if there were someone who was united in the Spirit with God, who then rejects God." I don't see that taught in the Bible. What I do see is just the opposite.



Are you remembering that Judas was sent out performing miracles, healings, preaching the Gospel? This did not assure his salvation.



As a Jew living under the Law, once you learned about Jesus, you couldn't just go back and sacrifice an animal as if Jesus' blood were no better than that.

As gentiles, and now, post-temple and post Levitical priesthood, there are no sacrifices period.

Much love!

I tell you what, you see it your way and I'll see it mine! This type argument will go nowhere!

 

[Charlie24]

Where can I find that in the Bible? I can't think of the passage.

It's obvious from the context, but who pays attention to that?

 

[marks]

I tell you what, you see it your way and I'll see it mine! This type argument will go nowhere!

That's fine! I hope you don't mind should I comment . . .

Personally, I think we need to keep all the passages in context, and sort out what is Scriptural and what is not.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's obvious from the context, but who pays attention to that?

I do.

But what's 'obvious' is different than what is 'stated', don't you think? I mean, what is 'obvious' to you may not be obvious to someone else.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

I do.

But what's 'obvious' is different than what is 'stated', don't you think? I mean, what is 'obvious' to you may not be obvious to someone else.

Much love!

I do.

But what's 'obvious' is different than what is 'stated', don't you think? I mean, what is 'obvious' to you may not be obvious to someone else.

Much love!

What I think is that if you disagree you're going to disagree and nothing can change that!

 

[marks]

What I think is that if you disagree you're going to disagree and nothing can change that!

OK.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What I think is that if you disagree you're going to disagree and nothing can change that!

Please don't feel obligated on my account to reply to my posts if you don't wish to.

Much love!

 

[friend of]

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ

That's what I like to hear! Praise God for Luke 15. Praise God for His immeasurable mercy, grace and patience towards His children.

 

[friend of]

this is saying is that those who engage in willful sin do so as the result of unbelief

Disobedience is unbelief in practice.

 

[FHII]

So you were made a partaker of the Holy Spirit but you are not saved.

Gonna have to pedal that somewhere else!

Hebrews 10:19-25 tells us to hold on to our profession of faith, vs. 23, and then the importance of gathering to together, it's about faith. Then in vs. 26-31 he tells us why this important, we could lose our faith.

You are misguided on this my friend!

No, I am not. You can hear truth, parrot it and walk according to it for some time and it STILL not be in you. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Truth. Thus, being a partaker of the Holy Spirit does not necessarily mean you are all in and of the Spirit.

I picked the verses I quoted with great care. Jesus said you can prophey in his name, cast out devils in his name and do many wonderful works in his name, and he still says, "I NEVER knew you!"

So if you want to try to belittle me and say I am "pedalling" something... No! I have said the Truth!

 

[Charlie24]

No, I am not. You can hear truth, parrot it and walk according to it for some time and it STILL not be in you. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Truth. Thus, being a partaker of the Holy Spirit does not necessarily mean you are all in and of the Spirit.

I picked the verses I quoted with great care. Jesus said you can prophey in his name, cast out devils in his name and do many wonderful works in his name, and he still says, "I NEVER knew you!"

So if you want to try to belittle me and say I am "pedalling" something... No! I have said the Truth!

Well, we certainly disagree on what truth is! But that's nothing new on forums.

 

[Enoch111]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

What if those people were not even saved to begin with? Only God knows the hearts of men. But the Bible is very clear. We are justified by grace through faith, and eternal life is God's gift to the ones who believe.

There are instances of the saints of God who sinned but did not lose their salvation. Some may have even died prematurely but that still did not translate in to loss of salvation.

 

[FHII]

Well, we certainly disagree on what truth is! But that's nothing new on forums.

To the notion that we disagree on what truth is, I have no doubt that is true. However we also seem to disagree on the receiving of truth. I believe people can be told the truth, and they can even say they believe it. But in the long run, they don't. They say they do, but never live by it, and never fully believed it. Jesus even talked about such in his parables about stony and shallow ground.

How anyone could believe differently is a mystery to me. I am willing to stand before God and say, "Lord, I believe someone can be told the truth about you and either reject it, or pretend to accept it, but in reality they don't truly believe it!"

Now, how about you?

 

[Charlie24]

What if those people were not even saved to begin with? Only God knows the hearts of men. But the Bible is very clear. We are justified by grace through faith, and eternal life is God's gift to the ones who believe.

There are instances of the saints of God who sinned but did not lose their salvation. Some may have even died prematurely but that still did not translate in to loss of salvation.

Faith in Christ is how man is justified, I gather that you agree with that.

But when man no longer has faith in Christ, as in Heb., for whatever reason he has decided he no longer believes in Christ, the Holy Spirit has no choice but to pull out.

If a person is saved but becomes rebellious by sinning, but has NOT out right denied Christ, he is backslidden and not a blasphemer as in Heb. As you said, the Lord may cut this persons life short and take him on home early.

 

[Charlie24]

To the notion that we disagree on what truth is, I have no doubt that is true. However we also seem to disagree on the receiving of truth. I believe people can be told the truth, and they can even say they believe it. But in the long run, they don't. They say they do, but never live by it, and never fully believed it. Jesus even talked about such in his parables about stony and shallow ground.

How anyone could believe differently is a mystery to me. I am willing to stand before God and say, "Lord, I believe someone can be told the truth about you and either reject it, or pretend to accept it, but in reality they don't truly believe it!"

Now, how about you?

We could argue about who has the truth all day long! You hold to what you see as truth and I will hold on to mine, how about that?

 

[FHII]

What if those people were not even saved to begin with? Only God knows the hearts of men. But the Bible is very clear. We are justified by grace through faith, and eternal life is God's gift to the ones who believe.

Yes, that's what I am getting at! I just take it a step further and believe what's in a man's heart is God's will.

There are instances of the saints of God who sinned but did not lose their salvation. Some may have even died prematurely but that still did not translate in to loss of salvation.

Instances?!?! ALL have sinned and fall short! Maybe you can argue about Enoch or Elijah or Jesus... I would argue differently (especially about the former two).

 

[Wrangler]

This topic is hamstrung by an assumption that both sides make, i.e. that a person is saved immediately after a confession of belief. If this isn't true, then the debate is moot.

We are saved the moment we accept the Savior. Sanctification is the process that may never end.

 

[FHII]

We could argue about who has the truth all day long! You hold to what you see as truth and I will hold on to mine, how about that?

No. How about you address the real point. I am not agruing about whether you have truth or I have truth. I am stating some people can hear the truth and reject it while still pretending to accept it. I am saying they may believe they have accepted it but they never follow it, and that is the rejection.

Its like Jesus said, " if you say you love me and keep not my sayings, you are a liar, and the truth is not in you!".

Or... Am I wrong?

 

[Wrangler]

Addressing the OP, we do not agree with that assessment. for John 14:16, and other scriptures clearly states the obvious. Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." God is not an Indian giver, and he maks no mistakes.

I don't know who 'we' is but no one is saying the gift of salvation has been taken back by God. Abandoned by the one who may have previously had it, is more accurate.

 

[Charlie24]

No. How about you address the real point. I am not agruing about whether you have truth or I have truth. I am stating some people can hear the truth and reject it while still pretending to accept it. I am saying they may believe they have accepted it but they never follow it, and that is the rejection.

Its like Jesus said, " if you say you love me and keep not my sayings, you are a liar, and the truth is not in you!".

Or... Am I wrong?

I seriously do

No. How about you address the real point. I am not agruing about whether you have truth or I have truth. I am stating some people can hear the truth and reject it while still pretending to accept it. I am saying they may believe they have accepted it but they never follow it, and that is the rejection.

Its like Jesus said, " if you say you love me and keep not my sayings, you are a liar, and the truth is not in you!".

Or... Am I wrong?

This thread is not about those folks, it's about those "who were made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and walked away no longer believing Jesus is the Christ!

Now if you can't see that, then we are back at the truth thing.