Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Taken]

I wonder why you won’t disclose where you learned your writing style.

Already have. From teaching audibly DEAF children.

 

[Titus]

There is no such thing as faith only

you don’t CLAIM you trust someone then NEVER do what they ask

that’s fraudulent faith or mere belief. Which never saved anyone

I agree, there is no faith only salvation. So why are you in a religion that teaches salvation by faith and no works to Gods commandments to be saved?

 

[ScottA]

I believe the Substitutionary Atonement, but it only applies if we abide by the terms of the contract.
For example: While it is true that Christ is the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood (Romans 3:25), it is also equally true that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to not only believe in the blood of Jesus, but you also have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to continue to be applied to your life as you live out your faith. It’s not a one and your done kind of thing as OSAS falsely teaches.

Your version of the exchange makes it appear like Christ does not see our sin when we do sin. That’s not the kind of exchange that has happened here. That would be nonsense.

You are out of context. That was what was preached to those of that evil generation who could loose what they had not fully attained.

To the contrary, the conversion of the Holy Spirit--after that evil generation--is the death of those who sin and the life of those who live in Christ, which does not come over the remainder of one's life (until the end of the flesh), but in the twinkling of an eye. Surely you have read of the foreshadowing of these events, that those who did not believe died in the desert and only the following generations crossed over and came to victory with a shout.

 

[Titus]

If I misrepresented you, I apologize.
That is never my intention.

IF I had said that you can repeat what I said I believe.
I didn’t say that, thus you are speaking FOR ME, which is accredited to you, not me.

Is there works involved for a lost sinner to be saved?

 

[ScottA]

Jesus said it is written many times to show that He was referring to Scripture. Jesus is said to be our example. The Bible is our guide for all matters of faith and practice. If you are not providing actual verse number references, then you are not helping others to see your position on the Bible. Okay, maybe I should take that back. Keep doing what your doing. I think that’s great. Don’t share verse citations with others because that will not help to convince them of your unbiblical view of OSAS in the Bible. For I don’t want you to convince any person of OSAS. Thank you for not being convincing of your position on OSAS. Just keep saying it is a mystery. Just keep holding all the cards.

Do not forget that Jesus also said that His sheep hear His voice. Which is to say, that it is now less a matter of what is written on tablets as it was then, and more a matter of who has the Holy Spirit whom He sent for just such a purpose. His example as you put it, was not to stay in that part of what He first taught to those of that time, but to "follow" and to act according to what He more importantly taught and arranged for the future by His appointment...which began to come upon men at Pentecost. As it is written: “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Which things are of God, not that weak men should not understand, but that only those who are His might hear, as a testimony for or against them before the Judgement.

 

[Taken]

You cannot show me a single verse of Scripture that says Gentiles are members of the new covenant.

A covenant IS a Promise Given of God TO particular men and the men AGREE to Abide by Gods Word TO receive What God Promised.

In the OT, men were Promised Forgiveness of their SINS, by making a SIN OFFERING, of animal BLOOD, (according to Gods Order and Way)
Hebrews and Tribesmen were GIVEN that Promise and Agreed to that Promise.

In the NT, men are Promised Forgiveness of their SINS, by ACCEPTING Jesus’ BLOOD “sin Offering” ( according to Gods Order and Way)
ALL men Hebrews, tribesmen, Gentiles were GIVEN that Promise and those that AGREE, shall receive the Promise Given OF God, Through Jesus, BY the Holy Spirit.

Gentiles INCLUSION, was expressly, a SERVICE given and agreed to be accomplished BY Jesus’ Choosing His Servant (Saul/Paul), and Jesus’ Servant (Saul/Paul’s) Agreement to perform the Service.

Luke 22:20
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Matt 12:
[18] Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

You quoted 3 verses that say nothing about a covenant of any kind.[/QUOTE]

IF you require the wisdom of a toddler, to comprehend the understanding of Covenant, get a toddler Bible.

IF you have the wisdom of an adult, look, read, learn what a Covenant is and you should be able recognize WHEN a Covenant is being spoken of IN Scripture, without the toddler reminder....of repeatedly reading...
Covenant, covenant, covenant.....

IF you are over 5 and still stumbling....get a teens student Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

This words does appear in the King James Bible quite frequently.

Morning!
It is a long story...as to how much misery and how many false beliefs that that man-made word has caused.
Yes it is in the King James Version of the Bible.....No it is not in the scriptures......One of many false beliefs that the King James Version has caused.

 

[Happy Trails]

I showed you I am not a Jew and gentiles are part of gods plan too

believe what you will. You will only see what you want

Whoa! Talk about confession through projection!

Is Jesus the Savior of the whole world? Then everyone is saved! That is the logic you are employing. Yes. God is the God of the Jews and of anyone else who wants to join the Jews. The Gentiles are invited to be grafted into Israel. They are not invited to start their own religion.

Galatians 3:28 says nothing about Gentiles. It says "Jews" and "Greeks." "Greeks" is a term used for Hellenized Jews.

Ephesians 2 explains that Gentiles who call on Jesus are no longer Gentiles, but fellow citizens with the saints of Israel.

Gentiles are the nations. National identity is based on the god that the nation worships. Only Israel worships the Elohim of Israel. The Moabites, the Ammonites, the Canaanites and all the other nations had THEIR gods. Israel has its Elohim.

A person joins Israel, or remains a heathen. That's how it works.

Romans 2
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? If a non-Jew obeys the Torah, he is considered a Jew.

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? If a former Gentile obeys the Law, he has the right to judge a Jew that violates it.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Being circumcised in the flesh is not what matters.

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. What matters is the circumcision of the heart. God will praise the one who circumcises his heart and obeys the Torah.

Deuteronomy 10:16, Deuteronomy 30:6, Jeremiah 4:4

 

[Grailhunter]

Any historical document supporting your claims?

Do you want me recommend a history book on the Roman Empire or Christianity?

 

[ScottA]

Uh, no you haven’t. You have not even offered any verses to me that even sound like OSAS. Others here have offered verses that actually sound like OSAS but when we compare it to the context or other verses in the Bible, they are obviously taking them out of context to the chapter or the rest of the Bible. Take for example John 10:28. You did not mention this popular verse that sounds like OSAS (at first glance). Most OSASers love to quote this one, but this easily refuted if they were to read the verse above it (verse 27). The kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of His hand are the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. Following Jesus is not forced upon you. You have to choose to abide in the Lord and the good work He wants to do through you.

Your rejection of the scriptures I have given by word and by the Spirit, is not the measure of what I have done or not...but rather what you have and have not heard.

Welcome to the order of the day. So far you are not fairing well at all.

But that I might be of some help to you--do you not know that the house has been swept clean only to be filled with what is seven times more wicked than before? Luke 11:24-26

 

[Titus]

James is using the term "justified" in the sense of being "shown to be righteous." One shows the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Danthemailman, give me scripture that teaches justification means to outwardly show others you are righteous.
That is taught nowhere in scripture.

You need to stop making up definitions for the word justification.
You are inserting your ideas into the text.
You are speaking for James. Let James speak for himself.
James 2:24
James taught faith alone does not justify men.
Only faith and obedience to God, can one be justified by God, James 2:21
Hebrews 5:8-9
Only the saved are justified.
James makes works a condition that must be met in order to be justified.
Therefore no one is saved says James unless one has a obedient faith.

You need to show where James taught faith alone is not dead.
Give the passage.

 

[PinSeeker]

@PinSeeker @BloodBought 1953 @Taken @mailmandan @Eternally Grateful @JohnPaul @Ezra

So you have the promise of eternal life that cannot be lost huh?

What does scripture say?

“And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.” (1 John 2:25)

Well, you can come short of it:

“Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.” (Hebrews 4:1)

You don’t get it until after you have done the will of God:

“For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.” (Hebrews 10:36)

So go and sin no more or:

“bear your iniquities… and ye shall know my breach of promise.” (Numbers 14:34)

God does not break His promises. All the promises of God find their Yes in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 1:20). And to carry that passage on, it is God who establishes all of us in Christ, Who has anointed us, and Who has also put His seal on us and given us His Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee (2 Corinthians 1:21-22). I'll just quote the whole passage and leave it at that:

• "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Whom we proclaimed among you, Silvanus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No, but in Him it is always Yes. For all the promises of God find their Yes in Him. That is why it is through Him that we utter our Amen to God for His glory. And it is God Who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and Who has also put His seal on us and given us His Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."

As for your citation of Numbers 14:34 above, I mean absolutely no offense by this or to put you off in any way, but the antiquated language of the King James Version can be quite hard to understand. The English Standard Version (ESV) is much clearer:

• "According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, a year for each day, you shall bear your iniquity forty years, and you shall know my displeasure."

The Israelites, in grumbling against the Lord, had not believed His promise. And this is exactly what the King James Version is saying.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

You cannot show me a single verse of Scripture that says Gentiles are members of the new covenant.

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.​

Luke 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Yes it is in the King James Version of the Bible.....No it is not in the scriptures......One of many false beliefs that the King James Version has caused.

WHAT??!!!

So fornication is good?

Wow, new Bibles accommodate this generation well.

[shakes head]

 

[Michiah-Imla]

• According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, a year for each day, you shall bear your iniquity forty years, and you shall know my displeasure."

The Israelites, in grumbling against the Lord, had not believed His promise. And this is exactly what the King James Version is saying.

Nope. The KJV says “breach of promise”.

New Bibles suit all kinds of heresy!

[shakes head]

 

[Happy Trails]

A covenant IS a Promise Given of God TO particular men and the men AGREE to Abide by Gods Word TO receive What God Promised. A covenant is a contract between two parties. "Abiding by God's Word to receive what God promised" is an obfuscation. The covenant says, "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

In the OT, men were Promised Forgiveness of their SINS, by making a SIN OFFERING, of animal BLOOD, (according to Gods Order and Way)
Hebrews and Tribesmen were GIVEN that Promise and Agreed to that Promise. No. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. They only served as a reminder that the death penalty was owed. The promise was that a Messiah would come and deliver YHVH's people to the Promised Land.

In the NT, men are Promised Forgiveness of their SINS, by ACCEPTING Jesus’ BLOOD “sin Offering” ( according to Gods Order and Way)
ALL men Hebrews, tribesmen, Gentiles were GIVEN that Promise and those that AGREE, shall receive the Promise Given OF God, Through Jesus, BY the Holy Spirit.

Gentiles INCLUSION, was expressly, a SERVICE given and agreed to be accomplished BY Jesus’ Choosing His Servant (Saul/Paul), and Jesus’ Servant (Saul/Paul’s) Agreement to perform the Service. If they accept Jesus' blood for their sins, they are accepting the terms of the covenant., That means they are no longer Gentiles. Ephesians 2:11-22. "In time past you were called Gentiles and aliens from the commonwealth of Israel. You were strangers to the covenant of promise. Now, through Jesus you are NO LONGER a stranger. You are now a FELLOW CITIZEN WITH THE SAINTS. You are now a member of Israel.

Luke 22:20
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. Only Jews were there.

Matt 12:
[18] Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. How is "showing judgment to the Gentiles" including them in a covenant. He is JUDGING them!

You quoted 3 verses that say nothing about a covenant of any kind.

IF you require the wisdom of a toddler, to comprehend the understanding of Covenant, get a toddler Bible. If you were an adult, you wouldn't have to insult people to feel better about your own shortcomings.

IF you have the wisdom of an adult, look, read, learn what a Covenant is and you should be able recognize WHEN a Covenant is being spoken of IN Scripture, without the toddler reminder....of repeatedly reading...
Covenant, covenant, covenant.....ALL covenants are contracts. "If you obey my commandments, I will be your Elohim. I will write my Law on your hearts and you will be my people." You want the benefits without fulfilling your part of the deal. That is called theft.

IF you are over 5 and still stumbling....get a teens student Bible.[/QUOTE]

 

[Happy Trails]

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.​

Luke 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.​

Ephesians 2:11 In TIME PAST you WERE called Gentiles. The rest of the chapter explains why they are no longer Gentiles.

There were only Jews at the Last Supper.

 

[ScottA]

Ephesians 2:11 In TIME PAST you WERE called Gentiles. The rest of the chapter explains why they are no longer Gentiles.

There were only Jews at the Last Supper.

How is it that I gave you two verses and you only read or refer to one of them? You missed the connection between the two:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.​

 

[Taken]

If I misrepresented you, I apologize.
That is never my intention.

Thank you. No issue. All good.

Is there works involved for a lost sinner to be saved?

Works........to Believe.
Service......to Give your Life.

The thing is...
Every earthly born man HAS his own LIFE of his body, it’s called BLOOD.

EVERY earthly born man SHALL physically Die. An earthly mans BLOOD was not designed to last forever.
We know by observing men, if they loose too much blood, the body dies. If the blood does not operated as designed (continually flowing in the body), the body dies.

God Requires Every mankind of body TO DIE.
Not a secret. Revealed to mankind very early on.
Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

The Option for man...is Wait around (at some unknown time) for God TO TAKE the mans LIFE. OR for a man to make a decision, TO voluntarily, Freely Give his LIFE to God.

Service.....is a man, by his own FREEWILL, Giving his Life to God.
* there was Gods WAY in the OT for men under the Old Covenant to give their Life to God.
* there is Gods WAY for all men in the NT under the New Covenant to give their Life to God.

The man WHO chooses Gods WAY, to “freely Give” his life to God...
IS “Expressly Given a Particular Gift” from God, called Salvation.
ONCE a man IS Given that Particular Gift...(regardless of WHEN), that GIFT IS Never removed from that man.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Happy Trails]

How is it that I gave you two verses and you only read or refer to one of them? You missed the connection between the two:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.​

No. I didn't miss the connection. Read the rest of the chapter. You are pulling out a single line and saying that is all that matters. It says, plainly, that they were called Gentiles in the past. They were strangers. NOW, they are no longer strangers. Gentile = stranger. "You are no longer a Gentile."

The new covenant is with the houses of Israel and Judah. No Gentiles are included. You get grafted in, or you stay outside.