Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
why do you not research what those verses really say. They do not say what you think.
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
let me guess, Your another sinless perfectionist? Is this correct? You are more like a pharisee than like a tax collector?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Read John 3, John 4, John 5 John 6.
He who believes is not condemned.
He who does not believe is condemned already
which one are you?
What? Did Paul do nothing! Acts 9:6
Are you aware the gospel of Jesus Christ was not yet to be obeyed until ig was in force?
Read, Hebrews 9:15-17.
When did anyone have the ability to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ,
1Corinthians 15:1-4, Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:19.
The book of John are Jews still under the law of Moses.
We are not saved by like in the first four gospels.
You need to learn what the whole gospel that saves man involves.
Did Paul believe only to have his sins washed away?
Acts 22:16
Where in all the examples of conversions in the gospel of Jesus did folks do nothing to be saved?
Give me some scriptures?
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
It's a spiritual matter to understand this in the Bible, and it is not a teaching that that comes from men or a particular church denomination (that involves a big building with a one man pastor king). This is why I am strongly against the Church of Christ. They teach no grace. To them... everything is all works, works, works and no grace ever. I remember one time, they spoke from the Old Testament involving the Law of Moses. Then they stopped. That was it. No Jesus. No grace. This was not my first spiritually lifeless encounter with the Church of Christ. No offense if you are part of this church. It was just my experience with them on several occasions (with different locations and meetings).
There are two forms of being sanctified described in the Bible in relation to our salvation. You can call this one sanctification if you like, but the Bible describes two types of being sanctified that are clearly different.
“Being saved by God's grace” also includes our initial faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Ephesians 2:1), and can include components obviously like: Believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, seeking forgiveness with Jesus Christ by way of prayer saying the words “Lord Jesus” (or similar equivalent) (Romans 10:13) (Romans 10:9), and asking the Lord Jesus to come into your life (or receiving Jesus) (John 1:12).
When a person is saved by God's grace they are forgiven of their past sins, the Holy Spirit regenerates their heart, mind, and soul to be new on a spiritual level. They are radically changed. They are born again. They will have a love, joy, and peace that they have never known before.
In other words, they are sanctified or made clean by the Holy Spirit after they are saved by God's grace in their receiving or acceptance of Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. I am not denying this. I only mention for brevity's sake that we are saved first by God's grace, and we enter the Sanctification Process to live a holy life. Sanctification in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, or 1 Thessalonians 4:3 is a secondary aspect of salvation that follows AFTER being saved by God's grace. It is living a holy life by the power God working in you.
This is also called...
Progressive Sanctification:
Here are the verses:
#1. 2 Corinthians 7:1 KJB
“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
#2. Philippians 1:6 KJB
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”
Context:
“And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;” (Philippians 1:9) (KJB).
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13) (KJB).
“That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15) (KJB).
“And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;” (Philippians 1:9) (KJB).
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13) (KJB).
“That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15) (KJB).
#3. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 KJB (Part 1)
“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 KJB (Part 2)
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
#4. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJB
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
#5. 1 John 3:3 KJB
“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
Context:
“For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).
“For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).
#6. Ephesians 5:25-27 KJB
“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
Context:
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19).
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19).
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).
#7. Hebrews 13:20-21 KJB
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen”
#8. Colossians 4:12 KJB
“Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.”
#9. 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJB
“And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.”
#10 Revelation 3:2 KJB
“Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.”
#11. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJB
“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
#12. Hebrews 12:14 KJB
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord”
#13. Titus 2:14 KJB
“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
#14. 1 John 2:5 KJB
“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”
#15. James 1:21 KJB
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
#16. 2 Timothy 2:21 KJB
“If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.”
#17. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 KJB
“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”
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I can create my own gospel also by cherry picking verses and ignoring others.
John 3:16 I think I will add this to a man made gospel.
Now since it says nothing about repentance,
I guess I will believe I don't have to repent to be saved.
That is what you are doing with the chapters in John.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
My friend. Everyone in all time has been saved by grace through faith.
You can't earn salvation..
You want to be like the tax collector or like the pharisee?
Jesus spoke the gospel. to all of us. to you and me..
He did not teach a different gospel.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So Jesus is a liar.
Hew told nicodemus how to be born again, But he lied.
ps. No one will do what Jesus said in John 3 UNLESS THE REPENT.
What church are you in? Romans 16:16.
Here is a well respected Preacher friend of mine,
He is 90 years old.
This is his book on how God saves us,
Quote:
"The divine side of in salvation:
God sent his Son: John 3:16
God bestowed His grace: Ephesians 2:8-9
Jesus shed His blood: Ephesians 1:7
The HS revealed Gods will to man: Ephesians 3:3-5
Now what were you saying about we dont teach the grace of God saves us?
You do not know what we teach of you think we don't believe in Grace.
Fact is I already corrected you on this error.
Are you going to make false accusations?
Here is a well respected Preacher friend of mine,
He is 90 years old.
This is his book on how God saves us,
Quote:
"The divine side of in salvation:
God sent his Son: John 3:16
God bestowed His grace: Ephesians 2:8-9
Jesus shed His blood: Ephesians 1:7
The HS revealed Gods will to man: Ephesians 3:3-5
Now what were you saying about we dont teach the grace of God saves us?
You do not know what we teach of you think we don't believe in Grace.
Fact is I already corrected you on this error.
Are you going to make false accusations?
Why did the Jews after hearing the gospel preached by Paul believe then repent and be baptized?
Is that what Nicodemus did? If God told the Jews in Acts 2 to do things to be saved, that he did not tell others. Then there is more than one gospel unto salvation.
You ever heard about the baptism of John? That baptism was for the forgiveness of sins,
Mark 1:4-5.
Then came Jesus baptism. That is a different time, under a different covenant.
Do you get baptized in John the Baptist baptism today in Jesus' gospel?
They were back in Nicodemus' times.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol.
Baptism of the spirit saves, Not baptism in water. Water baptism no more saved you than circumcision saved a jew.
I would be careful about attributing the work of God to man
Ok,
Mark 1:4-5
Now is this Holy Spirit baptism?
What element did they immerse themselves in for the forgiveness of sins?
What did the Eunch and Philip go down into in Acts 8:37-38?
Since there is one baptism in Jesus gospel, Ephesians 4:5,
Which baptism did the Eunch do?
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I addressed this point within this thread here (and in my following subsequent posts that follow it).
You said:
I believe Luke 18:9-14. However, we must keep in mind that there is no indication to whether the tax collector was being Initially Saved by God's grace or whether he stumbled into sin and he sought forgiveness (in a generic sense) of his sins. In either case, it's a parable showing God's grace.
The problem with the Pharisee is that he did not believe in God's grace at all. It's sort of like the Church of Christ. They are all work, work, work, work, and work. And then some work. There is no grace. I believe that we are initially saved by God's grace, and if a believer on rare occasion stumbles into sin, they can confess of that sin to be forgiven of that sin. That's God's grace and not works (Although the Church of Christ will call this grace a form of works on our part). So no. I don't believe the Pharisee who condemned the Tax Collector was correct. The Pharisee was all about Law and no grace. But that does not mean that the rest of the Bible does not teach a secondary aspect of salvation that deals with the Holy Spirit helping us to go through the Sanctification Process to live a holy life (as a part of God's plan of salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13).
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree. Water baptism does not save. God's grace saves a person when they first come to the Lord. Spirit baptism is the result of being saved by His grace. This is what saves.
Water baptism is spiritual.
It is not like taking a bath, 1Peter 3:20-21.
We come in contact with the blood of Christ in our baptism,
Raised to newness of life ie born again from baptism,
Romans 6:1-11
Faith only does not get us regenerated,
Only way to get into Christ is to be water Immersed.
Galatians 3:26-27.
All of these verses are water baptism not Holy Spirit.
Man baptizes man. The Holy Spirit does not need a man to do the baptizing.
Jesus's great commission commands His disciples to do the baptizing,
Matthew 28:19 ; Mark 16:15-16.
Jesus' gospel is water baptism for the remission of sins,
Acts 2:38,
Consult Greek scholars.
Write them, etc.
Ask what baptism is Galatians 3:26-27 ; Acts 2:38 ; Mark 16:15-16 ; Actd 22:16
Romans 6:1-11
Thayer teaches all those verses are water. Not Holy Spirit
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
God sanctifies a person's heart, mind, and soul when they are born again by the Spirit.
After they are saved and born again spiritually (changed radically), then they enter the kind of sanctification of the Spirit to be cleansed or sanctified by the washing of the Water of the Word (Ephesians 5:25-27).
After they are saved and born again spiritually (changed radically), then they enter the kind of sanctification of the Spirit to be cleansed or sanctified by the washing of the Water of the Word (Ephesians 5:25-27).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I debated this topic many times before on another Christian Forum.
Check out my biblical write up here on the issue.
Sanctification is cleansing to be made Holy immediately, Hebrews 10:10.
Faithfulness is required to remain holy, sanctified,
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